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Ice88
24-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Hey Guys

Most of you probably don't know me, I don't really post here that much mainly cause im a N/A person and pretty much everything now a days is turbo talk. Kinda feels like im 4 years late to the party tbh. In any event this thread will be a record of my N/A build, its not going to be wild like installshield or anything, but should be up there with the rest of the crazy N/A peeps.

Mod List:
Engine/Transmission:
Custom Weisco ~12:1 Pistons with 21mm wristpin.
3SGTE Rods
3SGTE Oversized Bearings
Modified Crank to Suit Bearings (i.e. tighter tolerances all round) + Achieve thicker bearings.
Samco Radiator Hoses
AWR Engine Mounts - 70 Durometer
Modified Head - 5 Angle Valve Job, Blending, Ported and Knife-Edged Intake Ports, Ported and Knife-Edged Exhaust Ports.
Twiggy Cams
Adaptronic e440D
Zentrix Flexi Fuel Module
Innovate MTX-L Wide Band Kit
DocB Racing Oil Pump
Peterson Pressure Release Valve
Modified MBSP for Oil Return
Oil Filter Relocation Kit:
- Works Engineering Oil Adapters
- Aeroflow AN10 Fittings All Round
- Aeroflow Black Tubing
Focus Adjustable Cam Gears
Jay Racing Thermal Spacers
FS-ZE Intake Manifold
626 Throttle Body (FS-ZEs use them stock)
MSP Oil Cooler
Stant Low Temperature Thermostat
K&N Typhoon CAI
Air Diversion Panel
Autoexe Headers 4-2-1
Custom 2.5" Exhaust + Mid Pipe. High Flow Magnaflow Cat
CR3 Motorsport Radiator Brackets
RR Racing Bush Kit
RR Racing UDP
Mfactory LSD
Fidanza Flywheel - 7.5lb
Custom NPC 760kg Clutch
eBay Short Shifter
Qford Bushes
Mazdaspeed Protege Weighted Gearknob

Interior:
Pioneer Headunit
Pioneer 6x9 Splits 350 Watts - Front
Pioneer 6" Rears
Kicker 260watt Slim Line Sub
Alpine 4 Channel Amplifier

Suspension/Braking
Yellow Speed Coilovers - 8kg Fronts/5kg Rears
Progress Rear Sway Bar
Mazdaspeed Familia/Protege Calipers
DBA Street Series Rotors - Slotted (274mm Rear (Mazda 6 GG Rotor))
DBA Street Series Rotors - Slotted (280mm Front (Mazda 6 GG Rotor))
Hawk HPS Pads
Penrite DOT 4 - Racing Fluid
Autoexe 3 Point Strut Brace w/ MCS

Exterior:
DG Carbon Fibre Grille
AAC Sag Fix Brackets
17x7 Mazdaspeed Familia Rims w Khumo KU31 215/45/17
Japanese Familia Badging
Japanese Sport20 HIDs - Painted Black
Smoked Side Indicators

To Be Installed:
4x135w Amplifier - Power Sub Woofer
Cusco Lower Strut Brace
Autoexe Rear Strut Brace

Want/Need:
Front and Rear Endlinks
Organise Autoexe Chassis Bracing Group Buy
E85 Fuel Pump
E85 Injectors
ITBs
ITB Adapter Plate

Decomissioned:
Espelir Springs - Linear Springs
Tokico HP Blues - Front & Rear
Autoexe Muffler

Rhys
24-09-2012, 02:38 PM
pics or it didn't happen

Ice88
24-09-2012, 02:40 PM
pics or it didn't happen

Ill be asking Phil for the photos he took last week, when hes home :)

swift jimmy
24-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Congrats dude :-D

talk about a stock pile of parts hahahahha

marcs_sp20
24-09-2012, 03:44 PM
Congrats, even though I kinda suspected it was your car in the OMC cruise pics last week :p

The seat knobs adjusters can be interchanged from the passenger seat, I have a couple here if you want one, let us know ;)

Rupewrecht
24-09-2012, 03:46 PM
Congrats! About time you got one. :p

project.r.racing
24-09-2012, 03:55 PM
pics or it didn't happenwhat he said

Ben
24-09-2012, 06:23 PM
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o523/benn_/IMG_4362_zps1e7c894e.jpg

Half a pic?

Rupewrecht
24-09-2012, 06:28 PM
Figured it was his when i saw the wheels.

TheMAN
24-09-2012, 06:32 PM
ugh... putting stuff on top of the car... how could you!

you care to see how the cruise control is wired up? see if the switch operates by discrete wiring or with resistive signalling... the latter of which is how the FACTORY mazda cruise control works... each button is connected through different resistors and so the control box picks up which button you pressed based on a specific voltage it sees

if that crap aussie cruise control works by resistive signalling, I can find you a USDM cruise control switch and send it to you so you can add it in ;) it'll look much nicer and easier to use than that crap sticking out of your steering column :)

Ice88
24-09-2012, 06:57 PM
ugh... putting stuff on top of the car... how could you!

you care to see how the cruise control is wired up? see if the switch operates by discrete wiring or with resistive signalling... the latter of which is how the FACTORY mazda cruise control works... each button is connected through different resistors and so the control box picks up which button you pressed based on a specific voltage it sees

if that crap aussie cruise control works by resistive signalling, I can find you a USDM cruise control switch and send it to you so you can add it in ;) it'll look much nicer and easier to use than that crap sticking out of your steering column :)

The laptop is phils, didnt know it was there tbh. Pretty sure i was cussing up a storm inside my head about the AAC sag brackets.

In regards to the Cruise Control, how can I tell which is which?

TheMAN
24-09-2012, 07:05 PM
disconnect the switch (better to disconnect the battery first so you don't fry that precious POS cruise control brain), then just test continuity between all wires of the switch... if you see lots of wires then more than likely it's just direct wire... if it's just 2 or 3 wires, then it's likely resistive... you can just make sure by checking the resistance of all wires... there has to be a common earth or power

look at the USDM shop manual, you'll get some ideas how that switch works ;)




and how dare you phil! putting crap on people's cars without permission! :mad:

phildough
24-09-2012, 07:06 PM
The laptop is all phil. Never knew it was on there.

In regards to the Cruise Control, how can I tell which is which?

LOL it's my tiny Asus transformer weighing 1 kg with rubber feet, no way it could harm anything when placed carefully and we have to polish it properly to get rid of the swirls.

As for the cruise control I will have a look at the wiring in the next few days and let you know.

Here is a couple of pics of Kris's new car the day after he got it before he fitted the rims.

http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu15/phildough_photos/IMG_8248_zps320cc0f8.jpg

http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu15/phildough_photos/IMG_8247_zps3a2c3830.jpg

luk3333
24-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Jealous of this:

Stuff I Have:
- FS-ZE
- Twiggy Cams
- Microtech (Anyone want it?)
- Focus Adjustable Cam Gears
- Progress Rear Sway Bar
- Autoexe 4-2-1 Header
+ lots more
Thats enough for a wet dream..

How much are you looking for the Microtech? and what will you do with the ZE cams when you put the Twiggy's in? ;) Very keen to see this with all those parts in there :)

Ice88
24-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Here's some iphone photos to tide you guys over:
http://imageshack.us/a/img222/7919/img0564io.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/img0564io.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img600/1144/img0563jt.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/img0563jt.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img23/5591/img0562wa.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/img0562wa.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img253/7131/img0561ai.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/253/img0561ai.jpg/)

Click for bigger images. Ill get some better photos once im over this cold. Space for a side on shot was an issue during both quick shoots :(

LOL it's my tiny Asus transformer weighing 1 kg with rubber feet, no way it could harm anything when placed carefully and we have to polish it properly to get rid of the swirls.

All good buddy. You treat your car with care so I trust you :)

Jealous of this:

Thats enough for a wet dream..

How much are you looking for the Microtech? and what will you do with the ZE cams when you put the Twiggy's in? ;) Very keen to see this with all those parts in there :)

Heh! Thanks man. There's a few pieces I haven't thought of yet floating around.

Id like what I paid for it tbh. Ill pm you in regards to it :)

As for the Cams, there the exact same as far as we are aware as whats in that FS-DE you have there :) The only exception being if I landed a MSF engine of which the chances are extremely extremely slim. (Phildough has 1 of 209)

TheMAN
24-09-2012, 07:29 PM
haha no, his engine is #49 of 209 ;)

more reason for you to make it a mazdaspeed version now... the colour is the right one, you have the wheels, you just need the suspension, engine, and some interior bits now! :D

Mad Mat
24-09-2012, 07:41 PM
God I love this car so much... Reminds me of my old ride... :) pitty about the mid pipe.. :(

Ben
24-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Pretty sure i was cussing up a storm inside my head about the AAC sag brackets.


Haha you had some trouble with those. Mat got a side done in 10 minutes and it took both of us to fit the other side. It got there though ;)

bikingpro5
24-09-2012, 08:46 PM
looks good, can't wait to follow the rest of the build

Ice88
24-09-2012, 09:40 PM
Cheers Guys.

Hopefully my next shipment of goods arrives in the next few days :D

marcs_sp20
25-09-2012, 06:27 AM
I have a Team Pro5 sticker here for you too ;)

maz sp20
25-09-2012, 08:17 AM
Congrats ! let the fun begin

Ice88
04-10-2012, 09:00 PM
How the car looks with the Rims on, prior to the new springs being installed:

http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu15/phildough_photos/IMG_8443-2_zpsb104a9a9.jpg

xeon8
04-10-2012, 09:14 PM
Very nice man!! I'm loving the MSF rims :D They suit the car well!

Ice88
04-10-2012, 09:29 PM
Needs a good clean and polish.

I really need a pay rise though :(

marcs_sp20
04-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Hows it like to drive now?

Car looks super clean, as I said to you on Monday, photos dont do the car any justice :)

Ice88
04-10-2012, 09:38 PM
A lot, lot better. Starting to be as much fun as my old car was :)

Rear springs bounce a bit, think that's cause the rear struts are a wee bit soft :p. Gave it a bit of a boot on the way home around the toowong round about (nothing silly just quick :)) and was great.

Can't wait for the fronts to go in :)

Rhys
05-10-2012, 09:38 AM
Looks awesome!!

BG1.8sp
05-10-2012, 10:40 AM
You know I wanted those rims??
Was going to put a bid on them... But I knew you already had :p
Hahaha they look sick man. Tbh... The gold suits your colour better anyway ;)

Swap? :p jks jks I love mine to much... I just wanted those ones as a second set. Lol

z100
05-10-2012, 02:54 PM
Looks great, uber jealous of the wheels! Needs clear side indicators pronto!

Ice88
05-10-2012, 04:02 PM
You know I wanted those rims??
Was going to put a bid on them... But I knew you already had :p
Hahaha they look sick man. Tbh... The gold suits your colour better anyway ;)

Swap? :p jks jks I love mine to much... I just wanted those ones as a second set. Lol

Yeah happy I got them, even if they are a bit heavy :)

Looks great, uber jealous of the wheels! Needs clear side indicators pronto!

Few other things to get first, new rear struts being one of the major things.

And a few other parts for the FS-ZE swap, I'm functional > form person so looks related mods will probably be the last thing I do.

Unfortunately doesn't look like my contract will be renewed so need to find a job after this one before any money is spent further.

