BA hatch - Econo'tina.

[D.O.G.]

This in my 2/98 BA Astina hatchback, bought in late 2011.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y459/22-over-7/AstinaMay12_zps6bd902db.jpg

It was bought for my daughter, who then changed her mind, so it became my daily driver. :rolleyes:

I've treated reducing my fuel consumption as a hobby/game for some time now, using whatever car I had at the time, so I was curious what I could squeeze out of a 1.8 litre engine with a 5 speed.
It was reasonably economical on fuel from the start, about 6.9 l/100km, but I wanted more (or is that less?). :confused:

The first thing I sorted out was, what fuel does the car respond to best?
My car likes straight ULP, 91 RON, no ethanol.
95 RON works nearly as well, but costs more.
E10 is good for a 5% drop in fuel economy, with only a 3.5% saving in cost over ULP.

The most effective changes I've made, however, have been driving style changes. That's what has really brought my average down.
My daily commute is 52km each way, which takes about 40 minutes (including traffic lights, etc.), for an average speed of 78 kph. I mention this to show that driving with fuel economy in mind doesn't necessarily mean "driving like a grandma".

To help in this, over 2012, I:
1. Added a vacuum gauge (poor man's economy gauge).
2. Removed the spoiler and the mud flap thingies front and rear to slightly reduce aero drag. As a bonus, I think it looks good that way and I can see out the back window easier.
3. Ran the tyres pumped up harder than the tyre placard recommends to reduce rolling resistance.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y459/22-over-7/Baaminusspoilerampstuff_zps14ea13e0.jpg

By mid October 2012, fuel consumption was down to around 5.8 l/100km. :)

In late October, I changed from the 195/50R15's that the car came with (odometer was right, speedo was fast when compared to my GPS), to second hand 195/60R15's (odometer is now 5.7% slow, speedo is about 1% slow).
This was as a trial to see if dropping engine revs would help. Something helped (by about 5%), but it may have been the change of tyre model (Kumho KU25 to Pirelli P6) as much as the change in tyre circumference.

By the end of 2012, I'm averaging just under 5.5 l/100km … and still hungry.

[project.r.racing]

thats some good figures. i thought i was doing well at 7.2-7.5L/100km.

i wouldn't mind 800km per tank like you are getting.

[Clean_Cookie]

Wow. I get 8.5-9.5 depending. My car sees foot to floor to redline multiple times per tank. What do you get when the gauge is half full?

[ross]

Um 10 l/100k highway driving with the KLDK-R. Is that a lot?

[D.O.G.]

i wouldn't mind 800km per tank like you are getting.

My best tank so far is 960km, but I was getting pretty nervous by that stage.

What do you get when the gauge is half full?

Half tank estimates are always a bit unreliable, I have set myself goals though, that have slowly crept upwards. I started aiming for 350km at the half mark, it's up to 500km now.

Um 10 l/100k highway driving with the KLDK-R. Is that a lot?

How long is a piece of string? Answer - it all depends.
You have to take into consideration How you drive, Where you drive and When you drive, not just What you drive.
The figure for your V6 was 8.5 l/100km highway (optimistic) but that only addresses What and Where, not How and When.


I'm still trying to squeeze more out of my car.
My present goal is to get 5.0 l/100km (or less :D) for three consecutive tanks ... it may take a while.:rolleyes:
I'm trying a new trick at the moment, I'll let you know how it's working out after a couple more tanks ( but it looks promising so far :) )

Pete.

[Clean_Cookie]

500kms at half! Bloody hell. How much will you sell you gauge cluster for haha. Or your right foot would be good too. I'll try again. Any exhaust/intake modification?

[D.O.G.]

Any exhaust/intake modification?

None done by me, but I bought it from a car yard and have no history from the previous owner.

It's got standard manifolds, new(ish) rear muffler (sounds OK), haven't checked timing.
It has a pod filter in place of the original air box, so it's sucking hot air from the engine bay. In theory that could be helping (by reducing pumping losses), in practice, I don't know by how much, if at all.

This is something on my "to do" list, compare this pod filter and the original set-up.
I read (on here? can't find it now) that the original set-up gives better torque at low revs than a pod. Can anyone comment if that's correct?

