Congratulations Marcus Ambrose: AGAIN

[Cosmo Dude]

Well the V8 Supercar 2003/2004 series has been run and won.
The series came down to the wire with enough controversy to keep both the officials and the media busy for a few weeks.

Congratulations Marcus
Congratulations SBR
Well done FORD (parent company of Mazda).

Rod

[BigBoyLemonade]

FORD sucks!

Marcus Ambrose is good guy though! I am happy for him!

[KEEVRS]

Well done to marcus,
outstanding class all year.
Pity about the actions of those other ford drivers.
Must be a queenslander thing.


Go Team Brock!!!1

[lamby1986]

Its good for marcus, but its such a spoilt win after the ingall/skaife entanglements.

The inforcer is getting to old and frustrated for the sport, and killed any glory from the weekend. :x

Oh, and ford suck ..|..

[mrpayner]

Skaife had every right to be annoyed at Ingall.. I think Ingall should have gotten a larger fine/suspension for actually swerving towards Skaife. I was watching Sunrise this morning and apparently Skaife said that in other sports the suspension is for 12 months for conduct such as this. I think it's fitting. Certainly is contreversial.

AP

[BigBoyLemonade]

Skaifes fault all round I reckon.

Should have not been pushy to Ingall (which set him off)
They dont call him the enforcer for no reason...

Skaife shouldnt have been on the track to start. Its against the law.
Ingall wasnt planning to hit skaife... just give him a gee up.

Dont get me wrong Ingall's behaviour isnt acceptable but why should anyone have to put up with skaife's crap...

[Rupewrecht]

i think they both are in the wrong - Skaife for not giving him racing room, and Ingall for bumping, and then swerving at Skaife. but i think Skaife is an assclown anyway...

Go Ford! :D

[kyra]

Agreed with assclown comment Dan.

They are all yobbo v8 drivers... I mean, you don't see F1 drivers doing that at each event (maybe once a year)... any open wheel class of racing don't drive that aggressively. The fact that they can nudge each other and only swap paint is a joke... dollar penalties do not hurt the driver or team... take f'n points off or disqualify them from the round... Ingall is an f'n tool and Skaife is always sooking about something.

[KEEVRS]

Ahhh

I love this argument.

In the rulebook, its clearly stated that when undertaking, as what skaife was doing,
it has to be clearly visible, via at leat 2 camera angles and the word of the governing track official, thatthe under/overtaking car be 2/3rds ahead of the car that is being superceded,
Thus, the undertaking car is required to have its front qtr panel, at any measure, at a point that is easily reconisable as being past the b pillar of the car that is being under/overtaken.
Via the footage that was displyed yesterday , skaife had clearly done this, and was running substantially quicker lap times than ingall, and when the move went into play, ingall refused to give up racing line, thus, skaife , trying to take the racing line as a given after a passing move in the correct procedure and postition, was pushing ingall off the racing line where as ingall is responsible to fall back.

When this didnt happen, and we saw skaifes car turn around after the shunt, it became absolutely obvious that ingall was in the wrong.
if skaifes passing manouvre was not correct, then when ingall pushed over , skaifes car would not have turned around ass first.
this would only happen when the rear of skaifes car was in the line of the front of ingalls.

Understandably, ingall is a hot head, so can skaife be, but at the end of the day, ford suck.

As for our drivers being yobbos, well this is up to tthe individual.remember that larry perkins, and ingall have both raced in F1, early 80's, lowndes has raced in f3000, Bright, in Indy lights, and Brock ,moffat and perkins again in both the Spa ,and Lemans 24hour races.

We breed world class drivers in australia, and in F1, these things dont happen because their is simply to much cost involved to rsk it, its nothing to do with driver skill.

Look at nigel mansells crash at albert park for the exact same incident as happened on the weekend.and that was in a $4000000 jordan F1 car.

Ok theres my little speil.

im finished now.

Go skaife. ..|.. ..|.. ..|..