Ice88
24-10-2012, 10:13 PM
OK a piccy update of parts I have received:

Twiggy Cams + Micortech
http://imageshack.us/a/img26/219/imageyrhh.jpg

AWR 70 Durometer Engine Mounts - 4pc Set
http://imageshack.us/a/img23/3192/img05981s.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/img05981s.jpg/)
Arrived Friday xD

Got these a while back but have been busy and lazy, FocusMSP Adjustable Cam Gears:
http://imageshack.us/a/img208/1254/img05991.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/img05991.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img839/3323/img06001v.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/img06001v.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/8600/img06011.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/img06011.jpg/)

DocB Oil Pump + External PRV Valve
http://imageshack.us/a/img823/241/img06021z.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/img06021z.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/1830/img06031y.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/img06031y.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img515/6896/img06041j.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/img06041j.jpg/)

Dunno why the pump looks so rusty :/

EDIT: Click for bigger images :)

xeon8
24-10-2012, 10:30 PM
That all looks sexy! :D

swift jimmy
24-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Where u get the awr mounts from?

Ice88
25-10-2012, 07:16 AM
AWR :) he has a few in stock to so no delays :)

swift jimmy
25-10-2012, 08:06 AM
interesting.. how much did it come to with shipping? sorry to be a pain :-)

Ice88
25-10-2012, 02:05 PM
520 something?

Ice88
26-10-2012, 07:14 AM
Checked paypal was 530 shipped.

swift jimmy
26-10-2012, 10:18 AM
thats insane when i went through the AWR site they wanted $275 for shipping :-O

so bought mine through protegegargae (yes i have seen the comments on another thread on here) see what happens :-)

Ice88
26-10-2012, 01:56 PM
Yeah if you email tony hes willing to ship USPS :)

Ice88
29-10-2012, 07:48 PM
Posting this here so I don't lose it.

Shopping List of stuff i need to get before the FS-ZE can go in:
Intake Manifold Gasket
Throttle Body Gasket
Gates timing belt kit
Waterpump - gmb
tube of 3 bond - grey.
Clutch + spigot bearing.
Hoses
Coolant
Oil
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
Gear Box Oil

marcs_sp20
29-10-2012, 08:01 PM
So whens the ETA for this motor to go in??

maztech
29-10-2012, 08:16 PM
good ??????????? When $$$$$$$$$$$$ and time all line up

Ice88
29-10-2012, 08:19 PM
Marc, when I know I have a job after Dec 21st.

I never planned not to have one as previously every student who'd worked at the ATO has seemed to have gotten either a contract extension or had a position open up for them.

Neither have happened for me or the other students. There's a big push down south to save money so no one knows anything really about positions. My manager has said a business case for me to stay has been floating around but haven't heard anything.

Rhys
30-10-2012, 09:11 AM
Posting this here so I don't lose it.

Shopping List of stuff i need to get before the FS-ZE can go in:
Intake Manifold Gasket
Throttle Body Gasket
Gates timing belt kit
Waterpump - gmb
tube of 3 bond - grey.
Clutch + spigot bearing.
Hoses
Coolant
Oil
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
Gear Box Oil

I actually went into mazda and they said that the throttle body gasket doesn't seem to exist.. They said there was a part no. for it but it wasn't in their system..? =l that was two different people at two different times too...

swift jimmy
30-10-2012, 09:33 AM
Ice 88 - your shopping list looks like mine for the FS-ZE hahaha

Orion
30-10-2012, 09:49 AM
I actually went into mazda and they said that the throttle body gasket doesn't seem to exist.. They said there was a part no. for it but it wasn't in their system..? =l that was two different people at two different times too...

I'll see if I kept the packet for mine and get the part number off that. If I threw the packet out, I will have a look for the invoice as it should be on there.

Which Mazda dealer did you go to? They sound ... er ... helpful (not) :p

Ice88
30-10-2012, 10:57 AM
Ice 88 - your shopping list looks like mine for the FS-ZE hahaha

Make sure to get the long necked plugs :)

I might get a step colder too, but will see what Jarrod says.

@ Orion, thanks buddy.

Rhys
30-10-2012, 02:33 PM
I'll see if I kept the packet for mine and get the part number off that. If I threw the packet out, I will have a look for the invoice as it should be on there.

Which Mazda dealer did you go to? They sound ... er ... helpful (not) :p

Haha Eagle Farm. It's just down the road from me. Maybe they were just noobs and didn't want to order one in from Sydney or something.

Edit: sorry for spamming Kris

HAIGHIE
30-10-2012, 07:30 PM
part number off the packet from the gasket i got for matt (swiftjimmy)
is well it's got
1 M FS0113655
but it might be just FS0113655

but it'll either be one or the other,

Ice88
30-10-2012, 08:00 PM
Thanks Haighie :)

maztech
30-10-2012, 08:49 PM
After working at Mazda dealers. Parts depts are the worst I get the best service and help from toowoomba Mazda followed by Boettchers at Ipswich . A inner west dealer near a Toyota dealership , the parts manager is hopeless and if it is not a current part it is to hard for him .

Ice88
01-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Contract got extended so will probably start acquiring more parts soon :)

swift jimmy
01-11-2012, 09:19 PM
:-D great news mate... NOW START BUYING PARTS !!!!!

Ice88
01-11-2012, 09:21 PM
Heh Im going to try and restrict myself to whats on the above list.

maztech
01-11-2012, 09:53 PM
Contract got extended so will probably start acquiring more parts soon :)

Yehhhhhhhh good news

Oh no I have to start doing something with you motor now

Ice88
05-01-2013, 11:35 PM
Went on a mountain run today few pics of my car:
http://imageshack.us/a/img189/5480/42334449615523936811978.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/7961/19700049615003923813129.jpg

Also installed a JL Audio 4 Channel Amp last weekend with the help of a friend, still have to get photos off the phone. Also thought I'd ordered the last of my parts but just remembered tonight that Ive still yet to get gearbox oil, clutch, oil filter relocation kit + oil filter and oil pressure gauge so that I can adjust the External Pressure Valve :/ Kinda a bit to forget.

EDIT: Thanks Ben for teh Photos :D

Ice88
17-02-2013, 11:46 AM
So phil (danke Phil <3) helped me install an amplifier to go with my new speakers and head deck (which is looking rather worse for wear after only about 7 months use, lots of use but still :(, I treat my stuff really well too :().

Friend hard at work while i take happy snaps:
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/5243/img0742w.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/img0742w.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img221/3883/img0741pm.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/img0741pm.jpg/)
Amp in Question, cant believe how small they've gotten, compared to the amps of yester year.
http://imageshack.us/a/img255/218/img0740ts.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/255/img0740ts.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img502/4503/img0739ib.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/img0739ib.jpg/)
Headunit up on the dashboard so that the plugs can be rewired:
http://imageshack.us/a/img844/6861/img0738of.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/img0738of.jpg/)

Actually really happy with the amp its made a massive difference to the sound quality, lots better mids and lows. Has a better sound stage as well now IMO. Only fault that I can really give it is that the highs are more pronounced at and at higher volumes can be a little sharp compared to the rest of the sound. But then I do have rather sensitive ears (cant stand night clubs or concerts most of the time due to this).

Ben
17-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Vacume your carpet man! Haha

What headdeck did you get??

Mad Mat
17-02-2013, 10:45 PM
anymore updates u want to talk about??? ;)

Ice88
18-02-2013, 09:59 PM
Yeah, just need to get the photos off of phonez.

HAIGHIE
19-02-2013, 07:19 PM
yes updates :)

Ice88
27-02-2013, 06:19 PM
So went over to a friend of Mats place and welded up a new exhaust the other weekend. New exhaust is 2.5" from header to muffler. Currently the muffler is the major restriction being 2" but its straight through so free flowing.

http://imageshack.us/a/img195/6910/img0862yn.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img72/1408/img0860c.jpg

Notice my rear parking sensor? + pic of new zaust + old muffler:
http://imageshack.us/a/img10/8654/img0859lk.jpg

Exhaust actually looks like it hits the frame and on an angle but its straight:
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/3593/img0829dk.jpg

Old Pipe Diameter vs New Pipe on right:
http://imageshack.us/a/img24/1140/img0828if.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img171/4025/img0829tu.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/img0829tu.jpg/)

Difference in bends:
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3766/img0827hw.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/img0827hw.jpg/)

Mat n Friend hard at work:
http://imageshack.us/a/img835/9268/img0825yu.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/img0825yu.jpg/)

TheMAN
27-02-2013, 06:33 PM
hey! what happened to the big pictures? I can't see anything now! :p

project.r.racing
27-02-2013, 07:12 PM
the welds look like they could do with some love from a grinder.

TheMAN
27-02-2013, 08:00 PM
that's what happens with MIG welds, it's hard to make it pretty
I'm more concerned about those rusty pipes though!

Ice88
27-02-2013, 08:45 PM
Yeah just wasnt time to weld, sand and paint in the day.

Exhaust will be dropped in April, given a nice sand and spray with some black high temp paint :) Except for cat, I want that thing to shine like a star, don't want some copper defecting me for no cat cause they cant see it.

Curiously its interesting to note how the lower rpms don't feel to be too badly affected its more the low mid rpm that seems to be affected. There's just that increase in doughiness that wasn't there before.

EDIT: TheMAN, yeah I uploaded the photos in two batches and forgot to resize one set :P

Will post some more photos of some new gear that Ill be picking up tomorrow ;)

Mad Mat
27-02-2013, 09:34 PM
Haha nice pictures man :)

project.r.racing
28-02-2013, 08:19 AM
The welds will be very rusty April. And once you have rust, you wont get rid ot it without acid.

Ice88
14-04-2013, 10:00 PM
The following is an ever expanding list of New gear I've bought:
Mazdaspeed Familia Calipers (Same as MSP)
Hawk HPS Pads
Black Mazda Wheel nuts. Not made anymore afaik? So quite excited to install them, should offset the gold quite nicely.
Carbing Rear Strut Brace
Samco Radiator Hoses - Blue
CR3 Motorsport Radiator Brackets

Prolly wont be able to buy any new parts, finish any of the current plans for a while. Need to get finances in order in case im without a job :)

Ice88
18-04-2013, 07:09 AM
Pulled apart the FS-ZE manifold on the weekend to fix it. Unfortunatley still need to replace the EGR with a non ****ed version, the IAC with a unbroken version and and a black think thats connected to the fuel line.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1183/img6287x.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7649/img6288e.jpg
Engines roughly 40k old, valves looking pretty toasty:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1162/img6291o.jpg
****ed IAC:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2567/img6293ag.jpg
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2789/img6294r.jpg

And all back together, just need to repalce the aforementioned items:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9384/img6295li.jpg

Good news. I got the job, so will be getting a camera with next pay so expect more photos of stuff as it happens :) Engine build wont occur till ive paid off my CC which should be this weeks pay :)

Ice88
03-05-2013, 10:38 AM
Updated first page with my new purchases:
- Japanese Sport20 HID Headlights
- Short Shifter
- Qford Bushes
- GTX 5th Gear - Might be too lower gearing though

Still needed:
- Speed Sensor
- ECU
- Mfactory LSD

Will try take some photos tonight of the headlights, hope to finish earlier enough to get home paint headlights before installing them this weekend :D

maz sp20
03-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Updated first page with my new purchases:
- Japanese Sport20 HID Headlights
- Short Shifter
- Qford Bushes
- GTX 5th Gear - Might be too lower gearing though

Still needed:
- Speed Sensor
- ECU
- Mfactory LSD

Will try take some photos tonight of the headlights, hope to finish earlier enough to get home paint headlights before installing them this weekend :D

Nice update, how long do you think it will be till it's done and dusted :)

Mad Mat
03-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Nice update, how long do you think it will be till it's done and dusted :)

9 months ;):D

Ice88
03-05-2013, 11:50 AM
Lol when i saw you post I was expecting a comment like never :P

Honestly I hope to have engine done in the next 2 months. Rest of the car will come together over a longer period of time.

I need to start progressing on the core of the car so that I feel like the cars progressing atm the pile of parts just keeps getting bigger...

Ice88
13-06-2013, 10:44 AM
Apparently my Brakes have been sitting at the GSL warehouse and no ones done anything about it. They ran outta the fluid I ordered, but didn't phone me to offer an alternate product or rang to let me know. As much as people have a good experience with these guys, I won't be ordering from them again. Was originally only going to be 2 weeks, its now been 5.