As for the 500km at halfway, that's my goal, I don't always reach it.
I did last night on the way home from work though. :)

[ross]

Just looked up the KLDE specs and it is about 10l/100 so the KLDK-R is not using extra fuel at all which is amazing considering the way I drive

[tomy]

could you please elaborate on how this is being done?
im doing 400km on LPG (43 l. tank) - 10.5 l./100 km
and about 500km on patrol which goes for around 9.5l./100km

[D.O.G.]

could you please elaborate on how this is being done?


OK, this may not be answering your question too well, but it's probably the only honest way.

This list, or others like it, are a good starting point.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hypermiling-driving-tips-ecodriving.php

I'm lucky, I do very little urban driving and almost never drive in peak traffic hours.
That's not by choice, it's determined by where I live and what hours I work.
Specifics of what works for me may be useless for you, because you have to contend with different roads and traffic conditions.
That's why I've directed you to a general list. You need to decide what points on that list pertain to your conditions.

Have a look at my fuel consumption chart on Fuelly. I've gradually reduced fuel consumption over the 15 months that I've owned this car. That's by working out what works (or not) for my conditions.

As for mechanical mods, start with a car in good mechanical condition and keep your tyres pumped up.

I've started this thread because I'm at a point now where I want to try more advanced mechanical mods and that's something that may be useful for other Astina drivers.

[Rhys]

I have to say that this is a very cool thing to do. I might have to get into it and see how much I can reduce my consumption!

[project.r.racing]

there are some very unsafe driving practices suggested in that ecomodder site. hybrid engines are designed to shut off in certain instantances, full petrol engines are not, so a driver shouldn't be doing so with a key while the vehicle still has momentum.

[D.O.G.]

there are some very unsafe driving practices suggested in that ecomodder site. hybrid engines are designed to shut off in certain instantances, full petrol engines are not, so a driver shouldn't be doing so with a key while the vehicle still has momentum.

That's another reason to sort out what suits you in lists like this.
What one person is comfortable with, may horrify another person.

Take the example of drafting semi trailers. It can save you fuel, that's been proven, but having once been hit by the debris from a truck tyre blow-out (many years ago), I won't do it.

In regards to shutting off the engine while on the move, I've found using the key is potentially dangerous for a number of reasons ... which is why I'm trialing an injector kill switch at the moment.

[D.O.G.]

G'day Astina folk.

I'm sorry, but I've had a change of heart about posting details of my driving techniques and modifications here.

Project.r.racing has reminded me that there are a number of relatively new drivers reading this site (as judged by the number of P plates in photos) and I believe it would be irresponsible of me to encourage practices that may be outside their capabilities.

I know that sound pretentious, but my intention isn't to put anyone down.
I'm 55 years old, I've been behind the wheel (and handlebars) for many moons. That doesn't make me a talented driver, it does makes me a very experienced one over a fairly limited range however.
I've lived in the Blue Mountains and worked in western Sydney for nearly thirty years, so I know every curve and grade of the highway, be it day or night, rain, fog or smoke.

Having that experience, I still started small, practicing techniques that were new to me where I wouldn't inconvenience (or harm) other drivers and gradually reduced my fuel consumption.
This Astina lends itself to pushing consumption figures far past those of my previous cars, so I've expanded some techniques and abandoned others, but I've done so using baby steps.

What I'm trying to say is, "don't try this at home", it's not as easy as it sounds.

I'll still post results here, but I'd recommend lots of reading on a site like http://ecomodder.com/ if you're keen to try it yourself.

Pete.

[D.O.G.]

A quick update on my latest numbers.

This is my best ever tank. :D:D
I filled up last night on my way home, using 43.72 litres to cover 842 km, for a tank average of 5.19 l/100km.

The new injector kill switch is working out well. ;)
My previous best was 5.3

[parkies]

So we're all the poorer yet again having pandered to the lowest common denominator in society.

[D.O.G.]

So we're all the poorer yet again having pandered to the lowest common denominator in society.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not really correct.
I've chosen to give my posts relevant context, by posting on a site that's primarily centered around reducing fuel consumption. Where you'll get varied opinions from those who've been there and done that.

Take my fuel injector kill switch as an example.
I've adapted it from someone else's idea, to suit me (and I've already changed it once). If you want to copy mine, that's fine, but it's better for you to look at the variations in form and function and then decide what suits you.

Then there's the question of where and when to use it.
Usage options vary from conservative to radical and all points between, just as peoples opinions vary on what is safe or practical for their circumstances. I'm still working out just how far I'm comfortable pushing the usage of this.


