Sway Bars

[Smikey]

Lads and ladies,
Any experiences or recommendations about sway bars. I've heard about the Whiteline rear sway bar, but isn't it more effective to have a front sway bar rather than the rear in a front wheel drive car :?:

Does anyone know the path to enlightenment... and the answer to this question too.

[KittyKatSmack]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, one of my favourite subjects.......

All the guys will be smiling about now because I rave about my rear.... swaybar that is!

One of the easiest (although Tony might disagree, damned bolts!) simplest, cost effective mods you can do to your Astina with IMMEDIATE results!

As soon as you hit the first corner you feel the difference.

I have not lowered my car nor have I got big wheels on it (tinky winky 14" alloys that are just soooooooo cute! :wink: ) but the sway bar really did the job in correcting the understeer.

As we know, our Astina's can really have issues on corners, especially if we want to put the boot in and have a bit of fun.

They tend to put the nose down and lift the back leg.... for want of a better descriptive!
The rear swaybar keeps that back end solid!

For $150 it is money well spent!!!

GO FOR IT!!!

:D

[Rupewrecht]

what the bouncer said!

handling-wise, adding the Whiteline rear swaybar is one of the best and easiest mods to do :)

greater response on turn-in, flatter cornering and slightly higher grip levels

[BigBoyLemonade]

You mean aaron... My attention span isnt that great when pictures of my arse are being taken...

[Aaron]

*laughs* It was a joint effort....

Stiffen rear, make front grip (camber kit) and you'll tend towards oversteer... How? Basically what you're doing is letting th car 'lean' on the front tyres more while letting both inside and outside wheel get a fair share of grip despite roll and controlling the body roll with the rear of the car. which does tend to decrease the total grip across the back end....

If you stiffen the front end it'll tend to slide more as the grip goes away on the inside tyre much more quickly....

It's easy to explain with a toy car ;)

FWD and RWD respond in the same way except the big change is how the grip is changed by motive power (right boot).... On RWD you can pretty much control rear grip with throttle hence stiffing front is usually quite effective....

[KittyKatSmack]

I still have that pic of you handling your sausage too!
:shock:

We should do that again real soon!

Especially as Andy has us the best location for it, we need a nice group shot along the shoreline before Aaron gets his version of a BA.......

:wink:

[Pernod]

One thing that has been puzzling me, is this a 'do at home' sort of job, or is it best left to the pros (If so, any guess at time required for them to do it?)

What size sway bars are you guys putting in (ie, 16mm?)? Any part numbers etc for the whiteline bar (I'm not sure what I can get in NZ...? so any ideas would be great!)

[BigMal]

Hey Pernod.
Its a 20mm rear swaybar. The standard is 16mm. It is a do it
yourself job as there is no adjustment needed its just a bolt on and
forget. As everybody has already advised the effect of adding a rear
swaybar is to push weight off the rear to the inside front under
cornernering increasing grip and decreasing understeer.

Regards

Mal

[KittyKatSmack]

Somewhere in the Cruises thread is the Canberra CAI day, that is the same day my swaybar got done matey.....

there was also someone else asking me the same question about the part number for the sway bar..... can't remember what thread it is in though, just go to whiteline website and punch in your car details. They will tell you the part number that way!

It's all good!!!

:D

[Smikey]

Thanks for the info peoples, thanks Aaron for the explanation, and Kitty and Rupe for the benefits... ummm sausage? better not inquire too much about that.

I read complaints about rattling after fitting this bar?

[Pernod]

Thanks for the help guys!

My only question now is why have I been putting this off for so long for the sake of only $200??? :) :wink:

[mrpayner]

Yes.. the part number is in the Performance Part spreadsheet that I have in the General Discussion topics.. It's one of the sticky threads..

If You can't see it send me a PM and I'll email it to you..

Cheers
AP

[KittyKatSmack]

There is no rattling coming from my rear thankyou very much!!!!!

Can't figure how if you are putting a stiffer bar on in place of an existing bar, how you can get rattles? Unless someone isn't tightening something??

Honestly, when you get underneath your car and have a look at where your existing swaybar sits, and think about when you replace it with a slightly thicker swaybar, where can it rattle?

I can't see it myself, but I could be wrong.... has been known to happen.... once I think..... :wink:

[BigMal]

No rattles, maybe squeeks if you dont use enough grease on the bushes.
You are not thinking about lowered springs and the clunks from bolts
hitting the sways/body from the drop in height are you ??

Regards

Mal

[mrpayner]

Ah.. make sure you use the whole packet of grease/lube when you install it.. I had the dude put the sway bar on when it was jacked up for the lowering coils and I believe he didn't use the whole packet.. I believe it's the sway creaking at the bushes.. I need to get under there and have a look.. :shock:

AP

[joely]

I've heard that swaybars can make your car a bit tricky in the wet is there any truth there or is it just when you are going flat out through turns???