On a side note, might see if I can install my new brakes this weekend

Mad Mat
13-06-2013, 10:54 AM
Was that greg that you were ordering it all thru or Nathan ???

Clean_Cookie
13-06-2013, 12:09 PM
Greg is good. His mate has ordered wrong parts for me before... so I have found elsewhere to spend my money.

project.r.racing
13-06-2013, 12:59 PM
Gave up waiting for my free bottle of brake fluid many months ago. I know stock was low at one stage, but it's been listed as available on their website for months. Didn't really complain as it was free in the first place anyway.

marcs_sp20
13-06-2013, 01:43 PM
I try to always order stuff straight through Greg, but then again i know him more on a personal level..

Cant compain with my 2 free bottles of brake fluid though lol :D

Ice88
13-06-2013, 01:50 PM
Yah fair nuff. I don't mind waiting for stuff, but was told two weeks, rang up after three and was told that it should be bout another week and that he'd ring back with details. Never heard back but ok, another week or so I can do that.

But its been longer then that and to find my order which I've been waiting for 5 Weeks (ordered 9th) for is sitting in a warehouse and no ones contacted me is annoying. I'm not mad or anything but don't particularly like having to chase up stuff that I've bought.

EDIT: @Mat was ordered through Matt :)

Mad Mat
13-06-2013, 02:36 PM
Yah fair nuff. I don't mind waiting for stuff, but was told two weeks, rang up after three and was told that it should be bout another week and that he'd ring back with details. Never heard back but ok, another week or so I can do that.

But its been longer then that and to find my order which I've been waiting for 5 Weeks (ordered 9th) for is sitting in a warehouse and no ones contacted me is annoying. I'm not mad or anything but don't particularly like having to chase up stuff that I've bought.

EDIT: @Mat was ordered through Matt :)

And have u checked ur phone??? ;-) u have brakes pads and fluid waiting for u at the usual pick up location

Ice88
14-06-2013, 06:45 AM
Yah I checked, just thought I'd best clarify what occurred.

*shrug*

Thanks mat btw :D

Ice88
17-06-2013, 12:47 PM
Fitted my new brake setup to the front yesterday, brake upgrade consists of the following:
- Mazdaspeed Familai/Protege Calipers
- DBA Street Series Rotors - Slotted (274mm Front (Mazda 6 GG Rotor))
- DBA Street Series Rotors - Slotted (280mm Rear (Mazda 6 GG Rotor))
- Hawk HPS Pads

Will be using Penrite DOT 4 Racing fluid. Should stop a fair bit better :) Not really needed that much currently but with the new engine will be a nice upgrade :)

Also fitted my new rays lug nuts to the front.

Heres the end result:
http://i.imgur.com/G5Bmb04l.jpg (http://imgur.com/G5Bmb04)

Unfortunatley iPhone photos leave much to be desired, looks much nicer in person :)

Ice88
26-06-2013, 12:28 PM
Camera rocked up the other day :D Thanks phil :)

Had a few dramas with the battery not charging but has been resolved. Picked up an SD Card today so will take some proper photos of the brake setup tonight, to show.

Also baked my headlights on the weekend, painted the shrouds and started assembly last night. May have lost one of the clips that holds the bulb in. :/

As such I may end up with one HID headlight and one non HID headlight :p. Will see if an SP20 clip will work or the original turns up :)

Will also take some photos of the sexi lights tonight. Lenses are in good condition but not perfect :(

marcs_sp20
26-06-2013, 02:01 PM
Not sure if you'd be able to use an SP20 shroud, as light refraction is different to the hid shrouds, Edwin or Dan would be able to tell you.. Did it just come loose, or break like mine did?

What color did you go with? Please say black :D

Ice88
26-06-2013, 02:27 PM
The shrouds are good. One of the tabs that holds the shroud to the lens is missing though, seems the lights have been disassembled before...

I know the reflectors are different wasn't aware the shrouds were as well *shrug*

Just the clip that holds the HID bulb in place is missing :(

BG1.8sp
26-06-2013, 02:29 PM
just saw the post about your brakes.
are you sure GG? because GG is 273.. and the GY (well GG wagon i suppose you could call it lol) was the 282mm rotor.
and GG, GY, GH all used the 280mm rear rotor???

Ice88
26-06-2013, 03:20 PM
just saw the post about your brakes.
are you sure GG? because GG is 273.. and the GY (well GG wagon i suppose you could call it lol) was the 282mm rotor.
and GG, GY, GH all used the 280mm rear rotor???

Got the sizes around the wrong way :) 280mm rear/274mm front.

BG1.8sp
26-06-2013, 04:50 PM
Got the sizes around the wrong way :) 280mm rear/274mm front.

Sweet


Was like... WTF lol

You notice much of a difference from stock sp20 to the 274's?

TheMAN
26-06-2013, 07:05 PM
Pulled apart the FS-ZE manifold on the weekend to fix it. Unfortunatley still need to replace the EGR with a non ****ed version, the IAC with a unbroken version and and a black think thats connected to the fuel line.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1183/img6287x.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7649/img6288e.jpg
Engines roughly 40k old, valves looking pretty toasty:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1162/img6291o.jpg
****ed IAC:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2567/img6293ag.jpg
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2789/img6294r.jpg

And all back together, just need to repalce the aforementioned items:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9384/img6295li.jpg

Good news. I got the job, so will be getting a camera with next pay so expect more photos of stuff as it happens :) Engine build wont occur till ive paid off my CC which should be this weeks pay :)

why did you remove the butterflies? if not, why did you remove the screws? the FS-ZE has no issues with the screws falling out, unlike FS-DEs... the design of the FS-ZE butterflies are far superior to the FS-DE

now that you have the screws out, you better use loctite blue on them! you need to also torque them down to 1Nm!

Ice88
04-07-2013, 10:39 AM
why did you remove the butterflies? if not, why did you remove the screws? the FS-ZE has no issues with the screws falling out, unlike FS-DEs... the design of the FS-ZE butterflies are far superior to the FS-DE

now that you have the screws out, you better use loctite blue on them! you need to also torque them down to 1Nm!

Ummm The plate that connects to the actuator on the the manifold broke in shipping so needed to use an unbroken rod. That meant undoing the valves so that we could get it out and then reassembling. Plenty of lock tight was used :)

Sweet


Was like... WTF lol

You notice much of a difference from stock sp20 to the 274's?

Not sure, cars still on Jack stands atm. Bleeding brakes tomorrow so will let you know. Honestly didn't use my brakes all that much as I've never had great brakes in any of my cars so have used gearing mostly.

Othernews, finished wiring up the new headlights. Will upload some shots of the test harness Mat wired up to test the headlights. Will take some photos tomorrow on my day off of the new headlights on the car and wired up.

Also, got a phone call from the engine shop. Apparently the bearing tangs for an FS aren't right for the rod despite the modifications made. So it was decided that 3SGTE bearings would be tried unfortunately the modifications made to the rod mean that 3SGTE bearings won't work due to tolerances being to loose, and tightening them further will cause pinching.

The solution involves using oversized 3SGTE bearings and modifying the crank journal or bearing to fit. Upside is that the bearing combination will result in a much tighter clearance meaning better oil lubrication. (Due to FS's oil system). Will help support the high rpms Im wanting to run on the finished build.

Downside is it will prolly end up being expensive :(

(I may have some of the above incorrect it was rather early for me when they phoned so brain wasn't what I'd call awake yet :p)

TheMAN
04-07-2013, 02:54 PM
so did you use the identical style of butterfly rod? The FS-DE ones are not the same and are rubbish!

Ice88
04-07-2013, 03:49 PM
Yeah the rods from another FS-ZE manifold :)

Ice88
14-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Hey Guys,

Quick update before I try and bleed the air out of my master cylinder.

Headlights:
All the parts from a Sport20 HID:
http://i.imgur.com/AJMbadZl.jpg (http://imgur.com/AJMbadZ)

Back side of a Sport 20 HID Headlight:
http://i.imgur.com/MEajq67l.jpg (http://imgur.com/MEajq67)
http://i.imgur.com/BC3PDvsl.jpg (http://imgur.com/BC3PDvs)

Before Painting:
http://i.imgur.com/c5fKJBil.jpg (http://imgur.com/c5fKJBi)

During Painting:
http://i.imgur.com/rmjWOXzl.jpg (http://imgur.com/rmjWOXz)
http://i.imgur.com/xnFG9XDl.jpg (http://imgur.com/xnFG9XD)
The slight shimmer:
http://i.imgur.com/N7oaJSfl.jpg (http://imgur.com/N7oaJSf)

The new brake setup:
New Front vs Old Front:
http://i.imgur.com/TkzHqmel.jpg (http://imgur.com/TkzHqme)

Old vs New:
http://i.imgur.com/3fozacol.jpg (http://imgur.com/3fozaco)
(apologies for the slight blurr)

Ice88
18-07-2013, 10:02 AM
WIN :D

Just heard back from the workshop, car has been fixed. Funny thing is it took longer to get the car on the Hoist then to fix the problem :p

Car might be a little low....

Rhys
18-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Good to hear! I was too scared to change my fluid due to this when I was putting new brakes in last weekend..
What was the problem?

Mad Mat
18-07-2013, 11:52 AM
Good to hear! I was too scared to change my fluid due to this when I was putting new brakes in last weekend..
What was the problem?

Installation issue lol

Ice88
18-07-2013, 12:37 PM
In IT we call it PEBKAC :(

Mad Mat
18-07-2013, 01:14 PM
In IT we call it PEBKAC :(

There was no keyboard tho.. I call it and ID10T error ;-)

Ben
18-07-2013, 02:14 PM
Those brakes. Hot. Those calipers. Need that colour. Did you paint them??

Funny about the hoist. When i got tyres not that long ago, took them longer to figure out how to get it on the hoist. In the end they just jacked it up manually haha.

Ice88
18-07-2013, 02:57 PM
There was no keyboard tho.. I call it and ID10T error ;-)

Yah cept im not an idiot just blonde...

Those brakes. Hot. Those calipers. Need that colour. Did you paint them??

Funny about the hoist. When i got tyres not that long ago, took them longer to figure out how to get it on the hoist. In the end they just jacked it up manually haha.

Yeah I painted them :) Rattle can job, a few coats though. Could prolly have done with a few more in places :(

Here's hoping there awesome! They were rather expensive, would recommend getting mazda6 brakes over them purely for this reason alone...

Hammo
18-07-2013, 04:01 PM
Yah cept im not an idiot just blonde...

Hahaha

Glad the issue is all sorted now

Ben
18-07-2013, 05:32 PM
Yah cept im not an idiot just blonde...



Yeah I painted them :) Rattle can job, a few coats though. Could prolly have done with a few more in places :(

Here's hoping there awesome! They were rather expensive, would recommend getting mazda6 brakes over them purely for this reason alone...

Whats the blue?/where from? Im keen for blue haha.

Mad Mat
19-07-2013, 08:10 AM
Whats the blue?/where from? Im keen for blue haha.

it was a can i had from back in the day when i did my brakes. its an awesome looking blue :)

Ice88
19-07-2013, 08:20 AM
^^ This.

Whats the blue?/where from? Im keen for blue haha.

Will take a look at the can when I get home :)

Updated first page to reflect current status of the car.

marcs_sp20
19-07-2013, 08:55 AM
Looks like Cyan Blue to me ;)

Good to see the car progressing now Kris, whats the plans for your old springs/struts? (not in the market, just curious)

Mad Mat
19-07-2013, 09:00 AM
Decomissioned:
Espelir Springs - Linear
Tokico HP Blues - Front & Rear

you forgot to add sp20 rims and standard exhaust to the list ;)

Ice88
19-07-2013, 09:55 AM
Looks like Cyan Blue to me ;)

Good to see the car progressing now Kris, whats the plans for your old springs/struts? (not in the market, just curious)

Not sure. Was keeping them in case I didn't like the coil overs.

