Badger's Lantis Type R budget racer.

[Badger]

Hi all,

Thought I'd put this up here as it could be of interest to a few of you.

Over here in NZ we have a race series called the 2kCup about to start up. General rules are that you have to buy a car for NZ$2000 or less and race it with no major modifications. Rules state that the car must be older than 2000 with an engine size of 2000cc or smaller. No forced induction is allowed.

Cars aren't allowed to be modified beyond the following:

- Tyres are free, although must retain original tyre sizes and have treadwear rating above 200 (so no specialist track tyres), original wheel sizes must be retained.
- Springs are free.
- Brake pads are free. Discs/callipers must remain stock
- Cars must run a fire extinguisher in accordance with MSNZ rules.
- Cars must run full interior although a race seat and harnesses are permitted for safety (although not compulsory) as is a roll cage.
- Airbags may be removed, weight cannot be stripped out beyond removing non-functional items or removing optional extras (like spoilers, fog lights etc) provided the same model car was available without them.
- Worn parts can be refreshed with OEM parts.

There's little point in spending much on the car as the organisers can exercise the right to buy the car off you, outright for $2500.

With the car of choice being the SW20 MR2 amongst most of the more serious guys and the odd Honda DC2 Integra (which were suspiciously cheap!) my mate Richy and I thought we'd think outside the box and get a Lantis R as we wanted a sweet V6 howl, and if we couldn't be the quickest car out there we'd be the best sounding! We weren't the only ones as a bloke called Simon (Rolly on here) is doing the same.

We were a bit late getting off the mark with our purchase and have missed some of the test rounds but aiming to be on the grid at the end of September.

A month or so back, we bought this,a car we affectionately christened "the cockroach":

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s720x720/968874_10200362299362599_1065708166_n.jpg

It's a 1995 Lantis Type R, with 25X,XXX km on the clock. It's a trade-in special and cost us the princely sum of $1000. It's in good(ish) mechanical nick and okay apart from some average paintwork, a cracked windscreen which prevented it from attaining a WOF. The car came with remnants of stockings stretched over its indicators and rear lights and evidence of a removed big stereo install, indicating that it had been a phat ghetto ride recently. It also STUNK like an ashtray, and had obviously been smoked in regularly.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q75/s720x720/935933_10151426615381957_2119365306_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q73/s720x720/969717_10151426615346957_295857888_n.jpg

Oooooh yeah....yummy. Someone spent a lot of time grooming this car at the caryard!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q80/s720x720/994800_10151426615416957_1673520108_n.jpg

So the first task was to get it up on the hoist and have a look underneath and see what we had to play with. The car looked in overall good nick, but a vibration under acceleration indicated knackered inner CV joints. We replaced the right hand driveshaft and CVs as it was falling apart and the vibration remained.... so we had the left-hand one (which was unavailable new) rebuilt.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q73/s720x720/1016126_10151456400571957_755072606_n.jpg

We also replaced the shocks with new Monroe Reflex OEM-replacement struts and Tein SpecS springs for a slightly more sensible ride height and firmness. We also went on the scrounge at a wrecker's to scavenge some bits of missing and broken trim. When we got it back on the ground it was already looking a bit better!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q73/s720x720/1044054_10151466224191957_1348695580_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q74/s720x720/1001301_10151466224196957_688388223_n.jpg

More to follow....

[Badger]

Next step was to remove the air conditioning. It was completely non-functional and the bearings on the compressor were a bit grumbly... so off came the front...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q71/s720x720/382553_10151478622146957_331407444_n.jpg

And out came a pile of useless crap...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q82/s720x720/998827_10151478622156957_1106258237_n.jpg

Gear oil was replenished with something that'd be kind to the LSD... Some Motul FF-LSD Type II I had lying about.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1001224_10151516991546957_656745112_n.jpg

[Badger]

Now, the next thing we wanted to tackle was the sunroof. The other Lantis-R in the series was a non-sunroof model, as most of them seem to be. Also, with the lower headliner of the sunroof car, fitting inside with a helmet is a bit of a squeeze so we thought we'd like to remove it, and help remove a bit of weight.

The seats and carpets all came out of the car for cleaning to try and de-cigarette them, so figured we'd make a mess while we were there and started pulling out the sunroof...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1005650_10151493379186957_1897592717_n.jpg

The idea would be to swap the sunroof out with a bonded-in carbon-fibre sandwich panel shaped to the roofline. Having never worked with fibreglass or carbon fibre myself before (at least not in terms of laying it up myself) I thought it'd be a cool way to learn, on a car I didn't care too much about if the results weren't 100% perfect.

With the seals removed, the roof was flush enough to lay-over with packing tape to enable the mould to pop off the roof once cured:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q80/s720x720/1001912_10151493379126957_1918209627_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q71/s720x720/1069242_10151493379176957_1567674019_n.jpg

Then, layers of chopped-strand fibreglass were cut to rough size:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q79/s720x720/969526_10151493379826957_419936979_n.jpg

And then wetted out with PE Resin and laid over and rolled into a laminate:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q83/s720x720/1002547_10151493380001957_1728706726_n.jpg

An oil column heater in the car helps the resin cure in the mid-winter cold!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q72/s720x720/971542_10151493379971957_1537605664_n.jpg

After a day's curing, I could pop the mould panel right off the roof, and here's what it looks like!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q84/s720x720/1001215_10151499732316957_707978245_n.jpg

Now, because we were going to be laying up Carbon onto this mould and vacuum-bagging it down, we wanted the mould to be stiff enough no to distort so I took some Polystyrene off-cuts, some newspaper and some more fibreglass cloth and laid up a strongback on the rear surface of the mould, and again employed a heater to cure. The PE resin stunk out my garage and house something chronic! Awful stuff!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q80/s720x720/1075812_10151499732331957_626975802_n.jpg

