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View Full Version : White Smoke and oil usage


Phoenix8204
04-01-2010, 09:55 PM
Hi, my apologies to everyone, I am new to both AstinaGT, as well as to repairing engine (total Noob).

Right, let me give the scenario, I was put into a position where i had to redo the engine. Unfortunatley, due to money constraints :( i was unable to let it be done professionaly, or buy 2nd hand one, so what we did was remove the engine, Honed the sleeves, checked the crank, replaced Big ends as well as Main bearings, new rings, new oil pump, new belts, new gasket set (all engine seals, including head gasket). I had some funds available to do the head skimming, as well as have them check the valve stem seals.

After reassembling the engine and placed back in the car, the car started, but timing was off. We were tinkering with that for a while, got it right, but during this action she started smoking white. She ran for approximately 15 min-1 hour, with no smoke, and all of a sudden smoke started.

We continued to tinker and fix, (there was an oil leak from the pump), up til the point where only the smoke remained.

Does anybody have a theory as to why this could be happening?
If more info is needed please let me know, and i will try to supply as best i can.

Forgot to mention, Mazda astina 97 model, BP engine DOHC.

mikey_something
04-01-2010, 10:02 PM
blue smoke = oil
black smoke = incomplete combustion
white smoke usually means water?
someone confirm that and the likely spot it'd be.

70NYD
04-01-2010, 11:25 PM
white smoke is water mate :(
i was 1st going to suggest condensation in exhaust pipes/catalytic converter, but since it ran fine for a hour prior to smoke im going to have to say most likely a head gasket :(
well i HOPE its the headgasket and that there is no splits within the block/head itself :(
keep us posted :)
welcome to AGT

NaughtyGT
05-01-2010, 05:56 AM
yeah, water I'm afraid :o can't believe you couldn't muster up a 2nd hand engine instead of going to all this trouble but perhaps SA is a very different story bthan over here? Firstly, sorry about the dramas & it would appear they aren't over yet :( My big question is, when you re-assembled the engine, did you clean block surface so there were no dags, especially round the water jacket ports prior to fitting head? You have stated that you had the head skimmed :)

Did you check & notice coolant level drop in resorvoir? May only initially be small amount but since you saw white smoke, chances are it is a little more than this?

It would be highly unlikely for the block to be cracked unless it was subject to extreme heat/abuse & that would result in cracked/& or warped head first in more than most cases. More info is needed to isolate exact problem though.

What was the reason for the re-build? Simply worn out rings? or did the engine overheat? You need to assess the original condition of engine then, track the most obvious cause of trouble.

Your stock head gasket will not accept anything less than smooth surface to clamp to! So, my monies on the head gasket torn @ a water jacket. 95% sure! I cannot think of any other reason for this given little info of prior engine condition

Phoenix8204
07-01-2010, 03:04 PM
Thanx for the replies, and sorry for the delay in response. Yes we have actually cleaned the block side as well (1500grain Sandpaper), but i may have talked prematurely. I have since topped up the oil again, and drove her home from my friends place (approx 30km's). We have noticed a considerable drop in the smoke, as well as i haven't seen the oil drop again. Perhaps the oil dropped first time to fill all channels?

I asked around, and one "test" apparently is to check if the sump has any pressure, to indicate broken rings or head gasket. There is none whatsoever (checked by removing dip stick).

The reason i have redone the engine, is because of oil pump failure. I may be a total noob (and i mean total) but i have heard my dad often talk about engines overheating, so when Knocking noise started, coupled with oil light. I stopped driving straight away. Temp at that time was still o.k. So the initial idea was check/replace whatever went.

It started as a normal repair job, and a new endeavor for me as well, considering i have never worked on any car before, including my own. It was the money well spend, considering i at least know how the engine actually works now. If there is any other insights to the matter, please let me know.

Thanx again for the replies.

mikey_something
07-01-2010, 05:21 PM
when refilling oil i believe you are supposed to top it, run the engine to operating temperature (high idle for 5 minutes) then turn it off and retop it... oil should circulate around and fill all the pipes as you said and need more, just gotta check your dipstick each time
low oil = bad
overfull oil = bad

NaughtyGT
08-01-2010, 09:55 AM
Thanx for the replies, and sorry for the delay in response. Yes we have actually cleaned the block side as well (1500grain Sandpaper), but i may have talked prematurely. I have since topped up the oil again, and drove her home from my friends place (approx 30km's). We have noticed a considerable drop in the smoke, as well as i haven't seen the oil drop again. Perhaps the oil dropped first time to fill all channels?

I asked around, and one "test" apparently is to check if the sump has any pressure, to indicate broken rings or head gasket. There is none whatsoever (checked by removing dip stick).

The reason i have redone the engine, is because of oil pump failure. I may be a total noob (and i mean total) but i have heard my dad often talk about engines overheating, so when Knocking noise started, coupled with oil light. I stopped driving straight away. Temp at that time was still o.k. So the initial idea was check/replace whatever went.

It started as a normal repair job, and a new endeavor for me as well, considering i have never worked on any car before, including my own. It was the money well spend, considering i at least know how the engine actually works now. If there is any other insights to the matter, please let me know.

