Legality of 5stud to 4stud conversion

[Alemenara]

^ Just as the title suggests I'm looking at possibly buying a V6 Astina however i'm put off only by the fact it runs 5 stud hubs as my wheels are 4 stud and i'd prefer not to buy another set of wheels for it right off the bat. So i was curious as to if it was legal/safe to put the hubs from my I4 onto a V6, i'd have to get my rotors drilled for 4 stud holes as i asume the v6 uses a different brake setup?

Any clarification on this would be great. Thanks!

[Noble323]

Im sure their have been a few people here that have done it, but with 4 stud to 5 stud, so i guess you can reverse them to 5 stud to 4 stud, but by memory you have to change the hub assembly as well, so you dont need to drill anything, basically like a swap over.

Personally i'd keep the 5 stud as it has the bigger brake set-up, and sell the wheels you have that are 4 stud and slowly save up for 5 stud, there is alot of cheap wheels on the ebay, gumtree.

[Rhys]

As above. 5 stud rims are 100x easier to find and are generally cheaper/cooler than the 4stud options.

Source: I have 4stud =(

[project.r.racing]

dont buy a V6 BA, problem solved.

[ghetto3]

I swapped from 4 to5 stud as a performance upgrade (thanks clean cookie). The v6 uses a larger rotor calliper combo on the front.
There is some interchangability of the hubs and such but i'd suggest the money spent on getting rotors drilled etc be sent rupes way (free plug) for a set of 5 studders instead.
If im getting you correctly... I dont think it'd be legal or wise to go to a smaller rotor or calliper. If your'e in there chuck a set of new pads in. As suggested up there 5 studs open up way more possibilities.


Edit:it seems i did misunderstand. Your'e suggesting whacking your hubs alone into the larger rotor calliper setup? It will work but i'd recommend against it. That big lump of v6 would probably need an extra stud per wheel to deal with the extra torque/weight etc. I cant see it being legal.

[Alemenara]

To Clarify what im asking is that i will be using what cash i have available to me to buy the car and there won't be money left to buy another set of wheels.

I'm simply asking is it legal to take off the 5 stud hubs, take off the front rotors and have them re-drilled so i can also fit them on a 4 stud hub, put the 5 stud caliper on the redrilled rotor and fit the car up with my 4 stud wheels and hubs. Getting the rotors re-drilled will cost me next to nothing as i have to go down to west sydney in a few weeks and theres an RDA joint down that way, can have the rotors re-drilled real quick whilst i wait.

It will save me having to find $1200+ for tyres and wheels at the same time of purchase. It would only be used as a temporary solution. I haven't bought the car yet, so i'd like to know before i commit and put down a deposit.

This BA is the cleanest BA i've ever laid my eyes on, comes with sunroof and full options and not only that it has 64,000 genuine KMs (little old lady owner from new), i'm going to see it later this afternoon and i'd like to know before i go.

[SLY 323]

Buy a 4cyl. Time and time again for me proven to be quicker, more reliable. More fuel effecient.

[HAIGHIE]

why do you have to put wheels on it?

can't you just run with stockies for the time being seems like a lot of effort to just be able to put wheels on it IMO. or does it not come with wheels?

[Clean_Cookie]

I have a set of factory v6 alloys with almost brand new tyres

[Alemenara]

why do you have to put wheels on it?

can't you just run with stockies for the time being seems like a lot of effort to just be able to put wheels on it IMO. or does it not come with wheels?

I have a set of factory v6 alloys with almost brand new tyres

It comes with stock wheels, the tyres seem to be alright but i won't know till i see it in person. I'd just rather run my 17s on it as soon as i can if its legal to do so, if not i'll wait. I just want a straight answer if its legal or its not legal.

[BG1.8sp]

It comes with stock wheels, the tyres seem to be alright but i won't know till i see it in person. I'd just rather run my 17s on it as soon as i can if its legal to do so, if not i'll wait. I just want a straight answer if its legal or its not legal.

Re drilling brake rotors... then asking about legality should not be put in the same sentence.
lol

No its not legal lol.

Also, (at least here in NSW) down grading to the 4 stud when the car was designed for 5 stud would definitely be illegal (unless engineered... in which case... the engineer wouldn't pass it anyway).

4stud to 5 stud is legal. 5 stud to 4 stud is illegal.

[Alemenara]

Cheers for that.

[ghetto3]

What they said! if it is bang tidy and low k get it, be happy its yours and wheels etc can be in the future. Jump at it if you've the cash.

[BG1.8sp]

No worries,
Basically for any Modification...