Once that was done, I cut up some carbon cloth to size as well as some 3mm CoreCell M80 core-foam I had in the form of off-cuts from my work. This would enable me to build a sandwich panel with a single layer of carbon either side.... stiff enough but very very light! So on with the carbon, foam and epoxy and here you can see me laying out the peel-ply onto the sandwich before placing the bleeder cloth and vacuum bag.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q81/s720x720/1012262_10151503859481957_768849818_n.jpg

Once it was all vacuum-bagged up it was left to cure overnight:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q79/s720x720/1012705_10151503274611957_2037668606_n.jpg

Here you can see the carbon, still on the mould after the peel ply was removed. This is the underside of the panel. Only one flaw where our initial vacuum was too high and pulled the resin out of the cloth. This is just the underside though and of little consequence:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q79/s720x720/539564_10151503425496957_1412575969_n.jpg

When we pulled the panel off the mould, we did have a couple of air bubbles between the top surface and the core foam. This was due to us not getting the vacuum distribution quite right. If it had been on a more important project I'd have re-made the panel, but I was able to back-drill through the underside and fill these air bubbles with epoxy, and strap the panel back to the mould to re-bond them. This worked a treat and although there are a couple of small tell-tale ripples in the final panel, it came out looking more than good enough for a $1000 car!

This meant we could finally junk the heavy sunroof:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/r270/s720x720/548882_10151506592811957_1719698415_n.jpg

Leaving "the cockroach" with a nice hole in the roof:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q75/s720x720/526832_10151506593016957_1117041215_n.jpg

And here you can see the panel trimmed roughly and sitting over the hole. Here it still needs a final trim to size before being bonded in:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q85/s720x720/970279_10151509821356957_1602710694_n.jpg

Once trimmed to size, the panel was stuck back onto the mould with double-sided tape. This allowed us to use the mould to position the panel flush with the roof. A couple of Lotus wheels to help with the necessary hold-down force and some tape to secure it in place and voilà!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/s720x720/1094957_10151514818261957_86874285_n.jpg

The edges of the hole were then all sanded down to form a good bonding surface.

So followed a couple of hours inside the car, upside down laying strips of carbon-cloth pre-wetted with epoxy around the edge and the end result is rather successful I think!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q82/s720x720/999059_10151514903686957_518654863_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q80/s720x720/644231_10151514903866957_1179694887_n.jpg

The finish isn't 110% perfect but it's better than I thought I'd be able to realistically achieve, and it's very functional and light!

You can see that the panel matches the curve of the roof perfectly:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q75/s720x720/536695_10151514903616957_2125617080_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/s720x720/44629_10151514903611957_1086148618_n.jpg

We're now going to fill in the slight gutter we left around the edges to blend it into the roof prior to a light buff of the panel then we'll blow it over with a coat of black and you'll never even know it ever had a sunroof

That's all for the moment

[HMT]

And there i am, wishing my car had a sunroof :)
Nice project though :D

[Rupewrecht]

Ha, ingenious!

[Noble323]

haha your the first person I know that took off their sunroof instead of installing one.

[NaughtyGT]

I must be getting old as I found it draining even reading through each post & pic haha :p I know the steel sunroofs, complete with tracks & all for an MX6 are heavy.

Full marks for effort on the work you've done & all best with the race!

[Badger]

If you think that was tiring and long to read, don't look at my other build.... it got slightly out of hand!

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=15&t=574785&mid=2300&nmt=Exige+S1+over-winter+Refresh

[derb]

Oh you evil bugger, I've just spent a couple of hours going through that thread. You should change your title to engineering pornographer.

[Badger]

What can I say? I'm a bit of a perfectionist! In a way it's nice to have a car like our tatty Lantis to work on as I'm able to not be too fussy about how stuff turns out. On the Lotus only the best will do! :)

[Badger]

"The Cockroach" had its first track-outing at Hampton Downs yesterday. It was just a trackday/shakedown session aimed at getting a baseline and seeing if we could/would break anything on the car.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1175685_10200463362369111_205109099_n.jpg

We managed four sessions before we broke it, finding the radiator end tank seal wasn't up to the task. Also we're cracking the front strut tops quite badly so we'll repair/remake these.

So all in all, a successful day. The car ran well and demonstrated the kind of pace and consistency that should allow us to compete up the pointy end of the field! It's also shown up the weak points we need to address

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVkEJH_RM2I

Also, it's done 260,000km and didn't use a drop of oil! Brilliant!

[Cosmo Dude]

Sounds nice and the understeering was at least consistent.

[Badger]

All road legal as of today! :)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/CockroachWOF.jpg

[derb]

Nice! Now wear your helmet every time you drive it to mess with traffic.

[Badger]

Been chipping away at the car the last couple of weeks. Just finished making some custom brackets to mount the race seat which should get us nice and low in the car.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/SeatBrackets.jpg

[Lantis racer]

Nice piece

[Badger]

Got the seat and harnesses in today, so much lower in the car now which is great, and should hold me in nice and secure

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/SeatFitted.jpg

This means we've just got a wheel alignment to go this week and we're all ready for Round 1 on Saturday:)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/ReadyToRace.jpg

[Badger]

Hi All,

Well we had a pretty interesting weekend, but it came out quite well. The conditions were tricky, being wet and changeable and with a massive grid of 46 cars, track space was always going to be at a premium. I managed to get 3/4 of a clear lap in a damp qualifying and managed to qualify second, which put me on grid 2 for the first race.

