SP20 TURBO KITS

[IzzYTaP]

Hi Everyone,

After reading wiredone's (Doug's) posting on his Hiboost Turbo Kit installation, I thought I'd post the three kits I've been looking at and the cost of buying and importing from the US.

Check the websites for each kits inclusions.

All prices are based on the AUS$ buying USD$0.70 . Postage was costed on delivery to Canberra.

Buying a couple kits at a time may bring the price down.

HiBoost - www.hiboost.com/products.html :wink:
8psi Turbo Kit : USD$3995 AUD$5722
UPS Postage : USD$150 AUD$212
Subtotal : AUD$5934
Customs Duty 15% : AUD$890
GST 10% : AUD$682
TOTAL: AUD$7506

Wagner Motorsports - www.wagnermotorsports.net/products.php
6psi Turbo Kit : USD$3650 AUD$5230
UPS Postage : USD$150 AUD$212
Subtotal : AUD$5442
Customs Duty 15% : AUD$816
GST 10% : AUD$625
TOTAL : AUD$6883

Flyin Protege - http://flyinmiata.com/protege/tech/specs.asp
6psi Turbo Kit : USD$3595 AUD$5150
UPS Postage : USD$150 AUD$212
Subtotal : AUD$5362
Customs Duty 15% : AUD$804
GST 10% : AUD$616
TOTAL : AUD$6782

I personally would kill for the HiBoost kit!! :twisted:

Any comments ??

<:__IzzYTaP__:>

[Critter]

It is interesting to look at the kit options available to us from the States.

I can't help thinking that there ought to be a way to keep the costs down with some local sourcing of things we can get ourselves.

For example, the IHI turbo used in the HiBoost kit comes from Japan....via the U.S.....and we pay shipping half way across the globe twice, duties, handling, profit margin etc. same goes for any of the turbos.

Likewise, we have excellent quality sources here for intercoolers, custom pipe manufacturers etc etc so the price should be so much cheaper "doing it smart" so to speak.

The upside of the kits is, as wiredone says, installed in 2 days.

For me the issue is price for an imported kit fitted is exxy, putting the pieces together here takes time as plenty here have discovered.
Weeks become months, car is off the road, development yada yada......

So I am stuck in price vs down-time and mucking around, neither of which I am real happy with.....

The other issue is that the U.S. spec car is in fact not exactly the same, which concerns me a bit.

They run theirs on 91 octane with 9:1 compression, ours are 10:1 for minimum 95 octane....which leads to potential problems ie does the cooler work efficiently enough to avoid potential detonation at the higher compression given the pre-programming of the ECU mapping which is in fact for a different car?

All of that said, i am all for a real getting our heads together and working out a solution.

There are plenty of people here who have "been there done that" and sourced suppliers etc so that if we got organised and did a few installations all together we could come up with a good result IMO.

[wiredone]

hi there guys,
well this is how our decision on the hiboost kit went...

firstly is has fuel managment... which was a must as our cars need to be in differing environments and we need have the car prepared to take on the world... because a car that keeps stuffing around is a car that makes no profit as it is always in for warranty work...

the hiboost kit is also thekit we found to be the most complete. It comes with things that others charge for in the base model kit... FMIC, fuel management, boost controllers... etc. There is no point selling a kit for a couple of thousand dollars if it doesnt have the eww and ahh factor as well... i mean for the money your spending... it is also the one which runs more boost than others out of the box...