I'm still posting stuff on ecomodder, so if you're genuinely interested I'd be very pleased to discuss details there.

[project.r.racing]

I dont remember ragging on the ecomodder site. I just made a observation about one of the suggestions and shared a personal view about it.

[Clean_Cookie]

I assume you're not using a/c, how much did you increase without the use of it? Curious because my findings seem to suggest a large amount.

[project.r.racing]

A/C uses little extra fuel if you are in a rural area. I mainly do 80-100kph cos of my location. For me A/C doesn't effect fuel consumption much. As the RPMs are high and the engine isn't straining. I think Pete is in a similar situation to me.

Be a different story if you did alot more urban driving. Those lower rpms and A/C will increase the consumption due to the extra straining.

I think I lose about 20-30km per tank using the A/C all the time. I dont really moniter it, most of the time 42L goes in, and I get 600 +/- 30 per tank. I'm happy with the figures I get, and alarm bells will only ring when for some reason I don't get near 600km, which I'm still waiting for the first time for that to happen.

[D.O.G.]

I dont remember ragging on the ecomodder site. I just made a observation about one of the suggestions and shared a personal view about it.

Please understand, I only meant that your comment spurred a tangential train of thought in my head.
My son and youngest daughter are both learner drivers ATM, with my daughter booked for her driving test in two weeks time.
I haven't taught them anything except standard driving techniques and wouldn't want them to attempt any of my unorthodox techniques without a few years driving under their belts first, because some of these are potentially dangerous in that they add extra complexity in an emergency situation.

My thought was, that I should show the same concern for the younger ones on this site as I would my own children.

Maybe I've over reacted a bit ... sorry, it's a dad thing.


As for the A/C question, I only rarely use the A/C.
It's not normally that hot in the mountains and on the motorway, with the controls set for recirculation, the A/C compressor seems to be off more than it's on. I have been known to turn it off while climbing long hills though.

I agree that urban fuel consumption is going to be much harder hit, stop start traffic with A/C is tough on the engine and electrical system.
One possible way around that, is an A/C controller like this one from Jaycar
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5437&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11
There's a favourable review of it on Autospeed from a few years ago.

[Rupewrecht]

Quite an interesting thread :) I'm impressed you've got it into the 5s!

I remember being happy if i got 12L/100km.. LOL

I would think a bit of lowering and smoothing out the underside of the car would help - the back of the Astina isn't the smoothest thing in the world. The front at least has plenty of plastic undertrays to help in that regard.

[D.O.G.]

Quite an interesting thread :) I'm impressed you've got it into the 5s!

I remember being happy if i got 12L/100km.. LOL

I would think a bit of lowering and smoothing out the underside of the car would help - the back of the Astina isn't the smoothest thing in the world. The front at least has plenty of plastic undertrays to help in that regard.

Cleaning up the aerodynamics will have to be done if I want to progress much past this point.
Yes, I could drive slower and get similar results, but I've already dropped as much speed as I want to on my commute.

I don't have any hard data on the BA hatch aerodynamics. I guess I should do some tuft testing first, but I can make some guesses as a starting point.

The nose isn't too bad, it could use fog light covers, ducting between a reduced grill opening and the radiator and a small front lip to the same height as the bottom of the radiator.

Under the car could use a tray from the lip, all the way back. I'd like to try a diffuser at the back, but the rear muffler sits too low to get the required angles, I think.

The sides are marred by the huge wheel wells. Lowering would help, but I may look at closing the gap between arch and tyre as well. Wheel offset is important as well as the wheel style, I may try moons on the wheels I have. Full wheel covers (spats) at the rear work great, but I don't know if I could make them look OK.

Which leaves the rear, the most important area for reducing aero drag.
While I love the look of the rear, I suspect it's not very good for minimizing the wake. This is where tuft testing will be invaluable.
A full boat tail would work ... but they're just so ugly.


While track aero has a slightly different focus, I'd love to get opinions from anyone in the racing fraternity.

[project.r.racing]

If you lower it, with the front slightly more than the rear, you'll get much better results. The amount of air under these things when stock height makes it like a parachute.

Also light wheels will help. Spoke design is negligible.

[Cosmo Dude]

Type R skirts may help with the rear wheels and a ZXi splitter on the front.
All Mazda bits that you can't buy through Mazda Aust :(

Just my 2c with A/C. Turning it off only works if you keep the windows up. The old piston style pumps found from the mid 80's back were real horsepower vampires but the compresser in the Astina is much more efficient. If you have a BG (or a BA with working climate control) then leave it on eco unless it gets really hot.