[ABC]

why is it that Ford fans can be mature enough to say 'Go Ford' and 'YAY Ford' and 'I'm a Ford fan'

and all that Holden fans can say is 'Ford Sucks' like whiney little bitch schoolkids? ..|.. ..|..






Just stirring :D

[BigBoyLemonade]

cause really both Ford and Holden suck... but we just like holden better but we would never say we liked holdens

Bring on Mazda s8 Rx7 with full tuned suspension

[Andrew_SP20]

Holden people can only put crap on Fords because there's nothing positive to say about a holden... The only races they can win are in 7 litre monaro's that you can't even buy!! They don't even have an overhead cam 6 cylinder yet!

And to all the mazda drivers here (ie. most of you)... Remember that Ford is the parent company of the Mazda motor co. so show a little respect... They managed to steer Mazda back towards the greatness and glory it formerly enjoyed. Plus, they didn't make them scrap the rotary engine!

[Cosmo Dude]

I can't remember seeing footage of the incident prior to the apex of the corner so who was how far past the other I couldn't tell. I believe that Ingal shouldn't have swerved toward Skaife but wtf was Skaife doing loitering on the track running toward him.
Yeah, punish both of 'em equaly. They were both acting like juvenile idiots.

Rod

[Critter]

Yep both in the wrong, but that is racing.

Certainly the mail I have from my trackside mates (I wasn't working there, stuck to the telly) was that Skaifey had been told in no unceretain terms to get off the track before Ingall arrived. Should never have been an issue.

Without a doubt Skaife needed to allow Ingall racing room...and didn't. Ingall was entitled to get back on the circuit, which in his own fashion he did forcibly.....no way could you imagine that what happened would have had that result.

The punishment has to fit the crime, not the result....there was in fact no "crime", rubbing is racing. There is no intent to turn the other car around.

In the end it was publicity for the sport, made the headlines which is what Supercar racing wants.

But the bottom line is WELL DONE MR. AMBROSE. Well deserved champion!
And good for the sport too, domination by any team sux.
Racing is about competition and a Ford championship is a good thing, whatever you think about Ford or Holden, IMO.

And yes, Ford is the "parent" of Mazda, so got some sympathies there for no other reason.

[KEEVRS]

Good to see some well heeled views.
This topic certainly caused a stir.

I like !!!!! 8)

[BigBoyLemonade]

Holden people can only put crap on Fords because there's nothing positive to say about a holden... The only races they can win are in 7 litre monaro's that you can't even buy!! They don't even have an overhead cam 6 cylinder yet!

And to all the mazda drivers here (ie. most of you)... Remember that Ford is the parent company of the Mazda motor co. so show a little respect... They managed to steer Mazda back towards the greatness and glory it formerly enjoyed. Plus, they didn't make them scrap the rotary engine!

Didnt know you could buy V8 supercars off the showroom floor either :P

[Critter]

With regard to yesterday's incident between Russell Ingall and Mark Skaife during Race two at Round 13 of the V8 Supercar Championship Series at Eastern Creek, the penalties handed down by the CAMS Stewards are as follows:

Russell Ingall was found to be in breach of the Rules, careless driving, after an incident involving Mark Skaife. A penalty of a deduction of 70 championship points was applied.

Mark Skaife was found to be in breach of the Rules, careless driving, after an incident involving Russell Ingall. A penalty of a deduction of 30 championship points was applied.

Russell Ingall was found to be in breach of the Rules, bringing the sport into disrepute, for driving his car towards a person proximate to the racing surface. A penalty of exclusion from the meeting, including deduction of all points earned during the meeting, and a maximum $15,000 fine was applied. A further penalty of a three-event suspension, suspended on the basis that he is not found guilty of the same offence in the next 12 months, was also applied.

Mark Skaife was found to be in breach of the Rules, bringing the sport into disrepute, for failure to comply with the instructions of an official and failure to retire behind the first line of safety after the incident. A penalty of a deduction of 75 championship points and a $10,000 fine was applied. A further penalty of a three-event suspension, suspended on the basis that he is not found guilty of the same offence in the next 12 months, was also applied.