But so far im liking the lack of roll. Prolly wont go any stiffer then current settings though 18-22. Id prefer to retain as much DD in my suspension as I can :)

So yeah, not sure what to do with them. Problem is there a good bit of gear but have cost me 600ish to setup and are only ~6k old.

Ice88
28-07-2013, 10:33 PM
Some new photos curtious of Mad Mat.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/998056_496429167094439_1917148440_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1005643_496429303761092_1792786415_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s720x720/971890_496429220427767_1927062734_n.jpg

Brakes still looks small inside of the wheels:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/s720x720/1013549_496429257094430_882147755_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q71/s720x720/970795_496429267094429_364031964_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/942741_496429213761101_31011377_n.jpg

Ohh and teaser pic of engine:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/s403x403/1069823_10151811097908000_754155347_n.jpg
(Mines the one on the right) Hope to start assembly soon :D

Link to mad mats photo page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Photography/448018501935506

Ice88
29-07-2013, 06:26 PM
Hey man,

Pretty easy, biggest thing is to take your time when prying them open :)

Just followed the guide here loosley:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?114394-How-To-headlight-black-out-for-P5!

Only differences is I used 600 wet to sand it followed by 800 wet. Then painted it with black paint, no primer. Then just multiple light coats.

Couple more shots of the headlights after they were complete:
http://i.imgur.com/lYLifoQl.jpg (http://imgur.com/lYLifoQ)

The test harness that was whipped up to test the lights:
http://i.imgur.com/k9hdHAOl.jpg (http://imgur.com/k9hdHAO)

The result:
http://i.imgur.com/mXAHQ4Jl.jpg (http://imgur.com/mXAHQ4J)

Ice88
06-09-2013, 11:42 AM
Quick Update. Looks like the threads are rooted in the block, installing the head last night and the head studs just stripped the thread on the block, trying to re torque the studs just results in the studs never getting tight. Taking the engine back to the guys whom did the bottom end, going to put two helacoils in the two stuffed threads and investigate using a bigger bolt for the others

Have some photos of the build process. Also looks like my compression is more then 11:1. Its anywhere from 11.6:1 - 12.14:1 Compression. Logically if these are K1 Pistons with a larger wrist pin then this accounts for the increased compression. Only thing is my rods are 1mm longer. *shrug*

So long as the valve recesses are big enough that the engine rotates, I'll be happy. Does mean I need to look into ECUs sooner rather then later. Still hoping, that utilizing the MSF ECU will give me the ability to put around while I work out the wiring etc.

Have some photos that I'll upload ASAP but not having alot of fun trying to upload from phone...

Hammo
06-09-2013, 04:06 PM
Last edited by Ice88; Today at 12:43 PM. Reason: EDIT: Speeling

hahaha, sucks about the threads man :(

Ice88
06-09-2013, 05:43 PM
Yeah. If all the threads are ****ed then the engine will really need to be disassembled before helacoiling the block.

Then reassemble. fml.

If threads arent ****ed then the torque wrench we are using is way out. Im kinda hoping its the latter as that will bar *far* less painful.

Ice88
08-09-2013, 11:27 AM
This is the source engine from which I stole the nuts off for the Oil Pump, Water Pump and a few bracket bolts. Its a friends old engine that he had the unfortunate disposition of hyrdo locking during the floods IIRC

http://i.imgur.com/oAtu2XAh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/k1fwQZsh.jpg

Cleaning the Block surface ready for the head:
http://i.imgur.com/YecTpYU.jpg

Engine with water pump, oil pump and some of the pulleys:
http://i.imgur.com/HkEDoOu.jpg

Check out the flushness yo:
http://i.imgur.com/XmTL7r9.jpg

One of the bolts shortly after stripping the thread in the block:
http://i.imgur.com/rCvBMhy.jpg

Clean_Cookie
08-09-2013, 03:39 PM
Love your sorrowful look you're supporting in the background :-(

TheMAN
08-09-2013, 04:23 PM
which brand of bolts you used? or what brand of studs you used? do you have specifics? it's kind of hard to stuff the threads because this is an iron block

Ice88
08-09-2013, 08:15 PM
Yeah was googling for potential solutions. Cause other then taping a new thread and using bigger bolts I couldn't think of anything :(

Clean_Cookie
08-09-2013, 08:51 PM
s/s Helicoils are popular with new high end Honda builds?

Ice88
08-09-2013, 10:04 PM
Yeah that's prolly what will be happening for the two that we stuffed. But if all the threads need doing then the engine needs to come apart to ensure cleanliness of engine etc.

Hoping two helacoils + some bigger bolts will do the trick...

maztech
09-09-2013, 04:55 AM
Get the Torque Wrench checked !

TheMAN
09-09-2013, 05:35 AM
you either heilcoil a stuffed hole and use the same size bolt as original, or you make the hole bigger and use a larger bolt... you don't do both!

Clean_Cookie
09-09-2013, 06:55 AM
As ed said, you use existing bolts with Helicoils. When was the wrench last calibrated. Should be checked annually or 6monthly if used every day. Always leave it untensioned too!

Mad Mat
09-09-2013, 07:02 AM
Get the Torque Wrench checked !

As ed said, you use existing bolts with Helicoils. When was the wrench last calibrated. Should be checked annually or 6monthly if used every day. Always leave it untensioned too!

We only used the wrench to nip up the bolts at the start. As the manual says.. Tighten the bolts to 17.5-22.5nm (i had the wrench set to 20) then do to runs of 90 degree turns on the bolts. For this i used my 1 meter breaker bar and a degree wheel.

Both the bolts snapped at the 60 degree mark on the second 90 degree run

So i don't believe a brand new wrench would be to blame.

Ice88
09-09-2013, 09:53 AM
you either heilcoil a stuffed hole and use the same size bolt as original, or you make the hole bigger and use a larger bolt... you don't do both!

Apologies. Meant helacoiling those two holes and using bigger bolts in the other holes. Less expensive option and should work just as well. Shall see what happens all depends on thread condition etc.

We only used the wrench to nip up the bolts at the start. As the manual says.. Tighten the bolts to 17.5-22.5nm (i had the wrench set to 20) then do to runs of 90 degree turns on the bolts. For this i used my 1 meter breaker bar and a degree wheel.

Both the bolts snapped at the 60 degree mark on the second 90 degree run

So i don't believe a brand new wrench would be to blame.

Dunno man.

TheMAN
09-09-2013, 10:43 AM
Apologies. Meant helacoiling those two holes and using bigger bolts in the other holes. Less expensive option and should work just as well. Shall see what happens all depends on thread condition etc.



Dunno man.

less expensive? are you daft? different size bolts have different tensile strength! you either go larger on all or you stay the same... why do you want to get something larger with unknown metallurgy? It will either snap horribly or stretch horribly and won't be able to hold the cylinder pressures properly and warp the **** out of the head!

you still haven't told me specifics of what fasteners you used
I now have two new questions for you... whatever you were using, were they new or used? did you add lubricant to the fasteners before installing them?

Simon
09-09-2013, 12:22 PM
Did you use new head bolts? Also, there doesn't really look like there is enough thread (from the block) on the bolt to look like it has stripped the thread. Have you tried cleaning out the threads with a tap? I've had a similar problem before and it turned out I just needed to clean out the threads in the block.

Ice88
09-09-2013, 12:26 PM
The bolts that were used, where brand new stretch bolts that were in a sealed packet. We used oil to lubricate the threads :)

Regarding the bolts, it was a suggestion the end shop had. That's been utilized before for a few engines they've had that had stuffed threads.

tbh man, what solution I go with is based on what the engine shop suggests based on there findings. There reputable company here whom assemble lots of engines, granted doesn't mean they cant make mistakes but they sure as hell have more knowledge and experience then me and will take there suggestions under advisement. They've been nothing but awesome to deal with, granted they took there time and I paid for them to assemble my engine but still *shrug*

Did you use new head bolts? Also, there doesn't really look like there is enough thread (from the block) on the bolt to look like it has stripped the thread. Have you tried cleaning out the threads with a tap? I've had a similar problem before and it turned out I just needed to clean out the threads in the block.

Yeah mat did that before we torqued the head down. And that's what I thought as well, only conclusion I could come to is that there wasn't much thread there to begin with perhaps *shrug*

Will find out soon enough. Will be taking the engine in on Wednesday :)

Simon
09-09-2013, 12:31 PM
Maybe check the length of the bolt, I've generally only ever snapped bolts when they have bottomed out.

TheMAN
09-09-2013, 12:59 PM
WHICH brand of bolts? I'm trying to help you and you're not helping me by not providing specific information?

Ice88
09-09-2013, 01:17 PM
There an Australian brand of bolt called Nason :)

TheMAN
09-09-2013, 04:27 PM
how much you paid for those? how come I have the feeling they are the wrong thread pitch?

for something so important like this, there's zero reason to cheap out... either get the genuine mazda head bolts or get the ARP head studs which are cheaper and better!

Ice88
09-09-2013, 04:34 PM
how much you paid for those? how come I have the feeling they are the wrong thread pitch?

for something so important like this, there's zero reason to cheap out... either get the genuine mazda head bolts or get the ARP head studs which are cheaper and better!

Cant remember. Bought a few things with it, studs are months old.

The studs are for an FP/FS, marked on box. Granted wrong studs can be placed in the box but that isn't a risk unique to Nason.

The mechanics I used to work for used Nason bolts on all sorts of stuff without any problems *shrug*.

TheMAN
09-09-2013, 06:25 PM
if the studs have different thread pitches on each end, then installing the wrong end in will fail

STUDS ARE NOT BOLTS
you tighten studs differently than bolts... a different method is required!
you only tighten bolts per the shop manual

Ice88
09-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Uh. I seriously fail.

Replace studs with bolts in my last post. :/

TheMAN
10-09-2013, 02:48 AM
how much did you spend on the bolts?

Ice88
10-09-2013, 10:19 AM
As I said previously man I don't know.

Bought head gasket, studs and something else.

Ice88
13-09-2013, 09:41 AM
Edwin picked it. Bolts were incorrect, they were to short and to small in diameter.

****s me cause I double checked that box when I bought it and checked it after we stripped the threads. Wrong bolts in the box. If I'd had bought an entire engine I would have had a stud that I could have used to compare of course but had no such thing.

*sigh*. Either way works progressing solidly, should hear back regarding the engine start of next week.

Couldn't sleep last night, and based on maths I did valve clearance will be close. Still not sure how the compression ended up out of spec?

EDIT: Words cannot describe how pissed off I am atm. Im pretty easy going most of the time, but I loathe ****ing up. Other then doing things properly its the one thing that will **** me off in no time at all.

DVS
13-09-2013, 10:51 AM
I know the feel of getting wrong parts in the right box or recieveing wrong ones a supplier had given you. One thing I have learnt is to double check things beforehand but you had nothing to compare it to which sucks. Hopefully you get it sorted without many dramas.

Ice88
23-09-2013, 09:30 AM
Stupid me forgot to send the cam gears and timing belt on Monday. **** thing is I need to get home collect the gear and get to aus post before it closes.

Or alternatively leave work really early. Neither case are doable at this point in time, too much work, same with the small holiday I had planned in Oct.

On a side note, not sure whether I'll be able to finish the engine + swap. I have holidays coming up in February for a week and then meant to be going overseas for 5-6 weeks in April... Need the $$$ for holidays.

Ice88
26-09-2013, 08:26 AM
Shipped Timing Belt and Cam Gears off to Engine Shop yesterday, they should receive them today or early tomorrow.

Still hoping to have the engine complete by November.