we have also heard very bad things about some of the other kits (not rumour mongoring) and in our opinion from what i have heard apart from the hiboost and the flyinprotege kit the rest don't look after the car too well. With stories of pistons blowing out... even before you blow a rocker... nasty! :(

answers:
- We have not found a problem with the intercooler found in hiboosts kit to have any problem avoiding detonation... if you were to run crappy fuel i cannot gurantee it will be very happy, it may ping, but that is the case for most off the shelf turbo cars... eg the WRX. This problem can usually be solved by upgrading the haltech F10 to a Haltech E6X so you can play with the timing... but our car runs the F10 on 98 octane fuel without a hitch...
- We have mapped the car here in australia... it is not the standard hiboost map, we have tuned it
- I'll also add for the record the Hiboost instructions are the not the best either... but we've re-written them... =)
- The Street Dreams/Hiboost kit is slightly different from the actual Hiboost kit, we have slightly modified some things so that it all fits in the car... So your paying for our development and tuning work as well

Although i must add that if anyone is bringing a non-hiboost kit into australia i'll be more than willing to help at any stage... not just a rep but an astina owner too :D

I will also add that if need be and someone wants us to bring in another turbo kit or any other part, we will be happy to try and get it at trade for you... but only if your a cool astinagt.com member

[Critter]

Thanks for that wiredone, cleared some stuff up really well. Onya.

I do a lot of travelling about the place and have had some trouble getting genuine 98 octane. The local BP only keeps the 95 stuff of the 2 grades they have, for instance....

Last year on a trip back from Adelaide, I had to buy regular unleaded when nearly dry as there was no premium to be had town after (infrequent :) ) town.....

When you live out of the city proper and do a lot of country driving, 98 octane is a fair dinkum problem.

I'm banging my head (and it doesn't need the damage....) coz with my car as it will shortly be, add some kw and it would be just PERFECT.......

[wiredone]

well i can tell you this very simply...
i have also filled up on the freeway with standard or 95/96....
as long as you dont hit full boost under load at 100% throttle your really not going to have trouble...

when we first finished putting the car together we had a full tank of crappy 7/eleven fuel in it.... and we drove it hard for 30 mins before it pinged and it did it so ever lightly we nearly all missed it... although the ECU didn't it retarded the timing and the car went kinda flat...

you shouldn't really get ping if you drive the car light... as your not putting it nder enough pressure... freeway driving shouldnt be an issue unless you put your foot flat to overtake up a hill and your in 5th

[Andrew_SP20]

I've spent a bit of time looking through the protege5 forums which are US based an discovered a few things... As far as i know, and i'm not professing to be entirely correct...

1. The engine the Americans got in their 'protege 5's' is identical to ours in spec other than missing the plastic rocker cover...

2. I spent time arguing about their fuel where they told me quite abruptly that their octane rating system differs from our RON system and that their 91/92 octane 'premium' unleaded is equivalent to our 98RON optimax and bp ultimate...


Also, i reckon if you ad up all the associated costs of building a custom turbo setup for our cars, i reckon the kits are pretty damn cheap!
1. Custom manifold - $800 - 1000
2. Second hand BB T28 Turbo - $800
3. Dump pipe - $200
4. All cooler piping - $1200
5. Piggy back computer + programming - $1000
6. Intercooler core - $800

APPROX. TOTAL - $5000 plus fitting work...

AND... that's using second hand components, no garauntee of performance gains, lots of time off the road, lots of extra dyno tuning time, custom made pipes look inferior etc etc etc.

I know what i'll be doing when i've got the cash... hiboost!

The way the USD is sinking at the moment the kits are getting cheaper by the day too!! hehehe

[Aaron]

Andrew is mostly spot on about the costs. A well thought out kit is ALWAYS going to be cheaper than DIY development unless you have a stack of mates in the trade and good access to bits. That's the same for anycar!

I'm sure wiredone will back this up - he has a kit, has mates int he trade and still has had to work at it a bit!

Kit's win thanks to pre made manifolds and having all the ancillary bits and pices in the right place first go without the need to test fabricate and refit 10 times to get somethings that's about right.

I and some other aussies worked on the Chrysler tot he point of getting together the bits to develop a turbo solution locally and by the time we'd sourced the parts (manifolds to cut up, sensors, ECU to contro the thing and a WRX turbo in top condition) we would have chewed through about $1K before having anything more than a set of intercooler brackets fabricated up and a cooler mounted into the front bar.