Holden Racing Team, on behalf of Mark Skaife, has lodged a notice of intention to appeal against the decision of the Stewards with regard to the finding of careless driving.

Stone Brothers Racing, on behalf of Russell Ingall, has lodged a notice of intention to appeal against the decision of Stewards with regard to the finding of bringing the sport into disrepute.

Both entrants lodged their notice of intention to appeal within an hour of the Stewards decision last night, as required by the V8 Supercar Rules.

Each entrant now has 48 hours, from the time that the Stewards decision was handed down, to lodge their appeal proper to the V8 Supercar National Court of Appeal.

It is anticipated that the appeal hearing will be held in Melbourne on Thursday 4 December.

CAMS Statement

[kyra]

Ford has not brought back Mazda from the dead... the bean counters loosened their belts and allowed Mazda a decent budget to work with.

[KEEVRS]

Critter

May i ask where the information came from?
Not confronting it, it was just very in depth and am quite interested.

Keevrs

[ABC]

www.cams.com.au

Nice find Critter!

[Critter]

it is also at
http://www.sportal.com.au/v8x.asp

Good site for what's going on with Supercars.

[Rupewrecht]

found elsewhere:

http://www.dart.net.au/users/hexman/s-chop2.jpg

[Cosmo Dude]

Why start a new thread when there is a perfectly servicable one sitting there.

Well I've had to cop sh!t from my Holden mates for sooooooooooooooooooo many years. Now it's time to give it back. :D :D :D


TWO IN A ROW

[mrpayner]

Congrats to Marcus again! His 2nd season win in a row has certainly tarnished the glory that HRT has had for quite some time.

Commendations to the other drivers too for another entertaining season. There were some interesting spills..

AP

[wazza]

amazing what a cheat in a ford can do

[Cosmo Dude]

amazing what a cheat in a ford can do

If a Ford driver wins it's cheating, If a Holden driver wins it's tactics......


Shame on you

[lamby1986]

i think its a sad day when any v8 wins the v8 supercars :lol:

they just scared that a 4cyl turbo is gonna kick their arse :lol:

congrats to Marcus

[-BraXta-]

amazing what a cheat in a ford can do

Hmmm yes... well... lets just talk bout that !!

If you can recall Mr Skaife had the same similar incident with a mystery plug too..

But it never got out to media till bout say..... 2 WEEKS !!

but when ford had the cable oh the media had a field day.. OHH THEY CHEATED !! BLA BLA..

Well it happened to holden... And no fuss...

This series has always been holden favored... they had a different spoiler height than ford for ages and other lil things too..

but finally its been made more even... and holden fans are pissed cause now... a ford is actually whoopin their ass... and they dont like it .. so it only requires 1 lil thing to make holden fans say.. Fords only win by cheating...

i say holden have only held the reign by cheating..

Thats just my 2 cents...

[lamby1986]

This series has always been holden favored... they had a different spoiler height than ford for ages and other lil things too..
the arguement that in years gone past the holden cars had a better aero package on the car is kinda bunk. It is a testament to the engineers who designed the kit while still abiding by all of the rules set out at that time. this lead to a good winning formula, one so good that the cars needed to be "equalised". "holden, go shave that front spoiler, little more, little more, and lower that back one" - still too fast. then came the dreaded Blue Print in the v8 supercars.

one way to make sure that you can stuff up your opponents game, give him your stuff. all v8s have now got the same suspension hardware set up, which is the stuff fords have been using for years, as they deemed holden's suspension setups "inferior" (they were winning, weren't they?). so now they have had to cmoe to terms with totally new suspension dynamics, meaning they cant like the ford teams use last years data at each track, but rather must start from stratch. also under these blueprints, the aeropakages are the same (as much the same as two different cars can become) and even though they are running different engines, the difference in bhp between the top teams is 10 at most tracks.

effectively they are running the same car with a different body around it. maybe they should just give them all aussie racers :lol: and unlike other categories of racing, the cars raced are only a shell (if that) similar to their road going counterparts, esp holden (see the suspension thing ^ ).

Give me the GTP, Nations cup and aussie racers anyday. and the rally too.