If it is deemed to be a downgrade = Not legal
If it compromises structural integrity in anyway = not legal
If it is a upgrade was not a factory option/ variant on your chasis = illegal (unless proven otherwise... i.e. Engineered)

[HAIGHIE]

so mines legal ?? YAY

[Hammo]

maybe take a look at some 4 to 5 stud spacers?

http://www.gktech.com/products/#38

[DVS]

illegal mod and is pretty dumb....

[Rupewrecht]

Use the 4 stud hubs, get some blank V6 rotors drilled to 4 stud. Done.

[Alemenara]

Use the 4 stud hubs, get some blank V6 rotors drilled to 4 stud. Done.

Is that legal?

[Clean_Cookie]

Keeping same brake size...

[Alemenara]

Keeping same brake size...

Well thats what i was thinking, i'm merely talking about using the same brake setup, just changing the number of hub studs.. Everyone's saying it would be illegal but rupe seems to think it may be legal?

[Clean_Cookie]

The centers are removable. This will cost 250 ish for the fronts. Then you need a rotor to suit, problem is when mat looked he couldn't get the v6 blanks. So its a dead end. You don't need more cars. You need to save money and fix one...

[Cosmo Dude]

Didn't the V6 come with RWC? So wheels and tyres are OK for now.
Good chance the V6 has ABS. If it does then removing it will make it illegal, and you pretty stupid.

[Alemenara]

The centers are removable. This will cost 250 ish for the fronts. Then you need a rotor to suit, problem is when mat looked he couldn't get the v6 blanks. So its a dead end. You don't need more cars. You need to save money and fix one...

Having the red one fixxed next weekend. Doing it with a friend at his workshop! Didn't know they didnt make v6 blanks.

Didn't the V6 come with RWC? So wheels and tyres are OK for now.
Good chance the V6 has ABS. If it does then removing it will make it illegal, and you pretty stupid.

Yes the V6 came with a roadworthy and yes the wheels and tyres are fine now. The idea of the thread was merely to ask if it was legal/possible/safe. I know now that it isn't, i haven't thought about doing something like this before so i thought i'd do the smart thing and ask.

Also why even bother with a comment like that? Keep your negativity to yourself.

[ghetto3]

Have you had a look at the car? what she asking for it if you dont mind!?

we'd all design a pretty good camel eh!

Not on topic and purely opinion if your after a cruiser get v6 whack on extractors and rims
After power... go bpt
after track car... Itbs bore/compression etc
you gotta love the flow of forums lol sometimes you never get a straight answer- but we all mean well, i think?

Good luck on whatever you decide dude
Sounds like a solid canvas to work with, one owner and all!! Keep us updated.

[Alemenara]

Have you had a look at the car? what she asking for it if you dont mind!?

we'd all design a pretty good camel eh!

Not on topic and purely opinion if your after a cruiser get v6 whack on extractors and rims
After power... go bpt
after track car... Itbs bore/compression etc
you gotta love the flow of forums lol sometimes you never get a straight answer- but we all mean well, i think?

Good luck on whatever you decide dude
Sounds like a solid canvas to work with, one owner and all!! Keep us updated.

Refer to my build thread.

[BG1.8sp]

Using blanks and drilling to specs is fine. (Still a bit of a shady area with "being legal" tho)
But reducing the number of lugs on the hubs from what the car was designed for is still considered illegal.

If the V6 was designed with 5 studs then downgrading to the 4 studs is still "illegal"

You would have to get seriously unlucky to get pinned for it... But yeah, legal... No

Can you do it? Yes... Easily.

[JDM323]

on the bj the hub center is smaller diameter on the 4 stud than the 5 stud so I would suggest that the same may apply here also

[TheMAN]

I'm pretty sure it does

[BG1.8sp]

on the bj the hub center is smaller diameter on the 4 stud than the 5 stud so I would suggest that the same may apply here also

Nope, it's the same.

[BG1.8sp]

On the BJ... All you need for a 4-5 stud swap is a wheel bearing, and the 5 stud flange. Same knuckle can still be used, same CV shaft. Rear obviously requires the assembly.

Some things that you need to consider (I'm not familiar with BG and BA really) is the CV shaft spline count.... 4 stud vehicles may run a different spline count to the V6. If you are swapping while hubs.... Lateral link lengths may be different between the i4 and v6

Also... If the V6 has abs, then you want to make sure the rear assemblies used have the abs ring when going to 4 stud.