Add that to the high risk of grenading the first motor you build and well suddenly a $7K kit seems cheap.

[TDK]

Hi Wiredone,

I am a cool astinagt.com member, so I would like to take you up on that VERY generous offer of giving advice. At the moment I am looking at getting the SPOOL Stage 1 kit. The kit retails for US$2595. This kit includes the following:

-Race fabricated manifold
-High speed balanced Garrett turbo
-Fuel Management Unit pre set to proper fuel pressure levels
-02 signal modifier is included to prevent ECU fuel pull at partial throttle.
-Stainless steel braided oil lines with anodized fittings
-Turbonetics external wastegate
-Installation guide and support
-Pre gapped turbo spark plugs
-Healthy 2.5 inch race downpipe
-Forged Steel Manifolds with a 5 year warranty!
-Polished Stainless Steel Piping Tig welded
-Turbo Tuff Silicone Hoses
-Beefy Stainless Clamps

As you can see this kit doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the HiBoost kit has. I cannot afford to spend $8000-$10000 on a turbo kit. So I thought I would do it bit by bit. I Have a UniChip fuel management computer already installed, so I am going to get that taken out of the kit. So all up it should cost me about $3700 to get that kit into Aus. Then once I get some more money I will add something onto the system, i.e., intercooler. I know it would probably be a bit cheaper in the long run to get a complete kit now, but I cannot do that.

What do you think about this setup? Do you have any recommendations?

Thanks,
TDK

[wiredone]

i have heard some good things about the spool kit... no complaints yet i think... at least from the guys in the states... spool has a good reputation with protege5 owners so i can't see a problem there...

i would ask what fuel management they are using... because without being a complete party pooper unichips really do sweat f all when it comes to real ECU work... or so i have been told. Our Ecu guys worked at haltech for 8 years and installs every type of ecu under the sun, from autronics, microtech, power fc and everything else and he still swears by haltechs... and if it helps its an aussie company =)

there are usually some issues with all turbo kits coming from the states... there radiators believe it or not are abit thinner giving the turbo more room including downpipes. bit of modding and you should be right there though... there are a few other things that are different and can be sorted so pm if you have trouble

The thing i also like about the spool kit is like the hiboost, it is upgradable... they swear by there product and they do it so much that they trust you will come back and upgrade... thats usually a good thing... not some dodgy asian superstore selling altezza's

just my 2c.... value for money = good... obviously i am biased because we sell the hiboost kits and my car has one in it but.. each to there own... enjoy the boost if you buy it... the dark side spreads... :D

Aaron: i will back you up... between getting the kit here, modifying brackets, altering sensor layouts, and then retune upon retune upon retune to get it just perfect... risking the first engine... even with my best mate owning a shop... added up very very quickly... and obviously i wasn't paying labour, so god forbid if i was...
The main reason we put together the kit was... i bought an sp20 for the potential... got pissed off no one had an offering for us... so we created the offering... =) sp20 products driven by an sp20 owner... we sell eye lids for them... cause i got em made for my car... we're about to start seeling body kits etc for them... cause i want sp20's to look cool... obviously not become the next lancer with every wog and his dog driving one but cool in its own non-widespread kinds way... people still like my car when they see it and from the outside it nearly ( i say nearly ) looks stock... go the mazda astina owners! :lol:

[Critter]

Hmmm, boost...:)

I gotta drive that thing......

[wiredone]

come pay us a visit and take it for a drive....

=)

only if your not trying to avoid addiction...

i have been told by our other people who have come to test drive that the drive home is very slow...=p

[Andrew_SP20]

Wiredone: How long does the stock clutch hold up??

I know it would definately need upgrading with twice the engine power output, but that's another expense that everyone's gotta consider when getting a turbo...

How much is a decent clutch worth to hold down 200kW at the fly??

