Upgrading V6 Brakes

[RedLineResident]

Hi everyone,

Now before i get flamed, i just want to say that i have done a search and have come accross nothing in regards to upgrading the V6 brakes any further.

Im looking at just installing some slotted rotors for the front and the back, and have looked into DBA's 4000 series. Trouble is, they don't make anything for the V6 in that range. All they do is the standard street stuff. Don't really want to be spending money on standard stuff unless i have to.

Does anyone know of any other brand that does slotted disks for the V6. I don't want to be doing anything custom, or getting Brembo big brake kits or anything like that, because that is obviousl expensive.

Also the current rotors i have are very badly warped. Im affraid to even drive it at the present. Any braking over 70km/h and the whole car shakes violently. I don't really want to get them machined because im affraid that the same will happen to them again.

Im really after the next step.

I know that i can get the standard rotors and get them slotted, but i don't know where to go to get that done, and how well that will work. Is that fairly common practice and how easy is it to get something like that done?

Also will that provide me with the equal quality of the product, or will there be a significat difference?

Anyone done something like this before?

Could anyone recommend any brands?

Any suggestions, advice or help would be greatelly appreciated.

Cheers,

Miki

[Putonyourshoes]

there is a place in Europe that does cross drilled rotors for the v6. i think its fordprobestore or something like that (ill look later) but i havnt heard of anyone using them, im also interested in doing this, i dont think it would cost that much to have the original rotors drilled and slotted but you never know:)

[Rupewrecht]

RDA do slotted - ask GSL

[RedLineResident]

don't really want cross drilled.

rule of thumb is you don't use cross drilled on the track. thats what most people have said to me, and even on the DBA website, when you select cross drilled it tells you that its not intended for track use.
to me that suggests that they won't really get along with my driving, hence im only looking at slotted.

ive got a quote today, i think it was RDA that was doing them and i was quoted $250 front, $260 back. So $510 for all 4.

Not a bad deal, just not sure if RDA are any good.

anyone heard any feedback on RDA?

[Putonyourshoes]

not intended for track or road use?:S

[RedLineResident]

http://www.dba.com.au/product_search_dev.php

when you go to their 4000 Range

slotted it says for road or track use

cross drilled it says (for street use only)

don't know why, but im not willing to experiment and find out.

besides my brake rotor diameter isn't big enough to be able to pull of the AMG cross drilled look. it will look too try hard and i don't particularly want that.

[mike_d87]

If you get the rotors machined the will only warp again if you make them. It will work as an interim until you can find the rotors that suit you.

[RedLineResident]

im aware of that

ill just keep the old girl parked until i get the rotors.

convenience of it not being a daily is fantastic.

this is why im taking my time, making sure i get exactly what i want.

[Astro Boy]

ive got a quote today, i think it was RDA that was doing them and i was quoted $250 front, $260 back. So $510 for all 4.
That's sounds a bit too much... working off old pricing (won't have changed too much, but I'll call them tomorrow), fronts should be about $215 for the pair, and the rears about $235 for the pair.

As for pads, I've got a set of Front QFM HPX on the shelf, $75, all the performance of either Lucas or Bendix Ultimates, but without the dust and rotor wear respectively of the other two. As for rears, just a normal set of QFM Super X, $40 if ya needed rears.

Also, don't forget that if you want a drilled style of rotors, RDA do the gold passivated slotted and dimpled for the V6, no idea on price, but can give them a bell tomorrow...

Fluid, race stuff $55 for 1L, or else $7 for Dot 4 from your local servo...

[RedLineResident]

ill want the fluid, and i will want lucas performance for the rear. ive already got the lucas performance fronts ready to go in.

Im not looking for drilled rotors, im just after slotted ones.

thanks for that astro,

edit: ill be looking at doing this after tax time, and also; is RDA any good? i mean honestly?

if i run in the rotors and pads in propery before i start putting them through hell, will they be fine and not warp or distort. ive heard mix things about RDA and i don't know who to believe.

[Astro Boy]

and also; is RDA any good? i mean honestly?
In the nearly 18 months I've been doing this, I've probably sold 300 pairs of RDA rotors (I supply the rotors to Torque Ford, a big Ford dealership), and ONE (yep, ONE pair) of DBA rotors. Nothing has come back...

ive heard mix things about RDA and i don't know who to believe.
I'd say I'm pretty in touch with the auto world atm, and all I keep hearing is DBA's cracking, and nothing about RDA's. The only problem I've ever personally heard about an RDA rotors was significant run-out on a hub rotor, but this was down to improperly installed bearings...