I got a good start and managed to lead for the first part of the race until it started to dry then the faster cars like the DC2 Integras reeled me in. Unfortunately suffered some panel damage when trying to slip under one of the DC2s after he outbraked himself and then turned right into me not expecting me to be there. I also had another nudge when I collected a Toyota Celica when putting a lap on him, that one was my fault in that he braked early and held wide as he passed the blue flags and I dived for the inside thinking he was letting me through... unfortunately he hadn't seen me and he closed the door on me and we touched.

Thankfully front guards are in plentiful supply around here although we'll just repair the ones we've got and buff them up! Nothing else damaged, just a scratch :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1383527_10151611521826957_1115140732_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q73/s720x720/1239950_10151611521976957_1297342088_n.jpg

Here's my footage from the first race, fighting back to second at the finish and narrowly missing out on the lead as the leader ran into issues at the line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2azA33_gztE

Then in the second race it was dry and the quicker cars were unable to be held back as they just had too much straightline pace for me and mugged me up the hill each lap. I fought as hard as I could though. I had another touch with a 205 who decided he'd not give me racing room, but it wasn't really a bother to me as it only crunched the guard that was already damaged from race 1.... the 205 was immaculate before he started... less so now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqWiczjdwq0

I ended up 6th which was the best I could do given the circumstances. Ended up third overall for the weekend, which may become second as there's rumours one of the cars ahead of mine is to be excluded from the championship for cheating... we will wait and see.

This coming weekend we'll pull the guards off and get to work with the hammer and dollies :)

[Rupewrecht]

That was actually pretty good to watch! The lack of power really hurts you, i can see. Interesting that you make up so much of it in the corners.

[Lantis racer]

So what's the best way to tune the v6 without changing any parts?

[rolly]

You did a fantastic job George.

4 things I have learnt.

Don't turn up with a full tank of gas (I can still do another 200ks after driving home)
Loose the A/C for wieght savings
Do something with the standard suspension to enable the tyres to get some decent temperature in them.
Don't get in George's way ;)


oh and the civic is not being excluded yet. If he turns up next time with a more standard suspension setup he will retain his points

[Badger]

All good findings Simon :) And I fight fair... I'll hold my ground in the corners because I can't rely on my straight line speed to make up for quarter given around the curves. Unfortunately my incident with the Celica was an error of judgement on my part, I had to choose a side and chose the wrong one!! :(

It's a bit silly really, the Civic on supposedly non-legal suspension and running obviously bigger brakes (callipers hard up against the edge of 15" steel wheels!) and the Pug running 195 width tyres.... the rules have been published for 6 months now, everyone knows the deal, we've had to fall in line, I hope this is the end of leniency for blatant breaches of the regulations.

[project.r.racing]

You did a fantastic job George.

4 things I have learnt.

Don't turn up with a full tank of gas (I can still do another 200ks after driving home)
Loose the A/C for wieght savings
Do something with the standard suspension to enable the tyres to get some decent temperature in them.
Don't get in George's way ;)


oh and the civic is not being excluded yet. If he turns up next time with a more standard suspension setup he will retain his pointsturn up with half tank and 2x20L jerry cans. do 10L fills when required.

a/c parts = 30kg all up. loose it if it doesn't work.

get camber bolts or tops.

no advice re george's way.

[rolly]

All good findings Simon :) And I fight fair... I'll hold my ground in the corners because I can't rely on my straight line speed to make up for quarter given around the curves. Unfortunately my incident with the Celica was an error of judgement on my part, I had to choose a side and chose the wrong one!! :(

It's a bit silly really, the Civic on supposedly non-legal suspension and running obviously bigger brakes (callipers hard up against the edge of 15" steel wheels!) and the Pug running 195 width tyres.... the rules have been published for 6 months now, everyone knows the deal, we've had to fall in line, I hope this is the end of leniency for blatant breaches of the regulations.

Mate I know you fight fair - was just given you a rubbing.

Both 205's have been warned about tyre size - and beleive it or not it's not the fast one kicking up a stink!

Tyson is being good about it - I think he is within the rules (just), he basically gets caught up in the 'over developed car' category. The car is boardlerline eligible anyway (standard) - so the extra development on top just makes it worse. I don't know enough about honda brakes to say either way.

I think I am hooked now, so will be happier to take out the luxury items like you to get a bit more speed.

[Badger]

A/C is a reasonable weight saving and the shorter belt helps, although you've already got that Simon. It does help to clear airflow to the radiator too. It obviously doesn't make a massive difference to anything though, although it makes things in the engine bay much tidier and easier access.

project.r.racing, camber bolts etc aren't legal. as you have to retain original struts and geometry only using whatever factory adjustment was in the car in the first place.

Don't know what the pug guys are complaining about, tyre rules have been fixed for months.... tyre size was one of the big attractors of the Lantis which helps in longer races. The shame is the fast Peugeot is far too nice to race really, poor little thing's going to get a massive beating

[derb]

Rubbing is racing! Thanks for keeping us all up to date.

[Lantis racer]

All good points Rolly, we need to find 5 to 10 HP, what spark plugs are you guys using? I have heard good things about the Denso spark plugs but they are pretty pricey for a spark plug. After the season I want to take the engine out and see if I can get it on a dyno to have a play and see what we can do.

Tyson should have to carry 100KG more weight as the SIR engine that he is using the car was 300lb more than than the model he now has. I think that would make a bit of difference and suspension will slow him down.