[TDK]

I DID IT!!!!! I placed an order for the Spool stage 1 kit. My pockets feel so much lighter. All up it was US$2950. That includes shipping and an upgraded Tial wastegate, but i didn't get the FMU.

Wiredone: the FMU that comes with the kit was only US$150, so i can't see it being a decent unit. The UniChip will have to do untill i can get my hands onto a Haltech computer. I didn't get the intercooler upgrade, i thought i might be able to source that from here. Do you sell a intercooler kit, if so how much. Also, i have already wrote down what comes in the kit. Do you reccomend any other bit i should get, i.e. Turbo timer, boost controller, boost gauge, etc. Remember though that i'm trying to this all bit by bit, so if it really isn't urgently needed then it's something i will get later. Thanks for you help. Are you going to have your car at the Auto Salon this weekend?

Thanks,
TDK

[wiredone]

i'd definitely get a turbo timer... just because the car wasn't designed to take boost so it needs all the love it can get... no sadly my cars plans for autosalon kinda fell through when money from work decreased... =( next may...

i would also straight away go to unichip and get the ecu retuned because it needs to run a totally different mixture, and cold start will be a completely different affair...
to drive the car before u get fuel mixture right go light and give it ten mins to warm up.... can never be too careful

well depending on the haltech your after i might have a deal for you soon... when i get the forgies and my haltech e6x you can have my f10....

its official though... you HAVE to meet up with me when its done... =) boost makes the world keep turning....

[TDK]

I called up Spool this morning and made some other upgrades to the Kit. I already mentioned the Tial wastegate, i also upgraded the BOV to the HKS Super Sequential BOV. I also got a Greddy 60mm electric boost gauge.

Once i get it in i would love to meet up. So once it's done i will get in contact with you, or we could even try to organise another meet because i haven't been on one yet.

Also, keep me in mind if you are selling anything, i.e. the f10.

Thanks.

[wiredone]

great... ok keep in mind im pretty sure the super sequential won't go past 10psi so if your thinking of keeping on goin it might not be an option... can't remember specifics... anyone back me up?

as i mentioned... you need help with anything don't hesitate to call us at the shop...

[JynX]

They have 2 valves in them. 1opens under low boost, 1 opens under high boost.

[preeman80]

Some one back there mentioned import duty 15%, is that for anything and everything? including my mate sending me stuff as a GIFT?

Now if I avoid import duties, it should be cheaper.

wiredone if I get the HIBOOST kit, how much to install it? and what other changes do I need to make, and btw wtf is going to be the deal with insurance?

[TDK]

If someone states that the package is a gift, then you won't be charged the tax. You can also get the sender to state that the cost of the package is much less then what you paid for it. For example, if you paid US$3000 for a kit the sender could write the price as $600. This means that if you get charged any taxes it will be on the $600 instead of the $3000. I got really lucky. The people down at Spool at FANTASTIC. I'm having my kit sent to my mechanic, which means that Spool can say that the package is a trade sample. This means that ABSOLUTELY no taxes will be charged to me.

Good luck

[preeman80]

TDK, what is the url for spool?

Also I did compare the flyin miata protege kit vs the Hi Boost kit, the power difference is huge? unless one is measuring from different point or are they both from the front wheels?

[TDK]

http://www.spool-turbo.com/SPOOL-TURBO.HTML

[preeman80]

lol.. spool-turbo.com.. should have seen that one coming :wink:

hmm.. now I am just straight out confused about value for money and performance bang! :?

[wiredone]

preeman80...
as far as avoiding import duties we can try and get juan from hiboost to lower the price on the invoice... although it kind of gets shady because it is our rep on the line if customs is unhappy...
we are the only authorised distributor of hiboost stuff in Aus, so i don't think juan will direct sell to you, as we have trade agreements (we had to set something in stone to make spending all the dev work and time on it worthwhile)

we install the hiboost kits for $1000 and you should get your car back in 2 business days, depending on how busy we are and if everything runs smooth...

insurance:
firstly to make the car 100% street legal you need to get the car engineered, we do not do engineering so you will have to find someone local... you can get the car insured without being engineered, but depending on how police are in your area you may have some long walks home

our car is insured with justcars insurance comprehensively and it cost $2600 a year and we have unlimited modifications....