[wazza]

I am so sorry guys and gals - I was just doing a wind up.

Actually, I much prefer to watch the 4's race anyday. The 8's are just predictable and boring.

I still remember watching MK1 Cortina's race around Wigram airbase in Christchurch, NZ. Up on two wheels on every corner. Awesome stuff.

Apologies again - I promise I won't do it again.

[chicaboo]

I grew up sitting down to watch the ATCC every weekend it was on with my dad as a child. This went from the late 70's, the Group C days into the 80's and until '92 with the Group A era.
I can honestly say I much prefered the older days (Group C and earlier) when the car being raced on the track was the car you bought off the showroom floor. Then a win really was a win for the manufacturer!
Although I did find the international Group A regulations very entertaining aswell with the intro of the turbos because it added some more variety. Although the sport did go heywire then, Mark Skaife and Jim Richards' R32 Godzilla had 4x4, close to 900hp and it had to carry 300kg+ ballust to equalise it (from memory). And even Dick Johnson's Sierra had 620whp and could run 317kph down the then Conrod Straight (no bend in those days). Basically these cars were not what represented the thing you drove to work and took shopping.
In 93 when they split the class into 5.0L and 2.0L categories I continued to watched for a while... But it was a really rediculous attempt to make a strong showing for the local Fords and Holdens. Eventually the 2.0L broke away and addopted the TOCA Super Tourers formula.
I pretty much stopped watching the ATCC from that point until I switched on the TV one saturday in October or November 1997. I saw something interesting that got my attention. It was a wide body Camry on the same track as a Dodge Viper. Damn this was exciting! I had just discovered GTP. From that point I got hooked on GTP, this was once again real racing with the car representing the manufacturer.
Unfortuantely the GTP series got too big and was broken into Nations Cup and the 2 other GT Production classes. To my disgust this series has been tossed from 10 to SBS to 7 to 10 to SBS to 9!!! WTF??? My other favourite category Super Trucks died off too after being tossed around the networks... I still don't know what channel to watch GTP on now?
But I did start watching the V8s again in 97 too, only to see my favourite tracks Amaroo Park and Lakeside dropped from the list that year. The V8s a semi entertaining for me and have become a little too sanitised for me to really enjoy it like I did the old ATCC. You guys who aren't old enough to remember what Bathurst was like before the concrete walls and The Chase have missed out I'm afraid. Those were the good days...
Dick Johnson hitting a rock, Dick Johnson hitting a Kangaroo, Dick Jonhson hitting a tree after Forest Elbow on the most amazing lap that never was. Dick Johnson hitting a camera man in '93...

Sorry, just a nostalgic rant,
Gav.

[tidy protege]

nice rant gav couldnt have put it better I remember the early 90s when I was only a little mite and loved watching the cars with dad the early days sparked my interest and some 10 or 15 years later im now a car nut, that loves to see phenominal drivers rewarded and hopes to be reward for building a special car one day.

GO AUTOSALON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chicaboo]

Hi Craig,

Yeah, because I don't particulary go for Holden or Ford I tend to like the personalities driving the car more than the car itself these days. Although I may swing towards Ford a bit more than Holden for some reason.
Marcus is a really likeable guy and I'm glad he took the championship, I don't care if fame has gone to his head a bit, it must be nice to feel pride for such an achievement.

Gav.

[tidy protege]

Im just glade that he has broken fords droughts of wins its good to some one apart from the redlions on the podium.

He has restored a little hope to ford fans cause they would have been questioning their aliances with ford cause they never can celebrate a win.

A likable yes, but im not overly sure if success has gone to his head compare him with the likes of Mark Skaife or even Cameron Mconvelle (big spelling mistake) he isnt even a great driver but he thinks he is all that.

[Cosmo Dude]

It would be difficult for anyone to achieve that level of success without it going to their head in some way.
One of the most down to earth drivers I've met was Steve Richards, realy nice guy who for something to do brought his wife and kids out to watch a motorkhana in the back sticks of Pakenham :shock: . I didn't win class that day :(


BTW congrats to Russell Ingal, sitting behind Skaife for so many laps and keeping his cool :P For that in its self he deserved second in the series :D

[chipa]

Congrats indeed!