That's funny about the 2 Pugs I don't care much about the slower one as he was miles behind me but the rules are the rules. The fast one is very very quick for a "standard car"

I'm not doing much development at this stage going to take the Air Con out and change the alternator as I developed problems during the races and that's about it maybe Simon we could get together and do the air con together over a couple of Saturdays as I'm guessing when you have done it once the second time will be much quicker.

It's been really interesting watching your videos George I think I can get to a half second from improving my lines. It's hard when you get behind the Celica and Currens as they slow you up on corners and if you get past them I have to run like the gingerbread man or else they swallow you on the straight.

Thanks for the tip on the Brakes they were the best part of the car.

I was happy with my weekend, got a couple of 1:29 lap times, drove the car home, found the problem which caused heat to raise in race 2 and made me take it easy from half way through the race and I finished in the top half in both races. I just need to sort the tyres out as I need to get into the 1:27's to start to make the top 10's that are my goal before seasons end.

[projectb10]

A/C is a reasonable weight saving and the shorter belt helps, although you've already got that Simon. It does help to clear airflow to the radiator too. It obviously doesn't make a massive difference to anything though, although it makes things in the engine bay much tidier and easier access.

project.r.racing, camber bolts etc aren't legal. as you have to retain original struts and geometry only using whatever factory adjustment was in the car in the first place........

What is the braking performance of the Lantis like over the race distance? Is that something you could "develope"?

[Badger]

Braking hasn't proven to be a problem at all, it's probably the strongest car in the field under brakes.

[rolly]

Yup, the three of use use the same pads and I agree it would be a strength compared to the other cars.

Too bad we aren't along side the toyotas and hondas by the end of the straight to out break them!

Apart from the 3sge toyotas I would also say we have one of the least stressed engines as well - can't wait for the one hour to watch them start to drop off.

Mark - the tyres were the biggest factor in getting me in front of the celicas and currens. They basically took me from 'also ran' to in the top 10.

The other biggest factor in my results was qualifying well. I have the 12th fastest lap (actually it is worse than that because he has not put in lap times of cars that DNF'd), and yet I am 6th overall.

If you see me on race mornings in a grass skirt a bone through the nose and a stick jumping around and chanting, i'm just trying to make it rain.

The SAAB just got scrapped in the car park, so new springs may be off the menu now :(

[Cosmo Dude]

How much are you allowed to change the engines?
The 2.5 KL in Japanese spec had larger port heads (KL-101 and KL-1A1). You would probably need to match a Millenia intake to it at the same time. See below

http://www.davidandjemma.com/mazda/images/KL/runnercompare.jpg

[rolly]

Not allowed to change anything in the motor, otherwise all the honda boys will be putting type R parts in (they probably are).

If there is any questioning about your motor making more than stock HP it will be put on a dyno for you to prove.

[Cosmo Dude]

Shame, I'd like to see how much power that combo would make.
Another option is to add a VRIS controller so you can tune when the valves in the inlet manifold operate. It'd need a little dyno time to tune but there may be gains in acceleration without changing power.

[Rupewrecht]

if you guys need to drop a little bit of engine temp, i'd suggest removing the rubber strip at the front of the scuttle panel - i used to see a few ° drop.

Also a bit of extra rear toe will help in the corners, too. There's enough adjustment in the standard system to get +2mm which makes a world of difference. I'd even think about going to a (thinner) 1.8 front swaybar as that'll make it seem like the rear is thicker...lol

[Cosmo Dude]

if you guys need to drop a little bit of engine temp, i'd suggest removing the rubber strip at the front of the scuttle panel - i used to see a few ° drop.


I'd argue against that. The more air you can push through the radiator the better, bypassing won't help as the engine isn't designed to be air cooled. That's just my view.
The ZXi front splitter (standard Mazda parts), if you can find one could see some benefit.

[Badger]

Out in front, where she belongs!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1375744_701255266568813_600290315_n.jpg

[Rupewrecht]

I'd argue against that. The more air you can push through the radiator the better, bypassing won't help as the engine isn't designed to be air cooled. That's just my view.

Perhaps, but it just means the hot engine bay air escapes from the back/top of the engine bay as well as the back/bottom area - still going through the radiator the same way as i see it.

[project.r.racing]

i'd be looking at weight savings. if you cannot touch the suspension, engine or brakes. the dropping as much weight is the key to this comp.

carbon bonnet.
loose all interior.
loose all a/c components.
use soft compound tyres. mediums or hards wont get enough heat in them to work properly.
find a type r gearbox with lsd.

[Badger]

i'd be looking at weight savings. if you cannot touch the suspension, engine or brakes. the dropping as much weight is the key to this comp.

carbon bonnet.
loose all interior.
loose all a/c components.
use soft compound tyres. mediums or hards wont get enough heat in them to work properly.
find a type r gearbox with lsd.
Clearly haven't read the thread or the thread title.

It's already a type R with the Type R box.
Interior must be complete,
A/C is already removed,
Tyre compounds are regulated, we're already using one of the better compounds available.
Bodywork must be stock, we have already removed the optional sunroof and replaced with carbon.

[project.r.racing]

Yup read the whole thread. I guess since you haven't even thrown up a link to the supp regs that we're all guessing on ways to help.

I guess the comp can be pretty lop sided since you need to keep things completely stock. I also guess when deciding to compete in this type of comp, that vehicle selection really need to be though out before purchase.

[rolly]

Yup read the whole thread. I guess since you haven't even thrown up a link to the supp regs that we're all guessing on ways to help.

I guess the comp can be pretty lop sided since you need to keep things completely stock. I also guess when deciding to compete in this type of comp, that vehicle selection really need to be though out before purchase.