[preeman80]

wiredone: Like I said some one in the states is going to buy it for me. So I am not buying it from them directly. As far as someone selling to me, I checked with them a long time ago, before I saw your car with HiBoost kit and they were ready to sell, but now, they prob changed that.

My friend in the states does owe me a favor and money, so I think the amounts should work out.

Can I ask if you are under 25 for the cost of 2600 a year?

Finally do you have the 0-100 time, 400m time? dyno chart? the figures? Let me know, thanks, if anything I would be seeing you guys early next year if everything is still good.

[wiredone]

hey there preeman80...
yes in answer to your question i am still under 25... so that is the price you should recieve

i must also add though that the $1000 install is for our kits... not the hiboost kits. When you buy a kit from us you already pay for the tuning for the ecu and the the modifications which make it easier to install... its all factored into the pricing. So we would have to charge more for the install as we would be giving your ECU a flash, adding our addons to the kits etc. which weren't originally there.

In the end it may be cheaper to just buy aussie made, because speaking to everyone down at the workshop we would have to price all the mods we have made and the hours of tuning and sell them to you as well as the $1000 install. =(

We would still be more than happy to install it for you but you have to keep in mind that when you pay for our kit your paying for all the work that has gone into it to make it work on aussie sp20's.

By the way for everyone who wants to know =) we're putting forgies in the car very soon... watch the mazda sp20 make a name for itself... =)

[NZ_mazdaSP20Black]

[b]hey guys

I'm new here but i'm here ask for some help and info I'm getting an sp20 soon hopefully.

But I live in new zealand and wanna know how much to would cost to get a turbo kit to auckland in New Zealand can anyone please help me????? :?:

if you can e-mail me or post a message on the forums for me i'll try to check every night thanks.

[twilightprotege]

mate try asking the ppl where the kits are made - for more info you can also look at www.protege5.com - a more technical forum than this one.

[NZ_mazdaSP20Black]

thanks mate if you find out anymore info please let me know

[pookiesp20]

hey people
i just have a quick question im turboing my sp20 and i was wondering if the factory computer will handle it im only running low boost (7psi) if not wat sort of piggy back ecu should i run and how much would i be lookn at??

[DVS]

factory ecu will **** pants and not work... dont bother with piggyback and go full aftermarket tuned looking at $2000 rough figure

[Ice88]

Could use MPS ECU i guess if you can find one. Prolly best looking at full ECU, much better :D

Haltech or Microtech have been proved to word on SP20s :)

Microtech LS10
Haltech E6s

The latter is rather old now so id prolly be looking at the newer ECUs, dunno if any of the maps available would be a straight swap though. In terms of available maps, the microtech has more but none are tuned for aussie conditions that i know of. So would be fine for a base map to work from but the resulting end map may be alot different.

When you get your car tuned, go for road tuning as opposed to dyno. Neither one in singularity will make for a great map, to get the most power a dyno run is needed. But to get a nice driveable power band (the aim IMO) road tuning is more effective IMO. Dynos generally more expensive too.

[LordWorm]

Could use MPS ECU i guess if you can find one. Prolly best looking at full ECU, much better :D

You mean the Mazdaspeed Protege ECU? wont work. Not without changing a bunch of stuff - would work out more expensive in the long run.



Haltech or Microtech have been proved to word on SP20s :)

Microtech LS10
Haltech E6s

The latter is rather old now so id prolly be looking at the newer ECUs, dunno if any of the maps available would be a straight swap though. In terms of available maps, the microtech has more but none are tuned for aussie conditions that i know of. So would be fine for a base map to work from but the resulting end map may be alot different.
E6X has been replaced by the Platinum series. In both cases you'd want a full tune anyway. Base maps on these things are not really designed to be driven on - they get you to the tuning shop and thats about it. The australian Microtech map will work out of the box (car will fire on the first crank if its wired in properly) - but its nasty-pig rich and rough...