Thanx again for the replies.

the sump pressure is a little more than pulling the dipstick. This involves excesive blow-by noted when PCV valve is removed or oil filler cap or still yet, pressure seen when engine has been run & you loosen off radiator filler cap (NOT when engine is too hot = dangerous) A pressurised sump can indicate head gasket leak too btw.

hmmm......sorry to hear this. Yeah, the info woulda helped target the prob. That's cool. This is not a common problem (oil pump failure) by any means. Bugger.

Anyway, all the best from now on. Just be sure to check all fluids religiously over next few weeks :cool:

Phoenix8204
28-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you guys. Once again, thanx for all the info and suggestions. Thanx for the suggestion mikey, it seems that you were indeed correct about that, the oil level dropped because it had to fill up all the channels. the oil level was stable after initial drop, until i suddenly developed a leak on the oil pump itself (right at the mounting for the altenator). I will have to fix that first to check it again, but before that it was stable.

In regards to the white smoke, my water consumption is virtually zero, and as time passed, it became less and less. Where it was smoking continually at the beginning, it now only splutters out a cloud of white smoke every few days, notably when i am on an incline.

I am assuming there was water in the system somewhere???

I do have another question though, and this is something i cannot answer by researching here in south africa, I want to know whether the 2.0L engine that was released everywhere else, except south africa, would fit in the 1800 model without modification. Is there any possibilty that the gearbox and engine would use the same mountings? I am toying with the idea of replacing the engine (after saving a bit, of course :().

Thanx once again for all the help.

Cosmo Dude
28-01-2010, 05:04 PM
I do have another question though, and this is something i cannot answer by researching here in south africa, I want to know whether the 2.0L engine that was released everywhere else, except south africa, would fit in the 1800 model without modification. Is there any possibilty that the gearbox and engine would use the same mountings? I am toying with the idea of replacing the engine (after saving a bit, of course :().

Thanx once again for all the help.

If you're talking about the V6 then almost everything except the headlights needs to be changed. Well not quite that bad if you're adventurous.
The mounting points are the same and depending on your trans some parts are similar. The brake master cylinder is shorter and most of the wiring is different (even where the engine loom plugs into the main loom).
If you have direct access to the V6 626 I'd be using one of them as a donor for any conversion as that should be a 2.5l and give you improved torque and a higher 5th gear ratio (economy).

Phoenix8204
29-01-2010, 04:40 PM
thanx for the info cosmo, what i basically want is a power improvement, and after posting I browsed some of the other posts. Seems the v6 is not really an option, as it doesn't provide that much more power. I will definitely consider the 626 engine, but first i want to know what engine (more Powerful) would give me the least hassles in terms of conversion,
(apart from the original, of course :))

Is there a 1.8 turbo available?

Where can i find the specs on the different options (if you can supply me with any), etc.

Like I said, I am toying with the idea, i want to restore the old bird to former glory, you know... take pride in my ride, it's just that i am not sure where to begin (being a noob).

Any guidance and help would be highly appreciated, and i am assuming this is gonna be a few months worth of work and earnings. Anybody interested in making me an apprentice... :)

70NYD
29-01-2010, 07:19 PM
turboing your 1.8 is probably the cheaper option
the 1.8 BPT was released from late 80s to early 90s in familia GTX and GTR AWD models.
if you want a stock BPT engine you will need gearbox as well (g series, 1.8DOHC) from a bg astina or a 1994-1995 BA astina as the F series gearbox you have is likely to not take the power.
you can turbo your stock motor by using stronger (forged) internals (ie pistons and rods) but you will still need a new gearbox. you can problably keep the stock internals of the BP if you are going to have small boost (.5 bar or so)

Phoenix8204
29-01-2010, 08:18 PM
Let's say for argument sake that i am willing to do the conversion to 2.5L V6 engine, and i have been reading up, i would, if possible, get the KL-ZE engine, would anybody be willing to guide me? It seems by actually replace the engine would give me a considerable boost to power.

Another question, is it possible to turbo the v6 engine as well? (sorry for the noob question). That way, once i get used to the v6, and consequentially, bored, i can add some more power to it?

Thanx

70NYD
29-01-2010, 08:44 PM
yes you can turbo ANYTHING with money and time.. usually more money than time but....
like Cosmo said, everything will have to be changed if you want the 2.5L v6
on a similar note, a friend of family has a 626 with 2.5LT i havent driven in it yet but i heard it is excutiatingly fast. also equaly expensive

Phoenix8204
29-01-2010, 09:05 PM
You willing to guide me 70NYD? Please keep in mind that i just recently overhauled my engine myself, and that is the extend of my experience. I am willing to place some funds on the table, and this is most likely gonna take quite a few months, but if i have help, then i want to go that route. What i need, i guess, is clear, precise set of instructions, and related costs, so that i can start getting prices here in SA. Then i will be able to formulate a plan to get started.

Thanx

70NYD
29-01-2010, 09:17 PM
i havent looked at a conversion so i cant guide you at all. :(
sorry man. but im sure that there is plenty of information here if you are willing to search for it. also club323F will have info as well, but apartently its offline...

Phoenix8204
29-01-2010, 10:41 PM
Thanx anyway, appreciate the info so far