Ice88
09-10-2013, 05:57 PM
Engine's finished and valve clearances checked out A-okay.

Will be picking it up tomorrow. Hopefully can finish assembly this week.

Hammo
09-10-2013, 08:11 PM
Let the zoom zoom begin!!

Ice88
10-10-2013, 11:44 AM
Ordered my new ECU today:
- Adaptronic e440D
- Innovate MTX-L Wide Band Kit
- Flex Fuel Sensor

Should arrive sometime next week. Just need to work out what size injectors I need and get a Oil Filter Relocation Kit.

DVS
10-10-2013, 11:50 AM
E85 wooooo

Ice88
10-10-2013, 12:46 PM
Just need to find some stations with the stuff...

marcs_sp20
10-10-2013, 01:08 PM
Caltex E-Flex, should be a couple stations in brisbane that stock it..

Orion
10-10-2013, 01:49 PM
Ordered my new ECU today:
- Adaptronic e440D
- Innovate MTX-L Wide Band Kit
- Flex Fuel Sensor

Should arrive sometime next week. Just need to work out what size injectors I need and get a Oil Filter Relocation Kit.

Some nice bits of kit there.

Do you have any evidence that you will need larger injectors? See as these injectors are the same on the US turbo car, I would have thought that they would have sufficient headroom to handle even a solid NA build.

BG1.8sp
10-10-2013, 02:28 PM
Some nice bits of kit there.

Do you have any evidence that you will need larger injectors? See as these injectors are the same on the US turbo car, I would have thought that they would have sufficient headroom to handle even a solid NA build.

might be enough, consider the E85 too.
i would rather grab a set of WRX injectors, cant remember for the life of me... think 440cc?? or something, and they bolt onto our rails, plug in and are nice and cheap :)
i bought a set from Mad mat years ago, then passed onto andy.

BG1.8sp
10-10-2013, 02:34 PM
220 engine Hp @80% duty = 360.94cc / 34.38Lb/Hr

for E85 see below

34.38 x 1.47 = 50.54

= 530cc

now this should give you some idea of estimated injector size on e85.

i dont know your actual target Hp... but just selected 220Hp at random.

Edit: All above @ 80% duty... good to leave some head room

BG1.8sp
10-10-2013, 02:39 PM
On E85 with bro's evo we have 1100cc FIC injectors.

E85 @ 260 All Wheel kW.

final tune put the 1100cc injectors at about 79% duty

BG1.8sp
10-10-2013, 02:51 PM
also question... why run a flex sensor?
Cant you do dual maps and just push a button switch from 98 map to E85 map?

from the specs

"dual maps which can be toggled with digital input."

just thought it would reduce the dyno time... not totally farmiliar with the adaptronic... seems pretty wicked from what i can tell.
does the "flex sensor" just need 2 maps to be made, 1 for E one for 98? and it "learns" and auto trims for anything inbetween?

or more like the Gm unit which chooses one of 4 maps (which ever is closest)

if its the learning type... awesome!

but if GM type then thought the toggle input would reduce dyno time and cost

EDIT: apologies for the tripple posts... I get excited about ECU's and electronics ;) lol

Orion
10-10-2013, 06:34 PM
220 engine Hp @80% duty = 360.94cc / 34.38Lb/Hr

i dont know your actual target Hp... but just selected 220Hp at random.

Edit: All above @ 80% duty... good to leave some head room

I think those are some ambitious numbers there.

The stock 280cc injectors will handle 180hp at 85% duty cycle. This is a more realistic hp number on 98ron and 85% duty should be ok as he has little scope to upgrade or significantly improve what he already has ;)

BG1.8sp
10-10-2013, 07:31 PM
I think those are some ambitious numbers there.

The stock 280cc injectors will handle 180hp at 85% duty cycle. This is a more realistic hp number on 98ron and 85% duty should be ok as he has little scope to upgrade or significantly improve what he already has ;)

This is just what the guesstimate figure from a formula which every injector company will tell you to use as a guide

Ice88
11-10-2013, 01:49 PM
Some nice bits of kit there.

Do you have any evidence that you will need larger injectors? See as these injectors are the same on the US turbo car, I would have thought that they would have sufficient headroom to handle even a solid NA build.

Thanks :)

Other then the Injector formula below no. And its somewhat confusing due to the reasons you mentioned. Only real reason I'm getting bigger injectors is for E85 as im skeptical of the numbers that Injector companies have come up with.

220 engine Hp @80% duty = 360.94cc / 34.38Lb/Hr

for E85 see below

34.38 x 1.47 = 50.54

= 530cc

now this should give you some idea of estimated injector size on e85.

i dont know your actual target Hp... but just selected 220Hp at random.

Edit: All above @ 80% duty... good to leave some head room

Aiming for ~170 at the wheels. Which is about 190-200 at the fly I think.

also question... why run a flex sensor?
Cant you do dual maps and just push a button switch from 98 map to E85 map?

from the specs

"dual maps which can be toggled with digital input."

just thought it would reduce the dyno time... not totally farmiliar with the adaptronic... seems pretty wicked from what i can tell.
does the "flex sensor" just need 2 maps to be made, 1 for E one for 98? and it "learns" and auto trims for anything inbetween?

or more like the Gm unit which chooses one of 4 maps (which ever is closest)

if its the learning type... awesome!

but if GM type then thought the toggle input would reduce dyno time and cost

EDIT: apologies for the tripple posts... I get excited about ECU's and electronics ;) lol

One reason is that the most common form of E blended fuel is eflex which can be anywhere from 70-85% blend. Obviously the resultant octane level varies based on this, with the sensor the Car knows what % ethanol is in the car.

In regards to what its utilized for with the Adaptronic. The way the adaptronic works from my understanding is that with the presence of the Sensor it works out the ethanol content and adjusts the fueling requirements based on the ethanol. Its possible I believe from a few posts that the maps are able to blend.

i.e. I stumble across a servo with E85, get a tank full. Drive somewhere and want to top up before a mountain run or track day or whatever. Traditionally I'd be sweet out of luck if no e85, what happens is that the fueling requirements alter so that as I head towards a lower percentage concentration it adjusts the fueling etc towards the 98 octane map.

The way it does is simply done via a table that it looks up. I'll see if I can find some screen shots. Haltec do a similiarish thing AFAIK :)

I think those are some ambitious numbers there.

The stock 280cc injectors will handle 180hp at 85% duty cycle. This is a more realistic hp number on 98ron and 85% duty should be ok as he has little scope to upgrade or significantly improve what he already has ;)

180 Hp at the fly or wheels?

The other thing that we are neglecting is that I believe the Injectors we utilise are originally from an RX7. The Denso 440cc (WRX Injectors) are much newer and are meant to have a much better spray pattern.

I've been told the MX6 injectors are an upgrade too as well. Not sure how reliable this information is, personally taken it with a grain of salt.

Clean_Cookie
11-10-2013, 02:07 PM
This is why these ecus are pretty sweet. I'll do the same once it's running. It adjusts on the fly altering the ignition and injector maps.

BG1.8sp
11-10-2013, 02:20 PM
those injector companies calc's are definateley inflated. lol

I actually sent Mat a link to Injector Dynamaics excell calc table today. takes into consideration more factors, and seems to be most accurate.

also remember... boosted cars require different sized injectors to an NA.
example, in that formula... multiplier for 0.50 - 0.55 for NA and multiplier for 0.60 - 0.65 for boosted.

Personally... my call would be to use the Subie 440cc injectors and to up the rail pressure with adjustable FPR for the added compression.

So by the sounds of it.

2 "base maps" are required.
your 98 map, and your E85 map.

then looks up fudge factor table for the flex fuel compensation, as well as a trim learning ability.
Which is awesome... nice ECU choice :) seems the winner for a standalone ! :)

CSR E85 is pretty hard to find.

we are mostly made to use United and caltex Eflex. still good ****... wayyyy better that 98 that's for sure lol!

Ice88
12-10-2013, 07:11 PM
An interesting concept and not something you'd prolly ever hear on this board is that I might be under camed.

Things I still need:
- Fuel Pressure Reg
- WRX Injectors for E85.
- Pick a Tuner
- Fuel Pump for E85

List is in priority of stuff needed. Not sure anyones really reading this but what are peoples thoughts on using GTAe gears + triple cone synchros for first and second?

GT-ae Gears:
3.454:1
2.187:1

FS Gears:
3.307:1
1.842:1

Overall ratios would be:
3.454:1 (GT-ae)
2.187:1 (GT-ae)
1.310:1
0.970:1
0.717:1 (GTX

Means that at 7700 rpm Id be dropping back to 4500 rpm. Based on LW posts on Twiggy Cams that's right at the start of the power band. Not sure what my power band will be like at this stage, so unsure if this will be a good thing or if ill be going on cam to off cam and have some lag.

Darryl, as the resident twiggy cam owner. Thoughts?

Orion
12-10-2013, 10:11 PM
Darryl, as the resident twiggy cam owner. Thoughts?

Twiggy cams should kinda start at 3,000rpm but prolly don't really open up until 4,500rpm.

It might be worth getting your engine in and going before cracking the gearbox open and putting shiny stuff in there. At least then you will know how the engine behaves and what your powerband is :)

TheMAN
13-10-2013, 02:52 AM
agreed

though, the GT-Ae gears will be very nice... 1-3 gears are shot peened, a close ratio setup will be so nice for a high strung N/A motor

you don't really need to use a GT-X 5th gear, you can get a USDM 626 5th gear and it will also work, but I suggest a USDM Protege 5th gear instead in order to maintain your 5th gear highway torque

Ice88
14-10-2013, 12:50 PM
Thanks Guys.

Ice88
17-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Heres a question I proposed while I was trying to sleep last night:

We all know that with shorter rod ratios that the piston spends less time around TDC in comparison to a longer stroked motor. We also know that the stroke of the engine has a direct correlation on the piston acceleration.

That being said I understand that due to this our cars tend to love timing advance. I'm assuming that we love timing because it allows us to overcome the above factors and get a better burn.

Surely the above factors would be a problem in regards to out running the flame front? (At substantially higher rpms ofc) But given that E85 burns faster would that mean that the rpms at which we out run the flame front occurs higher in the rpm? And why is it that generally tuners increase the amount of timing? Granted more timing can equal more power (as E85 allows us to run more timing without detonation) but wouldn't the faster burning mean that we don't need to ignite the mixture as early though as well?

If anyone else has an idea let me know If no one knows I'll spend some time to sit down and more research on E85 *when I can find time* and ponder it on the weekend.

Doesn't really impact my build either way I just get curious about these sorts of things *shrug*

Mad Mat
17-10-2013, 11:23 AM
Kris think about it like this.. E85 burns slower ;)

marcs_sp20
17-10-2013, 08:43 PM
Kris think about it like this.. E85 burns faster ;)

Fixed ;)

http://www.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/how-e85-ethanol-flex-fuel-works.htm

Ice88
19-10-2013, 09:13 AM
Fixed ;)

http://www.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/how-e85-ethanol-flex-fuel-works.htm

Actually mats right.

The logic behind my original train of thought was that due to the structure of ethanol and its cooling properties was that itd vaporise and mix better with the air creating a faster burn due to this.

The reality is that the higher the octane number the slower the frame front.

The reason that you need to consume more E85 over petrol (excuse me if the below isnt 100% right it has been 5 years since I last did chemistry/physics) is the amount of energy that each liquid contains per unit.

To my understanding the amount of energy released is dependent on the structure of the chemical itself. Fuel as we know it is a hard fuel to truly calculate as the fuel itself is complex combination of hyrdocarbons (or also parafins IIRC) which when they ignite result in a greater density then the items which entered the chamber, this along with the act of a controlled explosion is what causes a petrol engine to be as efficient as it is.

Now the amount of energy released from petrol (cant remember if this number represents fuel in its entirity or simply Octane) is 33kj per unit, while the amount of energy released from Ethanol is 25kj per unit.