We run RDA slotted in the rally car, as do about the 30 people I've sold rotors to on here.

[RedLineResident]

easy.

if all goes according to plan, you'll get a PM from me in about 6-8 weeks.

i greatelly appreciate your help. you've been great.

[dave0r]

i understand you can upgrade the V6 brakes with that of the mazda MPS 3

315mm or something like that
believe its a simple caliper and rotor swap
could be worth looking at

[RedLineResident]

hmmm.

i just have my fears that it sounds all simple, but i don't want to run into a million problems down the track.

[Aaron]

I have my doubts about the MPS/Mazda3 swap... Next time Bear or DB0984 drop over we'll try to take some measurements of the caliper mounts. However I can confirm the rotors will fit on the v6 hubs...

I have something else in the works as the Mazda3/Mazda6 stuff is exxy. I do also have access to a recent generation (Mazda3 platform) Focus to go and measure off as well..

In short just buy the RDA stuff from Astro, once you can outdrive them and have killed them there will be something a lot better around.....

A.

[Cosmo Dude]

I'm currently looking down a different path but my parts list isn't as light (weight) as Aarons' and some of the parts are less common.
My 'stina needs a lot of money spent on it ATM and replacing the perfectly serviceable brakes isn't an immediate priority.

[Aaron]

My 'stina needs a lot of money spent on it ATM and replacing the perfectly serviceable brakes isn't an immediate priority.

Amen to that problem. MNine are "mostly" serviceable unlike the suspension and the exhaust.

A.

[Aaron]

I have something else in the works as the Mazda3/Mazda6 stuff is exxy. I do also have access to a recent generation (Mazda3 platform) Focus to go and measure off as well..

I know quoting myself is bad form - but took a pic today to give an idea on what I'm working on.

These will be grabbed by twin piston calipers....

A.

[Putonyourshoes]

this might sounds a little daft. but will the calipers fit inside?:P

[Rupewrecht]

this might sounds a little daft. but will the calipers fit inside?:P

I bloody well hope so ;)

[RedLineResident]

looks like a tight squeeze

[rodhog]

You could fit PBR - HSV group A - that I run same setup on my mx-6 I made mine fit into 16's - but they ended up rippign off the balancing weights - even after some grinding.

Or you can use latter model VT type twin piston calipers.


Oh and as for your original issue on brakes - You know you can get stock rotors SLOTTED - be a machine or tool making shop. I can do my own if I had time.

IMO stock V6 brakes are over kill on BA. But they need good pads. I loved my stock pads as it was perfect for all round. They jsut cost a bit from mazda if you get the Japanese ones - Not the Thailand ones.

[Putonyourshoes]

i would like bigger brakes on mine.
i was slowing down from about 150 the other day and the stopping power up until i got down to about 100 was a little slow. but it still stops better than most cars. can you post pics of this hsv brake set up rod?

[RedLineResident]

150 - 100?

what do you mean slow? I wipe of speed super quickly if im going faster than 100.

But i do have lucas pads and i tend to hit the brakes pretty hard so that may help. BTW that also leads to warped rotors :D

[Putonyourshoes]

yeah 150-100km/h.
im on stock pads all round. how much do lucas pads go for?
it doesnt feel like its gripping like it should at 150. (all done on a track or private road of course) but yeah i want to feel the ABS kicking in at 150:P
hahaha
nah but in all seriousness if i want to increase braking is a good thing to start with pads?

[RedLineResident]

Lucas Performance cost me $96 for the front and i can't recall the what i got in the back.

I try and avoid having the ABS kick in. I think that if i can hold it on the very edge of hard braking WITHOUT ABS helping, i will actually stop quicker than with ABS.

Here's my reasoning; ABS pinches the brakes very quickly on and off (so it actually spends about 50% of the time applying the braking force to the wheels), so its only holding part time - where's if im braking without ABS then i am applying braking froce 100% of the time, not on and off. ABS is better than a locked slide, so its great for preventing uncontrolled locking, but i prefer to have it as a back up and actually brake with some precision and control.

And Lucas are fantastic, I highly recommend them, but they are a tad scary when you have no temparature in them and go for an all out stab at the brakes.

[Cosmo Dude]

Lucas Performance cost me $96 for the front and i can't recall the what i got in the back.
$80 to $90 per end, contact Astro his prices are very competitive. I recommend doing both ends at the same time it helps keep the braking balanced.
I try and avoid having the ABS kick in. I think that if i can hold it on the very edge of hard braking WITHOUT ABS helping, i will actually stop quicker than with ABS.