Car selection is vital - finding the top performing cars for 2k or under is the hard part

DC2 teg Si for under 2k? yeah nah. the 2 gen 3 Mr2's are legit, and they suck in the wet :)

the Civic that won race two is not legit and will not be allowed to appear again based on a conversation I just had.

Mine is bone stock type R (no stripping or lowered etc) and can get into a corner faster than the tegs and the Mr2's it just gets left behind on the straight. It will certainly be interesting to see how we go on the twisty circuits that are less dominated by big power.

Oh and the mazdas are the only ones that are well under 2k :) the rest of the front runners were all bought for 2k before they even did anything .

[Lantis racer]

Good point on the rules, see below page and let us know any loop holes you can see,

http://2kcup.com/?p=5

Also 2kcup on facebook has photos and videos of the Competition.

[Alemenara]

If you were really looking to squeez as much out of the car as possible I'd recommend tearing the motor down and replacing the piston rings & bearings and possibly replacing the pistons themselves aswell with higher compression ones. I'd also recommend changing the clutch out for something with better clamping force. Whilst you have the motor pulled apart i'd thoroughly clean the intake manifold as they like to gum up with carbon deposits same goes with the throttle body. I'd also recommend remapping the fuel maps (if you know someone) so you get the most out of 98 octane fuels. If you really wanted to go the extra mile you could also change the VRIS points and maybe also make your own engine mounts out of polyurethane so you get better throttle response. Apart from that the only things i could recommend is using plugs that provide a twin spark and possibly stripping out the rear window motors, heater core & fan etc and any sound deadening you can get at. Maybe also consider using braided brake lines aswell, and a replacement fuel pump can't hurt either.

[project.r.racing]

Good point on the rules, see below page and let us know any loop holes you can see,

http://2kcup.com/?p=5

Also 2kcup on facebook has photos and videos of the Competition.
2.0.1: The following parts are open AS LONG as they retain the same design and functionality (when compared to the standard unit):

■Brake pads
■Braided brake lines in place of rubber lines.
■Suspension Springs. (this cannot be interpreted as valve springs or any other springs)
■Engine Air filter (panel design).
■Strut Braces, one per axle allowed, only if fitted from factory.
■Engine Clutch (this cannot be interpreted as diff clutch packs)
■Steering Wheel (this cannot be interpreted as the turning wheels on the exterior of the car)The way I read that is you could go lowered and stiffer springs. Lowered and sriffer springs still are the same design and functionality.

And a jdm rear brace would also be acceptable since you have a massed produced jdm car.

2.3: Tire Eligibility: DOT-approved street tires only; minimum tread depth 1.5mm; minimum treadwear rating 190, no exceptions. No DOT rated semi slick tires allowed.Cannot help you out with tyres. The writer of the rules hasn't a good grasp on english grammer or spelling.

One side note I will add the they allow roll cages. Interior panels can be removed to accommodate the roll cage. May be a way to bypass some rules. And a roll cage will also stiffen up the rear end if you cannot find a jdm strut brace. Yeah its a big cost, but will drasticly improve the vehicles handling if you can find equal weight savings.

---

It's amazing to think they let you charge around panel rubbing without a roll cage. Oh well, keeps the costs down. They'd never allow it here in oz.

Because you a limited with mods that might otherwise level the play field. Car choice is critical. I'm doubtful you'd find a early 90s mazda that could compete with a early 90s honda or pug. their marketing departments back then were aimed at very different people.

If you could find a old mitsubishi cyborg, the you'd have a 90hp 900kg weapon on your hands. we never got them in australia as our import rules were that relaxed until about 8 years ago.

[ghetto3]

I found the bit about panel damage or visible primer paint getting you the boot a bit weird.
Extensive damage yeah, i guess but it doesn't seem to fit with low budget 'av a crack' racing.
Nascar style shannigans or blighty touring car tactics aren't cool for sure, but "rubbing" is inevitable when you combine limited regs' and limited abilities.

[project.r.racing]

I found the bit about panel damage or visible primer paint getting you the boot a bit weird.I've seen it a few times before in other categories.

Mainly its the perception that if you have alot of cars running around with multiple coloured panels and primer showing. The cars look like junkers. Junkers are perceived as dangerous. And the category would be trying to distance themselves from that perception.

Motorsports has a very large political presence in the background that many do not know about. Clubs and categories are continiously fighting for fame and fortune. Any little dirt any category can dig you for, is more money and track time for their own category.

And at a guess the running without roll cages is borderline anyway. So the organisers of the category need to keep the NZ motorsport chiefs happy to keep it running.

Anyone that used to do skidpan days or motorkhanas with me can confirm that bad perceptions can kill of a category or an event. Politics always gets in the way.

[ghetto3]

Kudos to all you guys that do put the time, effort and cash into tracking your cars...
The bull**** does stop with the flag drop.

Those limited abilities far exceeding my own, i mental blanked on the spelling of ametuer, amature...spellcheck where art thou!

[Lantis racer]

I've seen it a few times before in other categories.

Mainly its the perception that if you have alot of cars running around with multiple coloured panels and primer showing. The cars look like junkers. Junkers are perceived as dangerous. And the category would be trying to distance themselves from that perception.

Motorsports has a very large political presence in the background that many do not know about. Clubs and categories are continiously fighting for fame and fortune. Any little dirt any category can dig you for, is more money and track time for their own category.

And at a guess the running without roll cages is borderline anyway. So the organisers of the category need to keep the NZ motorsport chiefs happy to keep it running.

Anyone that used to do skidpan days or motorkhanas with me can confirm that bad perceptions can kill of a category or an event. Politics always gets in the way.