Ford 1st & 2nd for the 2004 Championship
SBR 1st & 2nd for the 2004 Championship
Ford 1st, 2nd & 3rd for the last round of 2004.

It doesn't get much better than that!

I too wish for the days when it was closer to the old "race on Sunday, sell on Moday" thinking. However the usual joy killers (politicians and the media) killed that idea in the 70's. On the other hand, I shudder to think what would happen if something like a v8 supercar was only slightly modified to get rego and be street driven. We get enough idiots out there already, please don't give them easier access!

[platypus]

haha, i grew up with dad on the remote, i remember the BMW's up against the other cars as well as the skyline days, they were good, then we seemed to switch to rally, then to BTCC, TOCA, and that other 2.0L series....

they are the better races in my opinion

other fav i do have is things like the mirage cup, that is real racing, all cars are identical with small exceptions like drivers, tyres, steering wheels and seats... something else there too, but essentially mechanically identical - a true test of driver skill IMHO

[chicaboo]

other fav i do have is things like the mirage cup, that is real racing, all cars are identical with small exceptions like drivers, tyres, steering wheels and seats... something else there too, but essentially mechanically identical - a true test of driver skill IMHO
I haven't seen that formula for a couple of years atleast. And those Mirages aren't slow either, they have 140kW Ralliart modified engines and can go head to head with WRXs for straight line speed I'm told.
The beauty of 1-make racing is that it is so close and often very entertaining due to the lengths a driver must go to outbreak their oponent. That makes for very exciting racing with lots of crashes.
I have to add to GTP on my list of favourite racing Brutes Utes and Assie Racers (Legends).

Gav.

[brad 323 sp20]

well at least ford havent had wankers like skaife and brock racing for them except for when the so called legend brock (********) raced a ford sierra

[Rupewrecht]

well at least ford havent had wankers like skaife and brock racing for them except for when the so called legend brock (********) raced a ford sierra

I can't stand skaife! So glad HRT sucks now :D

congrats to ambrose and ingall on the 1-2 finish to the season...go ford!

now they just need to win bathurst...

[chipa]

now they just need to win bathurst...

hear hear!

[wazza]

Holden/Ford - what's the difference. They look more and more like each other every day and to tell the truth when the company offered the choice I said what choice. I'd rather have a Mazda 626 - now that's style and it doesn't look or sound or drive like a Sherman tank.

As for the drivers, I don't "hate" any of them. In fact, I can't think of anyone I actually hate - even my ex wife !

Get real guys and lighten up

[DrSilver]

GO mazda 6 turbo-4WD! 8)

[Cosmo Dude]

AVESCO would enjoy adding more makes to the V8 supercar series and the rumors of a RWD Magna with a Chrysler five litre V8, a RWD Camry with Toyota power and RWD Mazda powered by Jaguar pop their heads up from time to time.

[mrpayner]

Holden/Ford - what's the difference. They look more and more like each other every day

..exactly! They're only glorified taxi's [above executive and XT falcon], and they're worth **** all when you trade them in a couple of years later. I don't mind either car, but they're like arseholes.. everyone has one! Although I"m a little biased towards Holden, the Ford mob did a pretty damn good job with the BA.

I'll step up for something a little more stylish though please.

AP

[Nate]

im not fighting ... just thought i would let you know i got a free ticket to eastern creek on saturday :D :D :D

[tidy protege]

Has any one here gone for a hot lap in a V8 supercar, me and some mates wouldnt mind going for one and yes although they are glorified they are bloody quick glorified taxes imagine being hustled around the city in 600hp yellow ford falon XT

[platypus]

i think they should all run on LPG and be driven by little greek/italian men who don't watch the road - oooh and have setup shortcuts... that take about 15 minutes longer, and add $5+ to your journey

sorry i catch taxis from bankstown alot - to be fixed on friday morning!!! STAY OFF THE FOOTPATH!!!!