[D.O.G.]

If you lower it, with the front slightly more than the rear, you'll get much better results. The amount of air under these things when stock height makes it like a parachute.

Also light wheels will help. Spoke design is negligible.

How much do you have the front lower than the rear? I've wondered how that would work out in regards to steering/suspension geometry.

As I understand it, light wheels will help in urban traffic (or on the track) but not so much at steady highway speeds.

Your remark on spoke design surprised me, so I looked up the documents where I'd read about it some time back. It seems to be one of those differences of focus that I mentioned.
Partial (annular) blanking of the wheel face does reduce the coefficient of drag (good), but it also increases the coefficient of lift (bad). I can understand that anything increasing lift on the track is a no-no, but for "normal" road use it's probably not that critical?

[parkies]

My first tank since owning the astina I've only got 11l/100. :(
I did just discover that the timing was at around 6-7degrees instead of 10... So I'm hoping that improves things.
Also just did the GB and engine oil. Bit hard to know what to hit next if it doesn't improve, having no idea of the service history and only wanting to spend the least amount necessary to keep the thing maintained, but efficient.

[TheMAN]

you want to improve fuel efficiency? run the lightest motor oil possible... there are MX-5 guys running 5W20 or 0W20 synthetic in the BP here in the US, in the hot southern part of the country.... unpredictable oil consumption at times but no appreciable motor wear or damage from analyses reports... to be on the safe side, a 0W30 synthetic will work wonderfully with this engine

use synthetic gear oil
run higher tyre pressures, use harder rubber compounds
use lighter wheels with less open faces as said
fit ground effects and lower the car to reduce coefficient of lift
fit air diffusers under the car to reduce coefficient of lift, air turbulence, and drag

remove the passenger side mirror if that is allowed... or both if allowed
remove boot lid spoiler (you did that)
remove or put away the aerial

if you decide not to run aircon, you must keep the windows up
having the windows down negates the advantages

[D.O.G.]

you want to improve fuel efficiency? run the lightest motor oil possible... there are MX-5 guys running 5W20 or 0W20 synthetic in the BP here in the US, in the hot southern part of the country.... unpredictable oil consumption at times but no appreciable motor wear or damage from analyses reports... to be on the safe side, a 0W30 synthetic will work wonderfully with this engine


I'm sure you're correct.
I'm running a bit heavier synthetic engine oil at present, but with cooler weather approaching, I'll try the lighter stuff at the next oil change.

What's a good weight of synthetic gearbox oil? I'm still running mineral oil at present.
Should I stick with 75W-90 as the book recommends?

[Mad Mat]

I'm sure you're correct.
I'm running a bit heavier synthetic engine oil at present, but with cooler weather approaching, I'll try the lighter stuff at the next oil change.

What's a good weight of synthetic gearbox oil? I'm still running mineral oil at present.
Should I stick with 75W-90 as the book recommends?

Fark that id go penright 10w-50... Thats what i run

[Clean_Cookie]

75-90 is what I'm running.

[D.O.G.]

It has a pod filter in place of the original air box, so it's sucking hot air from the engine bay. In theory that could be helping (by reducing pumping losses), in practice, I don't know by how much, if at all.

This is something on my "to do" list, compare this pod filter and the original set-up.
I read (on here? can't find it now) that the original set-up gives better torque at low revs than a pod. Can anyone comment if that's correct?


I removed the Pod and fitted an original air filter assembly for this tank. I can’t give you hard figures, but this is my “feeling” on the change.

The standard assembly is much quieter of course, take that as a plus or minus to suit your mood.

I believe I can feel a positive difference in torque at low rpm. I can take off from a dead stop while facing up hill easier than before and crawling past road works at 40kph in top gear seems easier.
If most of your driving is stop start traffic, this could be a help. Unfortunately, it’s not normally a big part of my commute.

OK, it’s all about the fuel economy for me, so how’d it do?

Because I don’t have OBD2, I can’t use a fancy gauge to track real-time fuel economy. That means I really have to try it over a few more tanks before being sure, it’s too close to call at present.
This tank averaged out to 5.27 l/100km (863km for 45.51l of fuel).
That’s good, but not so far from my average that it's cut and dried.