Microtechs are generally cheaper to tune (they are far simpler etc) - $1065 for the computer + $400 for a full matrix tune, or $200 for a load only tune (prices recently quoted by Mazfix, who have masses of experience with these computers - have seen 3 tunes come out of there very recently, all very nice). I'd imagine the cost would be fairly uniform across the board.

pookiesp20: even at 7psi i would recommend forging the engine. Stock internals and relatively high compression have not proven to be overly reliable for turbo setups. a decent boost spike and you *will* break a rod. Remember we run higher compression than the American's, and there are many horror stories about bolt on turbo kits on stock blocks over there.

[Ice88]

I meant the maps on mazdas247 as a base. As theres a few boosted ones :)

[LordWorm]

I meant the maps on mazdas247 as a base. As theres a few boosted ones :)

Yeah, never been a fan of those maps.
People get them, think they replace the need to tune. Truth is, no 2 tunes will be exactly alike. Its gunna cost to get a tune done anyway, so bit of a waste of time to put one of those on. I often wonder how many people who have blown motors over there, have blown them because they haven't put a proper tune down.

another possible solution (a common solution in the states) is to run a second bank of fuel injectors, a fuel controller, a couple of voltage clamps (pressure switch activated) and a couple of other neat electronic tricks.

The pressure activated voltage clamps trick the stock computer into thinking its running in open loop, and the fuel controller fires up the second bank of injectors, right when the car hits positive pressure.

That way, you get stock drivability off boost, and don't need to tune any off boost maps, the second bank just supplements the fuel requirements under boost. Only problem with this approach is you are betting on the knock sensor and stock computer to satisfactorily back out timing as boost pressure rises....

but the benefit is a far nicer car to drive (you get stock cold starts, stock temp corrections, stock fuel economy off boost etc), and it only becomes an angry monster when the turbo spools up.

Kooldino on m247 pioneered this approach on the BJ, his car runs it, and pulls over 300hp if memory serves....its a common approach for after market turbo kits and works very well in most instances. Biggest benefit is simplicity i think - and cost. A fuel only controller, which doesn't need to know crank angle etc (unless you want the second bank of injectors to fire sequentially), theres about 1/3 the amount of wiring, and no need to hatchet the stock loom making it easilly reversible if you ever wanted to do it.


Kooldino's shop (speedcircuit) sells just about everything you'll need to do it (modified 626 manifold with additional fuel rail and injectors, voltage clamps, pressure switches and so on) - the fuel controller he uses is a bit US-ecu-specific...but something like a microtech LT4 fuel controller - or even a jaycar diy fuel controller would do the trick!

[Ice88]

I never really understood open loop, closed loop stuff.

And fair enough in regards to tuning just thought it might be a place to start :)

[Mc_Nuggets]

I managed to get my hands on Microtech LS10 with hand controller 2weeks ago. ($1,300)
I got a free new t28 turbo (Brother got the a wong turbo for his 300zx. My old car :P) so far nuthing has been put in coz i just bought a house and waiting for setelment on the 28th of may + i lost my licance coz i lost my wallet and some cabbie was using it for camra fines (stooge) and QLD transport wont take the points off coz i have know proooff. Hes use it so much i went to court and got denied for Not Guilty. I get it back 14 June 2011 :( But the astina is just chilling in the garage with my LM V8 soarer. As soon as i get the cash ill fill you guys in wat imgoing to do. Ill never give in and sell my babbys :P

[Sleepy Gonzalez]

I've still got a Mazdspeed protege airconditioning condenser and intercooler piping for sale if anyone needs them for an MSP based kit.