Here's my reasoning; ABS pinches the brakes very quickly on and off (so it actually spends about 50% of the time applying the braking force to the wheels), so its only holding part time - where's if im braking without ABS then i am applying braking froce 100% of the time, not on and off. ABS is better than a locked slide, so its great for preventing uncontrolled locking, but i prefer to have it as a back up and actually brake with some precision and control.
Your right that the best braking is just before the ABS kicks in but you're better having the ABS just ticking under foot, that way you know you've reached maximum braking.
ABS works on individual wheels, not even Michael Schumacher can do that!:eek: When you feel the ABS start to activate it's likely that it's only on one wheel loosing traction.

[RedLineResident]

4 wheel ABS is fantastic, but in the lude i find the front 2 wheels will lock for a very brief split second before the ABS takes over. And its always both wheels and unless my tire pressures are way out of whack it brakes very evenly.

I like the idea of having ABS as a back up, but in cars where the a slightly heavier braking foot sets it off, its bloody irritating, but i think the astina's have got it right.

I find the trouble with one wheel getting the ABS treatement is that the braking is thrown a bit out of balance and unless you are ready for it you find the car starting to wander around a bit. It isn't as posed as it is when ABS grabs both wheels on the axle.

[rodhog]

i would like bigger brakes on mine.
i was slowing down from about 150 the other day and the stopping power up until i got down to about 100 was a little slow. but it still stops better than most cars. can you post pics of this hsv brake set up rod?

Photo in my readerrides thing now.

BUt I doubt you have full factory pads if oyu have that issue. The full factory ones pull down the car from 160km/h no worries but NO one wants the DUST - THEY DUST.

sorry but Lucas pads would not get CLOSE. Seriously
But Cost wise yes you pay they work great range but I doubt you can even get them anymore here.

But you want ABs to kick in at 150km/h LOL that's funny
Becasue even with one car I saw recently - a WB UTE (was in Brute utes cover car recently 2 motnhs ago) - had to put ion a Vaccum pump- the Cams too BIG- no idle vacuum - the AP racing calipers were a bit well hard to get active. Now it's fine but even with all round 4 spots and large servo at max working. at 150km'h it woudl still only lock them up at say 100km/h Due to the weight but it would happen in a instant.

Braking is about control. And requiring to go from 150km/h to Zero is silly.
Even on the track you learn if a car spins out in front or suddenly misses a gear get react to pass or go around with limited or no brake use.
The same should apply to any driving. Totaly control.
yeah I speed over the limit every now and then but I if I see cosp or waht ever I wave as I go past.
No need to hit the brakes it's all about control.
The whole reason I did the mx-6 was not because of anything more then weight issue. Even though the Wagon I had and have now is only maybe 50Kg lighter then that time Mx-6. The car had the ability to go from 80-120km in 3 seconds especialy in auto original build 120-180km like that. but with 1400kg + of weight and brakes from 87 626? only 260mm or so.
It's the whole reason the Astina copped 270mm rotors was they knew the V6 was going to be used and it's not real light weight. Plus the competition.
The Ge 626 had it's same short coming but they never marketed it as sports type. It was also lighter and they revised the brakes system.

Oh and ABS is for people who can't brake well. I never relly on it.
The right pads and godo condition system and you got good feel it's all you need.
I'd love to remove it on my Mx-6. Reason I love my wagon no ABS. Get ****s when someone cuts in LOCK THEM UP behind them. Scares the **** out of them.

[Putonyourshoes]

hahahah i was being sarcastic about the 150k abs but im looking to increase braking. ill get some lucas pads before next service:)
cheers guyss
those brakes look mental rod. is it much work to get them going?
do you still have them?

[rodhog]

All real good brake upgrade rthat are custom - your looking at least $2000 or at least budget them.

Original plan was S4/5 calipers and rotors but very hard to get calipers mounted so this was the most effective soloution. I just sent car away can came back it was done.

Braking is all about Rotor size the bigger the rotor the more Leverage you get. The more stopping power.

Extra pistons just help spread the load. over all the current calipers carry same force as the small 4 spots.
The problem really is they are a noisy caliper. the latter VT's are better but don't offer same mouting ability at the then time. With my new current wheels I would think about 4 spot AP's but at Big $$$ and these things holding up well.
Problem is pad selection that was the first set of rotors.
I'm on my 2nd set due to cracking. Old pads were well too hard. Stopped excellent at 300+ temps but below that early mornings were long braking distances. Wash the car Use the hand brake. I once had foot to floor wet discs cold pads car rolled into garage door. Did not stop.