It's also to keep competitors inline, there was a couple of rubs that happened over the weekend with 1 warning to a repeat offender but they have that rule for if someone starts being an idiot and goes over the top as a way to get them out.

[4dnut]

HiGuys,
Our social club at work owns the quicker 205 you mentioned. Firstly I would like to say I had never thought of a Lantis, but that LSD is going to pay massive dividends. Good choice on the Lantis. People have said about the diffenence in the two 205's. Don standard road pads, cheap Chinese tyres no wheel alignment,never raced. We are race guys ,I have raced for oveer 20years and still do, my brother hasn't raced for a few years but has 20 years race experience. We changed shocks and springs and gave the car a full setup. The rear torsion bars do allow for some corner weighting. As for power, its a joke. My buddy has a rolling road at home. wait for it , it makes 106.5hp at the wheels. Basically the car handles well and carries great corner speed and is crazy light(860kg).What I like is that my brother can return to racing as its cheap,racing is close with many different types of cars. Oh yeah, we stuffed up on tyres, we got given at set of tyre the same size that were on the car, we have replaced with slightly smaller. We haven't made a fuss, haven't complained about anyone elses cars, just want to go and have a cheap bit of fun for the weekend.
Paul

[Badger]

And the 309 lower arms to give more camber? ;)

But seriously it's a nice car you guys have, I'm just pissed you managed to find one so cheap given that I've been looking for one that nice as a road car for years! :)

[bjk]

I wonder if there would've been any FTO's around cheap enough to compete. Would be interested to see how it would fare.

[Badger]

There's an FTO racing in the series. The GPX/Mivec ones are ineligible.

[bjk]

There's an FTO racing in the series. The GPX/Mivec ones are ineligible.
Ahh, fair enough. A GR/GX or a 4 cyl?

[Badger]

A GR I believe :)

[bjk]

How're they doing? Haha.

I drove a Lantis as a hire car once when mine was getting repaired (blocked radiator). Seemed pretty nippy, but unsure if it was the V6 or not.

[Badger]

They weren't running at Round 1, expect to see them at Round 2

[project.r.racing]

HiGuys,
Our social club at work owns the quicker 205 you mentioned. Firstly I would like to say I had never thought of a Lantis, but that LSD is going to pay massive dividends. Good choice on the Lantis. People have said about the diffenence in the two 205's. Don standard road pads, cheap Chinese tyres no wheel alignment,never raced. We are race guys ,I have raced for oveer 20years and still do, my brother hasn't raced for a few years but has 20 years race experience. We changed shocks and springs and gave the car a full setup. The rear torsion bars do allow for some corner weighting. As for power, its a joke. My buddy has a rolling road at home. wait for it , it makes 106.5hp at the wheels. Basically the car handles well and carries great corner speed and is crazy light(860kg).What I like is that my brother can return to racing as its cheap,racing is close with many different types of cars. Oh yeah, we stuffed up on tyres, we got given at set of tyre the same size that were on the car, we have replaced with slightly smaller. We haven't made a fuss, haven't complained about anyone elses cars, just want to go and have a cheap bit of fun for the weekend.
Paul300kg lighter than a lantis. no wonder you corner better.

[4dnut]

Actually 205 Peugeot sport arms. C'mon George , In the forums you saying you just want to go racing but rumours tells me your the one complaining alot about peoples cars? We still have radio and alarm in our car, I've heard of people stripping excess weight even removing rear wiper motors. We just want to go and have a bit of fun. No one respects a whinger.

Paul

[Badger]

Come on, there's a bit of a difference between running non factory suspension components and removing a broken rear wiper blade. I would happily trade my rear wiper for a full Mazdaspeed suspension setup! ;-) If you want to split hairs we're also running without an interior lamp on the inside as the mount isnt there for the non sunroof variant on the sunroof cars and we removed the indicator self-cancelling as it wouldn't work with the boss kit for the steering wheel we have used.... but I don't really think the organisers care too much about such things.

And I have complained about nobody at all. James has asked my opinion on a couple of cars and my response has always been if the organisers deem it legal to race I'm happy to race it. It was another racer in the series that noticed from a photo how much camber your car was running and just remarked that it would be awesome if they ran that much from factory :-)

I too just want to go racing and I accept that your car is as quick as it is through just good preparation and time spent on it, which is awesome. We've built our car with the rules in mind and we've been very open with what we've done with the car as you can see in this thread. You're already at a massive advantage with your experience behind the wheel and experiences and resources in setting up the car, you guys shouldn't need to be pushing the limits of the rules to be running at the front when most of the guys in the series (myself included) are first time racers just wanting to go out and have some fun.

Winning isn't what we are in it for, we chose the wrong car for that. We wanted something cheap and reliable that looked like a bit of fun that could hopefully chase the tail of the leaders. We'd rather be in 8th having some doorhandle to doorhandle battles than be winning by half a lap

[project.r.racing]

It's why series like this always turn to s@#t after a few seasons. Its not a level playing field for everyone, and s@#t always gets thrown up.

Personally I like the series that leave suspension and wheels open. does make the cars $1000 more expensive, but everyone can be brought up to a level playing field if the owner is will to do so.

Ballast is the only way to really even up the field in the current rules and regs for this series. But adding say a 10/20/30kg block of cerment (for 1st/2nd/3rd) to a car means all cars need mounting points designed and fabrucated in the same location for all cars. Kinda hard when its a low cost series and all interiors must stay in place.

If the pug 205 has sport arms, and the pug 205 is a sport model, then it is witin the rules. If it is not a sport model, then it is illegal.