But that's if you do lol, it's still illegal :)

[Aaron]

V6 is same splines as I4, ABS rings are on the hubs at rear, but driveshafts at front, but using KJ Lynx hubs (4 stud)resolves ABS issue for rears. You could possibly use a 2001 MX5 (270mm) front rotor instead of drilling the v6 blanks, but I think there's some other crap to deal with then. Would have to check hat-heights of the rotors.

At rear you need hub and rotor only as calipers are the same.

But because you've dropped Stud count it requires engineering, and unless you are really convincing your engineer will just laugh in your face...

[Alemenara]

It's probably too much trouble to go to. I'll see if i can't find a decent set of rims to swap mine for or sell them for a decent price. I literally fitted new tyres to them 2 days before the clutch went in my car. I drove from the tyre place home, drove down to clean cookies place, home again and once to the shops since the tyres were put on so literally 320km or so, seems a shame but i'd like a nice set of rims on my new car and my wheels only have 4x100 and 4x114.3 stud patterns and considering i have an i4 in the driveway to pull hubs off i thought if it were legal i'd do it, but it seems like alot of stuffing around for something that is A) illegal B) will need engineering & a mod plate C) temporary.

I'll just paint the stock rims till i figure out what rims i want and get them.

[TheMAN]

Nope, it's the same.

not on the BJ it's not
the wheel centre bores of all 4 stud BG, CBA, BHA, and BJ wheels are 54.1mm.... same goes for NA and NB MX-5s, the 121, Metro, Mazda2, MX-3 1.6l, Lasers, etc.

the 5 stud wheels centre bores on the BJ are 67.1mm, which is the same as the 626... I'm pretty sure it's also the case on the FD RX-7, RX-8, Mazda3/5/6, CX-7, CX-9, NC MX-5, etc.... I don't know if this is the case on the BA V6, we never have these cars here so I don't have experience on those cars

the wheel centre bores reflect on the wheel hubs on the car, they will have the corresponding 54 and 67mm sizes so that the wheels will properly fit and stay on... the spindle sizes where the wheel hubs goes into the bearings remain the same, but as you said, splines maybe different.... this is not the case for the BJ as proven by many 4 stud 2.0l BJs sold here which uses the same exact driveshafts as the 5 stud 2.0l BJs.... phil's G series gearbox swap further exemplifies this truth

[project.r.racing]

5stud v6 ba centre hole is 67.1 also.

outer splines on alxes are 26 for all 323s 90-03

[Aaron]

I am having a bit of a LOL that here's a dude trying to ditch stock v6 16" wheels while I'm actively trying to get a set.

[Alemenara]

I am having a bit of a LOL that here's a dude trying to ditch stock v6 16" wheels while I'm actively trying to get a set.

Theres a black set on gumtree for real cheap, you can buy mine in a few weeks when i find a set of rims i like or you can hit up clean cookie for a set.

[Cosmo Dude]

I am having a bit of a LOL that here's a dude trying to ditch stock v6 16" wheels while I'm actively trying to get a set.

You can have mine for the price of swapping the tyres to other rims and transport. I'll even throw in a spare ;)

[SLY 323]

I am having a bit of a LOL that here's a dude trying to ditch stock v6 16" wheels while I'm actively trying to get a set.

I have 2 sets lying around.

[rodhog]

I am having a bit of a LOL that here's a dude trying to ditch stock v6 16" wheels while I'm actively trying to get a set.

if your interested I could have set for you. Pm me to let me know.


back on topic. Of what seems shoudl of just been.

Don't consider it - don't do it. It's backward Idea.

Mazda in the first place would of never for Production costs and reasons NEVER - EVER added a 5 stud hub to the V6 in the first place if it was not needed.

Think about it- the BA is based on the earlier Eunos Ca chassis 500 - 5 stud.
When they have made the 4 cylinder version - they have gone lets CUT COSTS. Where can we or where don't we need and extra bolt or two or air bag or thicker shock strut etc.

Having done a lot of this type or Money saving engineering. both ways. sometimes you add 2mm to something like rear diameter disc rotors to save $1000 every 20 cars or products you make.

This talk for a set of wheels costing what $1000 to you - made at cost of $200 worth what on ebay $200. Come on so just for the looks you want to risk, putting 4 studs under increased load with a high chance of failure. At least when you hit that pot -hole when your cornering hard - you look good as you spear off into a wall or on -coming traffic.

[Aaron]

Just quickly, v6 rim search is over :)
Had a chat with engineer, he isn't worried about me running the SP20 wheels with their slightly 'tucked' offset compared to the v6 wheels. Less than 12mm change in track so it's within the rules and he's happy with that.