Thus, why more Ethanol is required to produce similiar to greater amounts of power.

As for why the increase in octane doesnt make sense in regards to Ethanol is that it simply isnt the hydrocarbon octane. You see when we say that we are using whatever value octane it draws the conclusion that there is x percent (depending on where you live) of the hydrocarbon Octane (C8H18) in the fuel we are consuming. Meanwhile Ethanols is C2H6O.

The key point to take away is that they are from the same family but Ehtanol is certainly not Octane and therefore, the statement that E85 has a higher Octane number has to be false, right?

What the industry has done is utilise the term octane to describe a liquids propensity to combust. Higher the value the more stable the liquid.

Which annoys the heck out of me.

EDIT: Oh and you see the addition of the Oxygen molecule to the hydrocarbon of Ethanol? That I think is the reason why E85 is considered to be a cleaner fuel. I havnt worked it out, not sure Ill remember how off the top of my head :S (Which makes me really sad as chemistry was one of my fav subjects at school).

EDIT 2: Oh and the less complex the hydrocarbon the easier it is to vaporise. (In fact CH4 is Methane which is already a gas).

EDIT 3: And yes I realise I've left some chemcial terms out, but trying to keep it simpler to follow then it otherwise would be.

HAIGHIE
20-10-2013, 10:13 AM
Man I love reading all your write ups, chemistry was one of the subjects I actually enjoyed doing in school, so I enjoy reading your hypothical conclusions with trying and learn something and gain a knowledge about it, after all it helps with my line of work with the understanding of the properties in the fuels available to the public, and the running of there cars on them.

Clean_Cookie
20-10-2013, 04:11 PM
Man I love reading all your write ups, chemistry was one of the subjects I actually enjoyed doing in school, so I enjoy reading your hypothical conclusions with trying and learn something and gain a knowledge about it.
This!

ghetto3
20-10-2013, 04:20 PM
As above. Love the hardcore, digging deep attitude.
Just dont watch Breaking Bad and get ideas m,kay!

Ice88
21-10-2013, 12:06 PM
Man I love reading all your write ups, chemistry was one of the subjects I actually enjoyed doing in school, so I enjoy reading your hypothical conclusions with trying and learn something and gain a knowledge about it, after all it helps with my line of work with the understanding of the properties in the fuels available to the public, and the running of there cars on them.

Thanks man.

It may be worth noting that curiously, because FS Engines spend little time around TDC that to get the most power we can from an expansion stroke that we need to ignite the fuel earlier to have a similiar affect to an engine that has a long rod ratio (i.e. K20/F20C/2zz). Because of the way that E85 burns slower, we will require more timing again to get a similiar burn to 98 let alone more power.

I know microtechs from memory have about +45 degrees of timing max or something. (Darryl?) Does this mean that even with aftermarket ecus that the potential is to run out of timing advance in the ECU before reaching the Ideal burn?

I hope that this isn't the case but I may find out soon enough if this is the case :)

This!

Thanks Ryan.

As above. Love the hardcore, digging deep attitude.
Just dont watch Breaking Bad and get ideas m,kay!

I've never actually watched that show tbh.

Drugs are a bit scary for me, at least the illegal kind. Mainly cause im a bit of a misanthrope and because of the effects that they have on people. I tend to find the logic idiotic and the people who take them to lack ambition and drive.

But that's a whole other kettle of fish.

ghetto3
21-10-2013, 12:13 PM
I dont even drink fella, i find it inhibits creativity...and budget somewhat. Call me prudish and you'd be right but my addiction is my car

Caffeine, nicotine, are my only vices to keep in control.
I'm with you on the substance front.:)

Ice88
21-10-2013, 12:19 PM
I dont even drink fella, i find it inhibits creativity...and budget somewhat. Call me prudish and you'd be right but my addiction is my car

Caffeine, nicotine, are my only vices to keep in control.
I'm with you on the substance front.:)

Yeah I don't drink much (in terms of regularity and quantity).

Yeah everyone has there vices, mines good food, car and music. Sustainable vices I think personally :)

But yeah, never understood drug taking its like a temporary fix to feel good about yourself and your life. If your unhappy/stressed change something about your life so that your happy without requiring an addictive and often damaging substance.

But anyways enough with my off topic posts.

HAIGHIE
21-10-2013, 10:51 PM
So exactly how I look at poeple who take drugs, I have absolutely nothing what so ever to do with anyone who chooses to take drugs, it disgusts me and I hate it, like I get a really ( kinda hard to explain) but as soon as I know of some one taking them or hear about them, I go into this zone where all I want to do it leave and never ever associate with that person/ persons ever again, I just hate it that much. And I go quite for about 2 hours.

But this is off topic. Keep up the questional theory's I enjoy lissening and trying to help solve them. I wished things like this would cross my mine but I'm just to off minded that I don't think of a problem or worry about these types of things.


Yeah I don't drink much (in terms of regularity and quantity).

Yeah everyone has there vices, mines good food, car and music. Sustainable vices I think personally :)

But yeah, never understood drug taking its like a temporary fix to feel good about yourself and your life. If your unhappy/stressed change something about your life so that your happy without requiring an addictive and often damaging substance.

But anyways enough with my off topic posts.

ghetto3
21-10-2013, 11:39 PM
The m'kay bit was in between the lines for 'drugs are bad, m,kay'!!! Anyway just reread entire build thread and realized its an NA BUILD!!!

Sweet. Always drooled over Orions spec list, and now this one . Good work on the adaptronic, the 440s are gaining popularity worldwide now it seems and Andy is an absolute guru, quite willing to offer advice and support.
Keep us up to date on your choice of tuner if you're willing to disclose that info, thats on my need to do list as well.

Ice88
06-11-2013, 07:25 AM
Hoping this is the last of the parts that I need but ordered last night:
- Low temp thermostat (Unfortunatley the MS thermostat isn't made anymore :()
- MSP Oil Cooler Kit
- Thermostat Gasket
- Bushings Kit for Gearbox should complement my Qford kit nicely.

I honestly cant think of anything else I need.

Mad Mat
06-11-2013, 09:04 AM
Hoping this is the last of the parts that I need but ordered last night:
- Low temp thermostat (Unfortunatley the MS thermostat isn't made anymore :()
- MSP Oil Cooler Kit
- Thermostat Gasket
- Bushings Kit for Gearbox should complement my Qford kit nicely.

I honestly cant think of anything else I need.

There is a MazdaSpeed Protege oil cooler kit :0 since when???

psst you forgot beer/scotch to pay for mechanical work taking place in the next 3 weeks ;-)

Ice88
06-11-2013, 09:19 AM
Since the MSP came out. Sits on the back of the block and uses coolant to cool the oil. Not quite as effective as an air cooler but a good air cooler with thermostat was going to cost around 400 dollars. Plus relocation kit.

This will be simpler, effective and has the benefit of being less pipe and therefore less pressure drop in comparison :)

Regarding scotch, that doesn't fall under parts ;)

Mad Mat
06-11-2013, 09:28 AM
Since the MSP came out. Sits on the back of the block and uses coolant to cool the oil. Not quite as effective as an air cooler but a good air cooler with thermostat was going to cost around 400 dollars. Plus relocation kit.

This will be simpler, effective and has the benefit of being less pipe and therefore less pressure drop in comparison :)

Regarding scotch, that doesn't fall under parts ;)

ow one of those things.. yer the series 1 BP's, BPT's, BPD's had these.. i have one somewhere at home actually lol.. where do the water lines come from and did you order them too??

so i take it no more oil cooler just the relaction kit??? and the extra line for the return line??

Ice88
06-11-2013, 09:41 AM
I ordered the complete kit from Edwin.

And correct. Make life easier :)

Mad Mat
06-11-2013, 09:45 AM
I ordered the complete kit from Edwin.

And correct. Make life easier :)

awesome :)

dont forget run in oil, oil filters, and scotch.. ESPECIALLY DONT FORGET THE SCOTCH ;)

Mad Mat
06-11-2013, 09:51 AM
lol man its getting close to my guess haha http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=324319&postcount=74

Ice88
08-11-2013, 10:59 AM
Ordered:
- 4.5 Metres Aeroflow 450 Series Black Tubing
- 3 60 degree bends.
- 5 Straights.
Total posted: $360 :(

Now I remember why I don't buy stuff off ebay.

Ice88
19-11-2013, 10:42 PM
Pressure Release Valve + Fittings:
http://i.imgur.com/ODC1pi0l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O9GR8m1l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DFEPfWvl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mBMR8Dtl.jpg

Recent Photos of the car out and about:
http://i.imgur.com/vbNBhnPl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JUoY9lhl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ewuYZeVl.jpg

Mad Mat
20-11-2013, 07:58 AM
can't you read the sign kris...

KEEP LEFT

GOSH "faceparm"

Ice88
20-11-2013, 08:39 AM
Not from behind the sign I cant no :P

Rupewrecht
20-11-2013, 09:02 AM
Looking really good in those pics :)

ghetto3
20-11-2013, 09:11 AM
If you need heat shielding for that hose hit me up.
I needed a 1' section and could only buy it in 4.5m lengths. Figured i'd use it one day but nooo!
It's aeroflow stuff, expensive but free to you if you need.

Oh and looks sick bro. The blacked out grille surround is a sweet touch.

Ice88
20-11-2013, 10:10 AM
Looking really good in those pics :)

Thanks Rupe.

Once moneys been put away for Europe trip will be contacting you to set me up with some new rims :)

Going to have some paint touch up done and hopefully get a professional detail to bring the paint up to shiney :)

If you need heat shielding for that hose hit me up.
I needed a 1' section and could only buy it in 4.5m lengths. Figured i'd use it one day but nooo!
It's aeroflow stuff, expensive but free to you if you need.

Oh and looks sick bro. The blacked out grille surround is a sweet touch.

Thanks man. Honestly, not sure I'll need it.

In general, other then warm up the decrease in oil temp is welcomed. The Oil cooler should help with that, but mountain runs can make the car quite toasty :)

Mad Mat
20-11-2013, 10:56 AM
In general, other then warm up the decrease in oil temp is welcomed. The MSP water to air Oil cooler should help with that, but mountain runs can make the car quite toasty :)

fixed :p;)

Ice88
20-11-2013, 12:23 PM
Thanks man. Honestly, not sure I'll need it.

In general, other then warm up the decrease in oil temp is welcomed. The MSP water to Oil, Oil cooler should help with that, but mountain runs can make the car quite toasty :)

fixed :p;)

Fixed the fix. The second medium isn't air, its oil. i.e. water to air intercoolers utilise the first medium to cool the second. ;):p

Unless your trying to imply that the oil wont stay inside the engine. In which case, that's not very nice :p

Ice88
13-12-2013, 10:24 AM
Engine turns over.

Just need to wire up the oil pressure gauge and wideband. Before starting it the sarv hopefully :)

Hammo
13-12-2013, 12:26 PM
Woooo

Ice88
20-12-2013, 09:58 AM
So I think we may actually use the same trigger settings as the MX5s, they use a 4+2 trigger.

Which from what I can tell is 4 teeht Crank Angle, with 2 magnets on the cam that tell the ecu when to reset and start the firing order again. (i.e. the home).

Orion
20-12-2013, 11:09 AM
So I think we may actually use the same trigger settings as the MX5s, they use a 4+2 trigger.

Which from what I can tell is 4 teeht Crank Angle, with 2 magnets on the cam that tell the ecu when to reset and start the firing order again. (i.e. the home).

Yes, that is correct.
I think the 1.6L settings are the best to use from memory.

Ice88
20-12-2013, 03:44 PM
Interesting did not know this.

Thanks Orion.