In the end, if you are just doing it for fun, you gotta let the above stuff go. Accept the Lantis's flaws of ****ty soft suspension and over weight issues. And prepare to strut when you do get a win over you lighter more powerful competitors.

[Badger]

As I said, I ain't in it to win it. If we were, we'd have bought a DC2 or an SW20. Richy and I always wanted to see what a Lantis would go like and it was dirt cheap and sounds awesome with a straight-pipe on!

There's a fairly prescriptive set of rules and nobody's quibbling about minor things, but the one car that has already been excluded for cheating had a close-ratio LSD gearbox fitted from a Type R Civic as well as a bunch of non-legal suspension and the car was already skating on thin ice as it was an engine-swapped car.

It's a fun series. Turn a cheap car into a racer by fitting some semi decent tyres and brake pads and go for a hoon, when people start spending big bucks on aftermarket / factory uprated components (not talking about you guys with the Pug), even if you already conveniently have these parts sitting in your shed from past projects or "connections" then it's all getting a bit silly when you consider you're only trying to beat a bunch of novices with clapped out old bangers.

[Lantis racer]

Hey 4dnut love the car looks well prepared. It sounds like a pretty cool social club are you going to have different members running each race or same driver each time?

What sort of lap times do you think the car is capable of? I was talking to another racer and discussing setting a time limit to keep the speeds down as we don't have cages? This would also stop people developing their cars to much.

What are your thoughts on improvement to the series?

Do you run video I just haven't seen anything on you tube looks like your bro made some nice moves in race 2.

Do you think the $2500 rule will be enough to stop people spending to much?

Also I have saw you wrote that you ran 2 small tyres I thought smaller was ok as one lantis ran 15's. I thought you running 14's would be ok?

Glad to hear you boys are enjoying the series I look forward to seeing you at future rounds.

[4dnut]

George, I wasn't trying to sling mud it's just what I heard through the motorsport grapevine. We did this as a team building exercise for our employees, afterwork we fluff around with a beer and car novices are learning from my brother and myself. I think this series is a great concept and does come down a lot to car choice, I think the Lantis with LSD is not a bad choice, it rains a lot when you go racing. We have chosen a good car but, man it does have its down sides. You have to rat around to find parts, can't just go to the local wrecker. We have done this on no budget,we were given rotors,brake lines,pads and a clutch. If we were hell bent on winning my buddy who is a paid driver would drive it, even I have gone a bit quicker than my bro but that's not what the series is about. But as I said before its a great opportunity to get back racing for him. I reckon it might have been good for everyone to have had to pay to register for the series,say $50-80ea. This would have given the organisers a pot of cash , because as I see it now James must be doing a crazy amount of work just for warm fuzzies. I also thought everyone having to buy a weight box would have been a good idea,up front add weight drop out of the top 10 reduce weight. I am hoping that this series is one of camaraderie, its just for fun. I like the thought of after the race having a beer and having a yarn.
Paul

[4dnut]

Tyres, we stuffed , we got given tyres same size as was on it. I am not a facebook guy so didn't see the list. Everyone uses 195/50/15 on pugs because they are cheaper/better than 185/55/15(we have some coming just didn't want spend any money ). As for times my buddy and I are quicker than my bro, but he is a very very good consistent driver not ultimately the fastest but consistent and easy on the gear. All we did last weekend was put more gas in the car. He is getting used to the car and neither he or I have driven a frontwheel drive car in anger When I drove it I had it on 2 wheels around turn one on one lap and lets say my backside was puckering. We have a GoPro, and will fit it next time.
Paul

[Badger]

Hear hear, and us too! We never even knew our car had an LSD when we bought it as we thought it was only a rare option on the Type R, but it turns out that it's a very common one as every one I've seen has had it fitted, but it's not the car to have overall and that's cool since we always knew we wouldn't have the pace to stay with the Hondas and MR2s and short of bolting on a hidden turbo or some serious work on the engine, we ain't likely to bridge that gap.

Yeah the car seems quick in the rain, but that's a happy accident more than anything else, and I think I got lucky in the first race taking advantage of other people easing into it.

But I'm not bitter about your car at all and I'd hate to see it ruled out because to my mind it's the coolest/nicest car in the field.. a real David against the goliaths, and on lap times we're on similar pace, so I'm looking forward to some good racing with you guys for the rest of the series :)

[Lantis racer]

Hey Paul I'm keen for a catch up after races car 8 mate. I went and watched the st race and most cars were gone. Glad you didn't put Jason leifting in the car he seemed really quick on Friday.

Love the weight box in the boot idea say starting at 100 kg for first and dropping 10 kg per place back you are in round points. I wouldn't mind a reverse race 2 grid for top 10 to 15. What do you think.

[Badger]

I'd love to see a reverse top ten! I reckon that'd really mix things up for the second race :)

[4dnut]

Yep reckon it would be quite good,25-33 minute races are more than long enough to see even more passing. I was watching at turn5 and a good crowd was genuinely enjoying the racing. 2kcup put on a great show. I would like to see BBQ/beer or something after racing. I think this would foster the group of people into helping each other, when I started racing I had already been involved since about 10yo. Once I started racing at 20 I had a reasonable idea on how to make things go fast, I was always open about what I was doing for shock rates/spring rates/pressures/ roll centres anything about my car.I upset a lot of people, I was young compared to the people I was racing against and I had a good car,I got accused of cheating but all it really was is a 2.0BDG escort is always going to be faster than hillman hunter even if Schumacher was driving it. There are some guys in the 2kcup grid with way more experience than me, but it is an opportunity for these more experienced guys to help novices sort there cars help them with driving etc, hopefully we end up with guys moving on into other categories.Oh yeah Jase was a whisker slower than me, he was not amused and wants another go. Said its the funniest thing he's ever driven

Paul

[Badger]

Paul,

I think the intention is do make the class more social etc, so I think that kinda stuff is coming. I think the first two rounds being V8ST meetings mean we're kinda shuffled to the bottom of the pile with regards to schedule. I should get a BBQ so I can hold an after-match function here in my garage... sounds like I should get you round and be picking your brains on how to overcome the Lantis' shortcomings! :)

[Lantis racer]

He will be to busy there George looking at mine and all the problems. Haha well the BBQ is a great idea and I'll bring a meat pack.