[Cosmo Dude]

I've heard that swaybars can make your car a bit tricky in the wet is there any truth there or is it just when you are going flat out through turns???

Anything you do to the suspension will change the way the car handels (wet or dry), even tyre preasure. When you make a change you should tread lightly untill you're on top of it.

Rod

[KittyKatSmack]

As the Kitty learnt when hitting the famous Canberra roundabouts....

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

all good, nothing to see here, move along ......

like they say, you get used to anything and everything.... and this is no exception.

And it is a whole lotta grin factor when you realise just what you CAN do on the corners with a stiffer back end......

Giddyup!!!

[Rupewrecht]

I've heard that swaybars can make your car a bit tricky in the wet is there any truth there or is it just when you are going flat out through turns???

only if you increase swaybar size dramatically. uprating the standard one to the whiteline makes the car slightly twitchier and more responsive to directional changes, but too much larger would make the car more prone to swapping ends under braking, from what i understand

[BigMal]

Cars tend to underster into the corners and oversteer out. By increasing
the rear swaybar and increasing front grip you decrease the understeer
but it doesn't change the oversteer so if you are not carefull you get the
kitty syndrome of oversteering in the corner and whal-la you are facing
the people that were driving behind you.
Definetely take it carefull driving till you get used to how the modification
has changed the performance of your car. That should be a guideline for
any modification.

Regards

Mal

[jcywong]

absolutely agree
i put the sway bar on in the morning, forget to adjust tyres, well what's next, totaled my car at night........
:cry: :cry:

[Toyboy]

By adjust do you mean a wheel alignment or tyre pressures :?:
Is a wheel alignment needed after fitting a new rear swaybar :?: Cause ill be purchasing 1 soon and i only had my car wheel aligned a few weeks ago :?

[pr1mo]

theo,
no wheel alignment is required after changing swaybars :) not to my kowledge anyways :)

cheers mike

[Toyboy]

And youd know wouldnt ya,your the wheel alignment KING :lol:

[pr1mo]

bah 7 times in 12 months isnt that many :lol:

[Cosmo Dude]

A swaybar doesn't change the geometry of the suspension; only control the movement of the existing components.
An annual wheel alignment wouldn't be a bad idea anyway.

Rod

[KittyKatSmack]

Several points from my end... rear end???? :shock:

er....

Firstly, as Cosmo says, you don't need wheel alignment when doing rear swaybar... (K) to Rod! :)

Secondly, I didn't make myself very clear about the changes when the swaybar is fitted.
The "experience" I had on the roundabouts was in the wet. With the standard swaybar on the roundabouts, and the understeer, you usually give the steering wheel a good hoik (spelling?) to keep your line with speed on a roundabout....
First time I did this with a stiff back end in the wet made for a rollercoaster ride that was a TON O FUN!
Now I do it for grin factor (under controlled saftey conditions only of course......... :shock: )
But in dry conditions, there was no loss of control and an enormous increase in directional control with speed..... :D :D :D :D
It's a case of getting used to being able to take the corners harder and faster without the understeer holding you back.
Certainly I agree with Mal in building up to it, and adapting to your mods....
I am just mad and drive like a lunatic nowadays!
LOL
Must admit I do not know how the swaybar will change cornering ability in a car that is lowered already..... and will be interested to hear how different people with different modification levels on their cars find the addition of the swaybar.

So far though, it's been all good for me.
No problems, no knocking, no alignments or other work of any kind required due to the addition of the swaybar.
No drawbacks in cornering, no uneven tyrewear, and no loss of performance.






Added at least 15kw's....... joke!!!!!
;)

[mrpayner]

And another note.. as I was under the rear end of my car this morning loosening the sway to re-grease.. i noticed that the dumbarse who put it on for me [i didn't do it] has put it on the wrong way! :shock: The little kink in the middle of the bar is facing upwards and therefore rubbing on three parts of the under carridge, hence the creaking noise! Make sure the kink is facing DOWN!

And seeing as the rattle gun did up the bolts on those little arms super tight, I can't get the bastards off now!

My whinge for the weekend :(

AP

[Toyboy]

Thats ****ed,was it a proper suspension place that did it,or just the local mechanic :?:

[mrpayner]

Heh.. sure is stupid! I got it all done at The Tyre Factory @ Sunshine [West side of Melb.].. I was thinking about just taking it down to Mazda and going "Hey! Can I borrow your hoist and a rattle gun for 5 minutes?", but somehow I don't think they would let me do it. :lol:

AP

[SFC01]

Anyone fitted a Whiteline bar to a BJ? I've fitted mine and the difference is pretty profound!