I'm hesitant to post this but, expected better communication from CMR and a little more from them given they 'do 10 of these a week'. Didn't know the trigger settings (which is fine) so contacted adaptronic, hadn't even looked at the crank wheel or even the cam wheel to work it out themselves... Just frustrating :(

I was told by Lordworm that the trigger was 4+3, but quickly realised that it must be false. There are 3 magents on the cam gear. Havnt worked out what the 3rd is for yet, if i had to guess its to mark the 2nd ignition event. Then the two magnets to reset the process as the cam gear turns twice for every revolution of the crank.

Orion
20-12-2013, 04:05 PM
Interesting did not know this.

Thanks Orion.

I was told by Lordworm that the trigger was 4+3, but quickly realised that it must be false. There are 3 magents on the cam gear. Havnt worked out what the 3rd is for yet, if i had to guess its to mark the 2nd ignition event. Then the two magnets to reset the process as the cam gear turns twice for every revolution of the crank.

There are three pickup points on the cam gear but they are better described as the trigger (single magnet) and 'home' (two magnet) reference points.

Make sure that you ensure a clean signal for the CAS and CKS readings. This can be achieved using RF-insulated tube. Haltech also use a Reluctor module to help clean up the signal.

Ice88
13-01-2014, 03:47 PM
Im only slightly stuck.

Engine won't crank. I just dont get it. Other then Crank Sensor/Trigger Wheel and the Cam Sensor I dont understand why it wouldn't start other then ECU settings.

The cam gears I got from Orion whom got them from Focus so they should work :/ And the crank wheel AFAIK is brand new.

ghetto3
13-01-2014, 05:57 PM
Hows the brainstorming going?
Any positive results or conclusions reached?

Orion
13-01-2014, 06:12 PM
Im only slightly stuck.

Engine won't crank. I just dont get it. Other then Crank Sensor/Trigger Wheel and the Cam Sensor I dont understand why it wouldn't start other then ECU settings.

The cam gears I got from Orion whom got them from Focus so they should work :/ And the crank wheel AFAIK is brand new.

What sounds can you hear?
ie Can you hear/see fuel pump, starter motor, injectors, coils working?

Just trying to see where in the ignition process it gets to. I'm assuming stock ecu as well.

ghetto3
13-01-2014, 08:56 PM
He's got a 440!? Thought about a 12/1 or 36/1 wheel and getting rid of cam crankiness?

Ice88
14-01-2014, 08:38 AM
What sounds can you hear?
ie Can you hear/see fuel pump, starter motor, injectors, coils working?

Just trying to see where in the ignition process it gets to. I'm assuming stock ecu as well.

I dont have the car infront of me.

Apparently the car starts once and then stops. Going to see what they did regarding wiring for the CKS and CAS.

Ice88
14-01-2014, 09:04 AM
It's ALIVEEEEE *Muaaaaaaah*

Hopefully no further problems arise.

Hammo
14-01-2014, 09:12 AM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/106/887/backpain-1292835351.jpg

Ice88
14-01-2014, 09:25 AM
Wonder how lumpy it sounds.

I'd honestly love to hear it sounding kinda like Orions pre Microtech:
http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/orion_3582/?action=view&current=MOV00589.mp4
http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/orion_3582/?action=view&current=MOV00588.mp4

Prolly a little rough though.

TheMAN
14-01-2014, 01:00 PM
He's got a 440!? Thought about a 12/1 or 36/1 wheel and getting rid of cam crankiness?

agreed...
the non-US FS-DE crank pulley is a crappy 4 tooth pulley... low resolution, so imprecise fueling and ignition

upgrading to the high resolution 36/1 USDM FS-DE crank pulley will improve efficiency of the engine... even miata guys have swapped their BP pulleys out in favour of a USDM ZM-DE crank pulley

http://www.miataturbo.net/adaptronic-63/36-1-t-protoge-trigger-wheel-76831/

Ice88
14-01-2014, 01:03 PM
In regards to everyones question. Yes I had considered it.

The higher resolution would be nice, specially as the engine spins faster. But wasnt sure how the stock ecu would handle idling etc with a different trigger pattern.

TheMAN
14-01-2014, 01:06 PM
only one way to find out!
you can use the adaptronic to control the idle too

Mad Mat
14-01-2014, 01:28 PM
agreed...
the non-US FS-DE crank pulley is a crappy 4 tooth pulley... low resolution, so imprecise fueling and ignition

upgrading to the high resolution 36/1 USDM FS-DE crank pulley will improve efficiency of the engine... even miata guys have swapped their BP pulleys out in favour of a USDM ZM-DE crank pulley

http://www.miataturbo.net/adaptronic-63/36-1-t-protoge-trigger-wheel-76831/

really. hmm can u get a zm-de underdrive pully??? as this might be a go for my Bp build.

lukeyprotege
14-01-2014, 01:41 PM
Congrats kris you must be wrapped

Ice88
14-01-2014, 02:03 PM
only one way to find out!
you can use the adaptronic to control the idle too

I can yes. But if the idle control code isnt sophisticated enough or doesnt reference the sensors quick enough the car will stall.

This is the problem with the microtech and the twiggy cams AFAIK.

really. hmm can u get a zm-de underdrive pully??? as this might be a go for my Bp build.

No need for a ZM-DE Pulley, just use a flyin miatia pulley?

Mad Mat
14-01-2014, 02:05 PM
No need for a ZM-DE Pulley, just use a flyin miatia pulley?

Flying miata dont make crank pullies AFAIK. I have Flying miata cam gears tho.

TheMAN
14-01-2014, 06:36 PM
and you wouldn't want a "performance" pulley for the BP anyway if you don't want to stuff your oil pump

anyway, I can get a new stock pulley.... I'm making a shipment soon, so if you want to save postage, then PM me now with your VIN

HAIGHIE
14-01-2014, 08:38 PM
when's ETC???

Ice88
21-01-2014, 04:13 PM
I reallllllly need to update this....

Short of it is, car should be getting tuned tomorrow. Hopefully no more issues arise...

Ice88
26-01-2014, 08:50 PM
OK so ive been quite slack with updating this and taking photos.

This has mostly been to the rushed nature it was to get the car back on the road in readiness for Christmas, and after that the frustration at the various hurdles that have cropped. First a recounting of the narrative up to this moment.

In november the car was taken off the road, for the engine swap. As per normal there were a few issues that arose that were easily transversed but soaked up their fair share of valuable time. The engine did however come out quite easily, 2-3 nights of work (working till sundown (~2 hrs).
http://imageshack.com/a/url593/5065/xzpj.jpg

The gearbox was then taken to a gearbox mechanic to have the gearbox serviced while it was out. While it was there the synchros were sanded back smooth, third gear was fixed, the stock diff replaced with my Mfactory LSD, new seals and bearings. The box was also painted silver and has come up really nice.

Unfortunatley once the box was back there were a few hold ups. From the states I required my MSP Oil Cooler, Thermostat, Thermostat gaskets and water lines for the MSP kit. New heater hoses were also installed due to the age of the hoses and how much of a PITA they are to install when the engines in the car.
http://imageshack.com/a/url690/7536/oita.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/url812/9168/vxbt.jpg

The engine and gearbox were finally assembled and together in middle of December last year. It took a day to prep and install the engine IIRC. This was done farily easily. Problems arose when we went to start the car, was quite scary at the time. The engine woild turn over but failed to start. Quickly discovered that when the shop redid the timing after fixing the head from the snapped bolt incident that the cams were 180 degrees out. After many a frustrations with retiming the engine. The car started started only for seconds later for the oil filter to pop its seal causing oil to spray everywhere in the engine bay. At this point I was frankly stumped, I mean what reason would it have to do this. Everything had been double chacked to ensure that it was hookedup, tried various settings on the PRV. In the end i pulled apart the PRV in hope of finding out how it worked and in the end finding a solution to the problem as the oil filter was clearly receiving too much pressure. Only to discover that in the months that had passed the PRV had surface rust on the piston that is used to relieve pressure. As the unit was seized it wasnt bleeding pressure off sending it all to the Oil filter and popping the seal. Cleaned it up with some 1200 grit. Lubed it with some oil and ressammbled. Problem solved.

The second issue we faced after this is that the engine wouldnt idle. Not even hunt and die. Just full on, revs drop and engine would die straight away. This combined with the AFRs we were seeing meant that I bit the bullet and decided to get the Adaptronic installed and tuned early.

I booked it in with a local shop whom had experience working on these ecus on Lotus Elises. Initially it was thought to only take a couple of days. However, there were various complications along the way. Some I think could have been avoided, others I think I was lucky to have had it with a garage. Unfortunatley the work around that many utilise to keep the stock alternator when going aftermarkte doesnt seem to work with the Aussie cars/ adaptronic. As such a 626 alternator was purchased and installed. They've done a really neat job which is nice. Can't even tell which I'm extremely happy with.

The end result of the tune is that the adaptronic controls everything but the dash. Fans etc etc. I finally got the car back on wednesday this week. There are a few issues which I've been working on since then, weather unfortunatley hasnt been on my side (its been sunny for like 2 months, soon as i get car back down it comes (not happy)):
- Oil leak from around the pump. **** of a job to fix. Extractors, oil sump, mbsp, timing belt, crank wheel all need to come off to reseal the Oil Pump.
- Gearbox Diff Seals - By the time i got the car home we had to push it into the drive way. Car wouldnt go into first in his street.
- Oil Leak from around sump. Bolt missing. Added bolt all fixed.

In the end I made 171?whp after dynojet correctsions applied to the below dyno chart. Interesting thing is that this all occurs before 7k rpm. Anyone wanna help me with why the car drops off before 7k? Is it lack of head flow (i.e. head related)? Or cams? I know that im not running a hell of a lot of timing. (Tuner was adding 12-24 degrees with no response? Thoughts?).
http://imageshack.com/a/url829/7645/bvjv.jpg

List of things to tidy up:
- Engine Bay Degrease
- Engine Bay Brackets Cleaning
- Fix the battery relocation so that it uses wingnuts and bolts instead of screws.

Would like to thank Mad Mat, Phildough and TheMAN for all there help. Couldnt have done it without you guys :)

TheMAN
26-01-2014, 09:13 PM
wtf? you still have the stock midpipe? that will rob tonnes of power!

also, I noticed your knock sensor is looking pretty stuffed... if it's still functional it won't be long... you can prevent it from going bad by sealing it up with the silicone RTV sealant... it works

speaking of knock sensors, did you get a J&S safeguard yet? you'll need it to keep the engine from getting stuffed from a bad tank of petrol!

Ice88
26-01-2014, 09:51 PM
wtf? you still have the stock midpipe? that will rob tonnes of power!

also, I noticed your knock sensor is looking pretty stuffed... if it's still functional it won't be long... you can prevent it from going bad by sealing it up with the silicone RTV sealant... it works

speaking of knock sensors, did you get a J&S safeguard yet? you'll need it to keep the engine from getting stuffed from a bad tank of petrol!

Hey Edwin,

Its actually a 2.5" mid pip we just borrowed the end off the stock pipe and enlarged it to suit. Pimary reason is that the autoexe headers have that rounded head like the stock pipe uses.

Yeah knock sensor has seen better days. Im actually going to replace it in the near future. Just need to recover from the bill shock a bit first >.<

Not sure about the J&S tbh, I know of the benefits. But currently there are other priorities for my money such as fixing it, rego and europe.

TheMAN
26-01-2014, 10:32 PM
I don't know about you, but protecting an expensive motor from getting stuffed seems like a priority to me... it's relatively cheap insurance... I KNOW for sure it has saved my motor a few times from an old tank of petrol

Ice88
26-01-2014, 10:41 PM
As I said I know the benefits and agree, but there are certain truths that are inescapable.

The Adaptronic has knock sensor built and granted may not be as good as the J&S but it is something.

Orion
27-01-2014, 01:56 AM
I was thinking about the flattening power curve and wondered if it had anything to do with spark. I know the high boost can blow out the spark at higher rpm's and am just wondering if high compression can do the same.

Maybe you could try different spark plug gaps and see if that helps.

TheMAN
27-01-2014, 03:57 PM
of course it can
turbos add compression artificually

poor fuel quality, insufficient fueling, high combustion temperatures, exhaust flow reversions from excessive cam overlap are some of the things that promote detonation or preignition or both... this requires timing to be retarded in order for the engine to not detonate/preignite... due to the fact these are under square engines, they need advanced timing to make good power due to high piston speeds, low TDC dewell time, and so if you can't advance timing, you're not making as much power as you potentially could

Ice88
31-01-2014, 10:27 AM
I was thinking about the flattening power curve and wondered if it had anything to do with spark. I know the high boost can blow out the spark at higher rpm's and am just wondering if high compression can do the same.

Maybe you could try different spark plug gaps and see if that helps.

I did a bit of reading regarding the blow out. It's actually from what I've read a rather rare phenomina, but a term used to describe what occurs when there is insufficient spark to bridge the gap and ignite the contents.

Its certainly possible given that the stock coils aren't what one considers the best.

of course it can
turbos add compression artificually

poor fuel quality, insufficient fueling, high combustion temperatures, exhaust flow reversions from excessive cam overlap are some of the things that promote detonation or preignition or both... this requires timing to be retarded in order for the engine to not detonate/preignite... due to the fact these are under square engines, they need advanced timing to make good power due to high piston speeds, low TDC dewell time, and so if you can't advance timing, you're not making as much power as you potentially could

Regarding my build. The only stuff really left stock currently are injectors and fuel pump so pressure drop at high rpm is certainly possible.

Regarding timing Rick was adding 12-24 degress of advance with no effects. Still havent worked out why, all my time has been spent working out why the car doesnt run very well at present.

Looks to be an issue to do with the amount of charge in the battery affecting the spark. Battery is on charge, so shall see saturday. I sincerely hope that it is and that a soluton is easily found.

Mad Mat
31-01-2014, 10:52 AM
im not happy witht he way the alternator is wired up so this weekend there will be alot or rewiring his car going on.. :) make it more reliable

Clean_Cookie
31-01-2014, 10:52 AM
Buy my monster battery hahaha.

TheMAN
31-01-2014, 11:13 AM
what spark plugs are you running?

Mad Mat
31-01-2014, 11:23 AM
copper. 7 heat range

TheMAN
31-01-2014, 12:08 PM
that doesn't tell me a lot
specifics?

Mad Mat
31-01-2014, 12:20 PM
that doesn't tell me a lot
specifics?

well they look like this
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ignition-system-spark-plug.gif

and go like this

http://audacious-leadership.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/spark.gif

Ice88
31-01-2014, 12:53 PM
NGK Copper BKR7E is what I'm running.

They didnt have ZFRs in the 7 range.

TheMAN
31-01-2014, 04:35 PM
and what gap are you running? both NGK and Denso has the plug in that heat range you want

Ice88
06-05-2014, 05:40 AM
Have my parents car till they get back from Europe (28th of June). I hope to in this time:

- Get the paint fixed up
- Replace right hand CV
- Rewire the adpatronic so its not in such a silly place.
- Wire up the idle control to the adaptronic
- Get closed loop idle control working
- Replace Fuel Pump
- Replacing Knock Sensor
- Hooking up knock sensor to Adaptronic
- Get wideband interfacing with the adaptronic

Potentially:
- Wiring A/C up to the adaptronic so that it will idle up when turned on etc.
- Swap to Toyota COPs

And Way down the list:
- Wiring up Power Steering so that idle up occurrs

May as well at this point swap to a VE based map as opposed to the current system in place which means starting tune from scratch again basically. Should be able to reuse some of it? VE Tuning is all new to me, used to having multiple reference maps.

Also have to pay off new wheels and body part. Hopefully get plenty of OT to pay for it all....

Also heres the dyno chart that didnt work last time:
http://i.imgur.com/LA4zqgEl.jpg (http://imgur.com/LA4zqgE)

ghetto3
06-05-2014, 05:47 AM
cool, it would be cool to see different pics of your afr maps and such.

HAIGHIE
06-05-2014, 04:20 PM
And fix handbrake. Make sure you ad that in :)

Ice88
28-05-2014, 05:50 PM
Bought some new rims for the car :D:
http://i.imgur.com/yZP6wttl.jpg

Unfortunatley suffered a casualty in that the passenger (drivers for you) is no longer with us, reversing into a pole has caused a crack to form in the headlight housing allowing rain in :(. Sad day, slightly expensive day as well. 240AUD for a new passengers side Sport20 HID (second hand):
http://i.imgur.com/eATOseal.jpg

Car has about -2 Degrees camber, even with the camber (granted its jacked up but still) the rims are proud of the gaurds:
http://i.imgur.com/DEAWpj0l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TMaO5Qkl.jpg

Also fitted my fog deletes and installed my original SP20 headlights:
http://i.imgur.com/w43xxzsl.jpg

HAIGHIE
29-05-2014, 06:31 AM
I like the wheels man they look neat with the colour of the car and fitment is on point

Ice88
29-05-2014, 11:53 AM
Thanks man.

Just need centre caps, but at 168-190 dollars delivered for a set of Weds centre, pretty sure ill try get some generic centre caps instead.

Ice88
21-08-2014, 10:32 AM
Suffered some bad luck recently.

First was the starter motor, replaced with a Denso 1.4kw 626 Starter, works much better (sort of more later). Stock Left vs Denso Right:
http://i.imgur.com/T99mbcTl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/15HzSw8l.jpg

Then a Indian gentlemen whom didn't speak a word of english t-boned me:
http://i.imgur.com/bdwZXvml.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m4DkVvDl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SUq0dPol.jpg

Car was working perfectly at this point, no cv whine, no starting issues. Perfect. Got it back from the smash repairs and the plugs were ****ed. (Fouled to the point it wouldn't start). The exhaust ports had turned to sludge from the amount of fuel that had been injected and not ignited. Cat was full of fuel, after a week of not running it still smelt of fuel.

After I got the car back I noticed that the cables that go into the ECU were starting to get bent from people stepping on them. As such with the help of a friend relocated the ECU and attempted to solder the knock sensor and crank into the ECU in an attempt to get the Air Con, idle air control valve (its winter here so it's taking a while for the engine to warm up sufficiently that it will idle itself) and tacho working.

In short the crank and cam didn't work, so they've since been removed again temporarily. And the USB port in the ECU was broken off at some point. I can't praise Adaptronic enough in that I express posted the ECU on wednesday and got it back the following Monday. In that time they replaced the ECU port and then sent it back express post. Thoroughly helpful. They even sent it expressed post back to me :)

At this point the engine stopped running. Leaving me and a few friends stranded in fasta pasta car park. Fun, not.

Since then I've had new tyres put on the rims, have had to raise it by 25mm rear and 15mm front. Mat also flared and rolled my rear guards a heap. Did a epic job too IMO :D

To get it all to fit having to run 4 degrees camber in the front and 3 in the rear. (Would like to dial this back to 3 per corner tbh). Hopefully that plus dialling in a lot more dampening will prevent scrubbage:
http://i.imgur.com/cTRKLm4l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HsFSLlDl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U6hJ9Drl.jpg

Front:
http://i.imgur.com/biciP4Rl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LkDu1pIl.jpg
(Above shots pre camber)

Im going to need to get some new rims though, running too much camber for my liking to get them to fit really. Ill use them till the tyres wears out while I work out what I want to do.

Problems/Things left to do to get it running:
- Engine doesn't turn over. Before it went on jack stands it worked flawlessly so unsure what the issue is here. Relay seems to be working fine and battery has plenty of charge (its been on charge).

- Work out wtf it wasn't running in the first place. Could be solder join related potentially. Anyone know if the stock ECU needs to be earthed? (i.e. does the stock brackets earth the case and thus the ecu?)

- Bolt everything up tight suspension wise and double check all suspension is the same height.

- Swap back to 2.5" exhaust or rotate the stock mid pipe 180 degrees as the shifter linkage is currently hitting it. (Swapped to stock exhaust as originally thought the cat in my 2.5" was shagged).

Parts list I have for the car to install:
- Autoexe/Mazdaspeed Rear Wing
- Ford Laser Ajustable Wipers
- New Front Left Guard (Premium Beige Coloured :P)
- Swap blacked out lens into new HID headlamp.
- Install Mazdaspeed Familia front sway bar
- Toyota Coil On Plug Conversion.

HAIGHIE
21-08-2014, 04:58 PM
That's a pain it doesn't run ATM :(

But you have some work to do boy :) how's the repairs on the RH side going ??

Mad Mat
21-08-2014, 06:09 PM
That's a pain it doesn't run ATM :(

But you have some work to do boy :) how's the repairs on the RH side going ??

Let's just say I wont let it get to a Marc level ;)

HAIGHIE
21-08-2014, 08:08 PM
Hahaha to currently THAT good ?? Lol

marcs_sp20
21-08-2014, 08:58 PM
Let's just say I wont let it get to a Marc level ;)

haha, yeah yeah, it'll happen, gotta stop buying camera gear first (after forking over $1100 this week alone for a new camera) :p

Ben
22-08-2014, 10:00 AM
Looks fat! Any shots of it on the ground??

Ice88
22-08-2014, 03:41 PM
That's a pain it doesn't run ATM :(

But you have some work to do boy :) how's the repairs on the RH side going ??

Completed.

Just need to get the car running now. Was hoping to do it tomorrow but weathers pretty ****e up here. Dad said it looked to be hanging around for the weekend shall see.

He's usually pretty good but he's currently making that call from 4.5hrs north of where I live so, hopefully its clear for me!

Looks fat! Any shots of it on the ground??

Hey Ben,

Cheers. No lol, hasn't made it off jack stands yet. Need to even up the camber on the rear as well before any serious driving.

Rupewrecht
22-08-2014, 04:07 PM
- New Front Left Guard (Premium Beige Coloured :P)


Winner winner chicken dinner ;)

Ice88
26-08-2014, 12:10 PM
Winner winner chicken dinner ;)

Thought you might appreciate the colour ;)


Problems/Things left to do to get it running:
- Engine doesn't turn over. Before it went on jack stands it worked flawlessly so unsure what the issue is here. Relay seems to be working fine and battery has plenty of charge (its been on charge).

- Work out wtf it wasn't running in the first place. Could be solder join related potentially. Anyone know if the stock ECU needs to be earthed? (i.e. does the stock brackets earth the case and thus the ecu?)

- Bolt everything up tight suspension wise and double check all suspension is the same height.

- Swap back to 2.5" exhaust or rotate the stock mid pipe 180 degrees as the shifter linkage is currently hitting it. (Swapped to stock exhaust as originally thought the cat in my 2.5" was shagged).

Update:
- Engine now turns over.
- Broken wiring for trigger two meant that only cylinders 1 and 4 were firing.

Build has suffered scope creep. Moving to a complete standalone installation, harness has been removed from the car. Will be checking all the solder joins tonight for broken wiring.

Then will proceed to wire everything up so that I can get idle control working, air con and power steering idle up and lastly get COPs going in direct fire.

TheMAN
26-08-2014, 04:52 PM
how did it get broken?

Ice88
27-08-2014, 11:04 AM
Unsure. Broke at the solder join, most likely during relocation.

TheMAN
28-08-2014, 08:21 AM
what relocation?

Mad Mat
28-08-2014, 12:50 PM
what relocation?

he wanted to relocate the stock ecu and adaptronic ecu from the foot well (the original ecu was in the original location but the adaptronic was screwed to the outside metal bracket frame/foot rest) to under neath the sterio. now the reason why we had to move both is because there wasnt enough cable to just move the adaptronic ecu..