[Lantis racer]

I would like the reverse to have race 1 winner pull a marble between 8 an 15 out and that is how many reverse the next race. That means no one can race for pole and will create more passing at the front.

[4dnut]

I am no expert , and I always listen to other peoples advice. Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel, most things have already been done. If I can help I am more than willing. I reckon Guys like Ray Williams will be so valuable, this is almost back to the old B&H days of production car racing, Ray raced then and will know all the tricks.

Paul

[Badger]

I was having a good chat to Ray the other day. He was pretty interested in the Lantis as he'd thought about getting one, but said he'd stick with the 405 for a couple of rounds and see how it went. It will be interesting to see how he goes, as a well-driven Mi16 should be at the pointy end of the midfield and hanging on to the tail end of the lead bunch, meaning I'll probably be doing battle with him! :)

[4dnut]

t thought he had a 306gti6 under way as well?

[Badger]

You might be right, and be scared if he does. I've been able to turn 1:24s in my GTi6 road car (bog standard) around Hampton Downs so I'd hate to think what a decent driver could do in one that's in good fettle (given Tony Roberts' one didn't seem in the best of health last weekend).

[Lantis racer]

Wow the top 10 is going to be hard to crack soon.

[Clean_Cookie]

Loving the discussion here! Wish we could do similar

[project.r.racing]

Loving the discussion here! Wish we could do similarDo it. Nothing stopping you in oz. Just add a $1200 6 point cage.

[Lantis racer]

If you ran it in Aussie you would be looking at less than $5000 per car, but you could run very similar rules just with cages as standard. The response here in NZ has been impressive with over 80 cars entering the class and even more looking to be prepared.

With pretty standard road tyres what tyre pressure would you guys be running?

[Clean_Cookie]

Hmm maybe with my current hail damaged daily.

[Lantis racer]

Go on clean cookie get out there and have some fun!

[Badger]

Car's all ready for Round 3 this weekend. Currently sitting 6th in the championship out of about 60 cars, although in reality I should be about 3rd or 4th given that we weren't eligible for the second round since we did so well at the first.

Just a wheel alignment to do today:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/My%20Home/GarageDec2013-01.jpg

[Badger]

Just digging this up from the dead!

Finished last season in 4th place overll in the championship, which was a pretty wicked feat since we had it on the dyno after the season and she was making a whopping 119bhp at the engine!

We weren't the quickest car out there by miles, but we had the uncanny ability to finish every race and finish moderately strongly.

For this season, I managed to pick up some sponsorship, which will help me get through the full season without having to scrimp too much. A bit of work on the dyno and repairing a few things managed to get the horsepower up to about 135, and with good compression we were still missing some power.

Had three rounds of the current season and was sitting in about 20th place after two rounds (in a field of about 100 cars), with there being a LOT more serious cars this year. There's about 20 VTEC integras, a LOT of AE111 Levin/Truenos and a few quick Pug 205GTis that realistically we were nowhere near. However we're in with a shout of defending our "Taxi Championship" title, for cars with 4 doors :)

However, just before Round 3, we found that at some point, the catalytic converter had been replaced but the muppet who did it replaced it with a 38mm resonator (stock system is 52.8mm!), which was a pretty hefty exhaust restriction. We're unsure how much power we've got now, but it feels stronger than ever, so hopefully something approaching 155 or so.

Round three saw the car getting a bit of a spruce up after tracking down an OEM Lantis R wing, and going back to stock wheels (was running some horrid Mazdaspeed rims that weren't too good for the brakes). She's looking pretty good now!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/NewWing01.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/NewWing02.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/NewWing03.jpg

Round three was very good in the wet (which suits us a little better than the dry, where the Integras and Levins can make their power advantage tell). We brought the car home with a 3rd and a 14th (from 41st on the grid in the reverse grid race) giving us 4th place for the round and bumping us up too 8th in the championship. Hopefully we can hold our own in the second half of the season and maintain that sort of form in the championship. It'd be good to come home with a top 10 in such a competitive field.

Here's some pics from this weekend just gone:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/S2R3-01.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/S2R3-02.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/esprit350/2kCup/S2R3-03.jpg

And some video footage:

A third party shot of me battling Roman's Integra for 2nd place.... having some fun!:
http://youtu.be/nWsbtZm__2Q

Race 1:
http://youtu.be/1NhVQHsxKdc

Race 2:
http://youtu.be/JwzEgbgrIWs

[Cosmo Dude]

Good to see her going from strength to strength

[Rupewrecht]

Awesome! Thanks for the update.

[bjk]

I didn't know they made this model in RWD! :p

Nice shifting though! (from my impression of it)

[BrownDog]

waaheeyyy she bit sideways there hahah

[luwe]

This Lantis is running a V6 2.0 KF-ZE? 119 bhp to the engine seems a bit low. 133 hp to the wheels would be what I would expect from the 170 crank hp KF-ZE.

What mods have you guys done to the engine and what's the exhaust setup now? I have a rebadged BJ Protege and am running a KF-ZE under the hood so I'm curious.