One down side of getting better fuel economy is that it's taking longer to get through a full tank (and it's made worse by having my Datsun back on the road now :D).
I'll update this thread again as circumstances dictate.

Pete.

[spenaroo]

Fark that id go penright 10w-50... Thats what i run

two different standards for transmision and engine oil,
a 75w90 transmission fluid is roughly around a 10w50 engine oil in viscosity.

[Assiduous]

Impressive figures pete. The best fuel economy i've returned on my stock '96 1.8 BA is 6.5 L/100km (canberra to gosford). Have you tried running additional ignition advance? You said you run high tyre pressures, what exactly are you calling high? I'm also interested in your injector kill switch - is it automatic or must you manually operate it? I've heard newer cars completely cut injector activity when lifting off the throttle, but suspected this wasn't the case with the Astina.

[project.r.racing]

Cannot say for Astinas before May 96, but post May 96 Astinas do drop duty cycle on injectors on decelleration and zero position on the throttle body.

[D.O.G.]

Impressive figures pete. The best fuel economy i've returned on my stock '96 1.8 BA is 6.5 L/100km (canberra to gosford). Have you tried running additional ignition advance? You said you run high tyre pressures, what exactly are you calling high? I'm also interested in your injector kill switch - is it automatic or must you manually operate it? I've heard newer cars completely cut injector activity when lifting off the throttle, but suspected this wasn't the case with the Astina.

Assiduous, I'm sorry for not replying to your questions before this, I don't know how I missed seeing them.

No, I haven't played with the timing on the Astina, although I have on other cars I've owned.
I'm a bit reluctant to fiddle with it when it's going so well.

When I say higher tyre pressure, I mean somewhere between the 32/30psi on the door sticker and the 44psi max moulded on the tyre wall.
While higher tyre pressures help rolling resistance, it degrades ride comfort, so I usually split the difference.

The injector kill switch is totally manual. It's mounted on the gear stick so I can shift into neutral and kill the engine at the same time.

Pete.

[D.O.G.]

Hi All
It's way past time to update this thread.:o

To start, a couple of comments in relation to past posts.

Switching from a pod filter to the standard air box didn't give me any gain if fuel economy.
I've left the standard air box installed so I can use standard filter elements that “maybe” filter out rubbish better, although I've removed the tubing from the bottom, so it's sucking warm air again.

Clean_Cookie asked about any exhaust mods, I've recently gotten under both mine and another BA and yes, the exhaust on mine is larger than standard and stamped PowerFlow.
Apart from sounding good, I don't know that bigger is any better considering I rarely go over 3500 rpm anyway.

There's more random, unconnected stuff to follow that I'll spread over a couple of posts.

Stay safe over the holiday period.;)

Pete.

[D.O.G.]

So what's happened in the last year and a bit?

I had a fibreglass front lip for most of the year, but removed it after whacking it on steep driveways and while parking too many times.
It looked good, but I didn't notice any effect on economy, anything I gained from less air under the car was probably countered by the extra down force.
That's it on my Fuelly photo. I may make a plain flat rubber one as I get spare time.

Replacing worn out tyres gave a noticeable drop in fuel economy. I went from Pirelli P5 to Zetum Solus of the same size (195/60 R15).
Apparently this is quite normal, rolling resistance decreases with tread depth, apart from any differences in tread pattern and compound of the replacement tyres.

Pete.

[D.O.G.]

I was rear-ended while stopped at traffic lights by an uninsured idiot a few months back. :mad:
Rather than go through my insurance, I bought a complete, registered BA for parts, for less than the excess on my policy.

It's the same series and colour as mine, so I've swapped the needed parts over, am installing it's fancy stereo in my daughter's car and have most of the car as spare parts if required.
It's only serious faults are faded paint on the roof, a few odd electrical gremlins and a very tired engine, although I drove it home 150km without issue.

I may even fit the tow bar from it to my car. I don't expect to use it often, but it'll save me using my wife's wagon to pull the trailer with light loads. :)

[Assiduous]

Returned my best figure recently on a Canberra to Sydney return trip - 6.27 L/100km. The key change was a new set of tyres. I was previously running Michelin Energy XM1. Those have been replaced with a Bridgestone Ecopia EP100 (buy 3 get 4th free). The diameter on the Bridgestones must be larger as the speedo is now very accurate. This probably also accounts for my improved economy. The car remains bone stock.