The only thing that I found is that there is opportunity for interference between the bar and the aft lateral link at full droop. I'm pretty sure that is is installed the right way round :oops: it only took me a few goes to get it right - I've got the "legs" from the sway bar going around the underside of the aft lateral link. Couldn't get it to meet the links the other way (and I even looked at the kink upsidedown method as well). I ended up having to take up about 15mm of droop travel to get the ba$tard in place.

Anyone else have this kind of experience or am I pioneering the way to a new moronic frontier??

[edskii]

hey guys is there any disadvantages of having a sway bar intall in the rear???
cost is around 120-200 mark is that including labour??
thanks

[Toyboy]

Ive recently ordered a rear swaybar for my car,cause of all the good things ive been hearing :wink:
Im just a little worried about it hitting my cannon muffler but,guess ill find out when i go to install it :?

[SFC01]

As an update I was inadvertantly supplied the incorrect part for my car - the correct part is a direct geometric match for the factory unit.

My thanks go to Wotjek at Whiteline for his efforts in chasing down my problem (and the replacement adjustable sway bar :P )

For those who are looking it is Whiteline part number BFR59 which fits the facelifted BJ Astina's not the BFR52 (which is in the current swaybar catalog for BJ's)

[Rupewrecht]

For those who are looking it is Whiteline part number BFR59 which fits the facelifted BJ Astina's not the BFR52 (which is in the current swaybar catalog for BJ's)

Adam - you might want to add this to your spreadsheet :)

[mrpayner]

So I take it that the BFR59 is for the BJII?

AP

[SFC01]

So I am lead to believe if facelifted BJ = BJII.

Mine should arrive today and I will confirm. The BFR52 does physically fit, but as I said earlier it makes contact with the rear lateral link at full droop.

[CityEnd]

i got a few questions abt this topic.

can anyone tell me what the difference is between the rear sway bar under the car as opposed to the stock rear sway bar on the j-spec which is located above, like how the front sway bar is usually place?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/cityend/cars/astina/japspecbar.jpg

most of you have suggested there is a profound difference, what would happen if i were to remove it, would the hatch be harder to drive? i was thinking of putting it into the hardtop.

and that leads to the next question, would the rear sway bar make a big difference in the hardtop as it already has a hard parcel shelf?

[Rupewrecht]

Chris - thats a rear Strut Tower Brace, not a sway bar :)

and it would have minimal effect on the HT for the reason you stated - the solid parcel shelf. and you'd have to hack your interior to get it into place.

[SFC01]

Ummm. That is a strut brace, not a sway bar. :roll: :wink:

You would most likely notice a difference in handling should you remove/install it but nothing as profound as fitting an aftermarket bar.

BTW I have fitted the Whiteline BFR59Z into my BJII and put it on the stiffer setting (22mm effective bar diameter compared with 16mm stock). :P Now that is a difference! Starting to get a little bit of lift off oversteer though, something to keep an eye on - although with the decreased tendency to understeer the apex's are a little easier to hit at speed so less need to lift off.

Highly recommended

[CityEnd]

hahahaha, oops sorry guys.. =)

[Pernod]

Cityend - trust me on this but its better to make this mistake on here rather than in a shop - I'm sure the guys had a great laugh at my expense :lol:

[mrpayner]

Alright.. I finally managed to get the nut off the arm on my sway bar [with a little help of the cool guy at Mazda who's got a **** hot BJ Protege].. and it's finally on the RIGHT way! :roll:

Here's a pic of the rub marks where it was contacting at the 3 points on the under carriage..

http://www.amihotornot.com.au/album/photos/18162-20031014191655.jpg

Changed it over this afternoon when I got it home.. As Dan said to me in a SMS message.. FINALLY! :lol:

AP

[jcywong]

how much you get for the adjustable bar?
and does this come with the full kit??

whiteline quote me 242 and 172 for non-adjust one
that's too expensive man...

[Cosmo Dude]

I can see how the bar could go on up-side-down. Mine is about 25mm off center, I'll fix it on Thursday as I'm sure it would have an effect no matter how minimaly.

Rod

[SFC01]

how much you get for the adjustable bar?
and does this come with the full kit??


I'm assuming that you are referring to me about this. I originally purchased the BFR52 from Bursons for $136.40.
Whiteline were then generous enough to exchange it for the BFR59Z (adjustable) at no cost (I think primarily because I contacted Whiteline direct to originally get the correct part number).

The bar is adjustable in that there are two alternate sets of holes to fix the links to - other than that it is identical in geometry to the factory bar (apart from being fatter and a lot heavier)

I'd suggest looking at purchasing from a large parts chain as they do have some buying power. :wink: