Upgrade audio

[kyra]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]hey all,

dunno how many of you are audio gurus, but I am seriously sick of the stock astina stereo... it has an ok looking deck with 6 stacker, but that's it... no power at all...speakers sound ****e...etc etc.
i just want to upgrade the deck first.... anybody know any good double din decks (cd/tuner) around... saw a nice pioneer deck with changable colours, but bit steep at 1690.[/color:post_uid0]

[EZZY]

[color=#FF7F00:post_uid0]go to www.panasonic.com.au
find the "audio", "in car" section.
find the ones you like with the model numbers.
PM me and i will try to get good prices for you.[/color:post_uid0]

[Dogo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]you'll get the best performance gain from spending ur $$ on amp and speakers :) so dont waste too much on pretty head units in my opinion. Plus it makes the stereo more noticeable to thieves.

Plan ahead and get a head unit which has the features u will need in the future as u upgrade. If u want amps ( which it sounds like u will ) then try to find something with 5 pre-outs ( front, rear, and sub ). Preferably 4+ volt, but not crucial. Dont worry abt the wattage of the head unit. Thats not much use once u amp the system.

How much $$ will u want to spend overall ? What kind of stereo do u want ? loud ? good sound quality ? tv ? sub ?

also remember the costs of installing the stereo. Whether u do it urself or pay someone else. ( do it urself :;): sooo much better, and easy as pie! ) . But if ur going to pay someone else, get the whole system done at once to reduce the cost.

Dave[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Dogo, do you mean a deck with 3 pre-outs? If he starts looking for 5 (which i think you mean 5 channels of pre-outs) then he wont stop looking.
Try for something second hand, or go with Ezzy, he can get some really good prices on stuff. You can also log onto the CAA website (www.caraudioaustralia.com) and look for some stuff in the for sale section. You can even ask for stuff (WTB). I'd start there. But like Dogo says, try and get all the stuff at one place, and try to get a combo deal. (always walk in shake hand, ask for quote of separate things, then ask for a group deal, then "can you do better", etc, then "what if i pay cash NOW"...they always get excited... :) Its easy enough to install yourself...save then money and buy better stuff!!! Try Stratties for thier combo deals...i think that they arent that bad.
Hope this helps.
Joe

PS if you thinking about buying an Alpine amp tell me cause i'm going to in a little while, and we can see if we get a good deal on a few of em.[/color:post_uid0]

[Dogo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]yeh, 3 or 5. however u look at it. 5 including Left and Right, 3 if u consider it just Front and Rear. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[kyra]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]sorry to dissappoint you guys... but i honestly don't want subs...or amps for that matter... a nice deck and 4 half decent speakers in the factory locations! i'd rather spend up on rims next year....[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]hey there

a mazda is very good for installing a SQ system in it

i own a 96 323F GT V6 and have built a hifi install in it, and must say that the accoustics are very very good, even compared to BMW and VW, which are considered the top brands to build some ICE in it


my system consists of

Clarion DRX-9575 headunit+655Tz cd changer, which will be replaced by a nakamichi MB-100 headunit

plays on a 2way composet DYNaudio system 640MKII and MB Quart RKC 116 powered by a Rockford Fosgate punch 800a4 which will be replaced soon by a soundstream rubicon 805,daVinci or Phoenix Gold ZX-Ti series

Have one subwoofer: Phase Linear Aliante 12 inch.

you dont always use a sub to boom your music. A sub is originally designed to make up for the bass that gets lost in car accoustics and especially when driving. A speaker set can never reach 20 below Herz. if you just want to upgrade your headunit and speakers, try the Dynaudio system, or focal utopia or maybe CDT HD series

as for a headunit that will rock your world and ears in clear and supersound try the nakamichi's[/color:post_uid0]

[Mr_Bob]

[quote:post_uid0="cooldragon"][color=#000000:post_uid0]as for a headunit that will rock your world and ears in clear and supersound try the nakamichi's[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000080:post_uid0]too true, something like the CD45Z,
don't look too hot, less likely a theif will think it's great, and brilliant for SQ.
Naka's are pretty dear this one of the lower end models (though still excellent, it'll sound better than any pioneer:))
from memory around the $700 mark.
that could bear checking though.[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Ok...now you've overstepped the mark, Mr D...and no i dont care that its actually Mr B. Listen...pioneer are the bomb... Pioneer are the best head units in the world, and they are by far the best hu's when it comes to SQ. I think that you guys have been buying something like '****eoneer' or something... but Pioneer are the best...Why would you go and buy something with a name like naikamarchi...i mean whats the suppost to be... "i am ****e" in jappanese or something?! Please...my stomach hurts just thinking about buying any other hu apart from Pioneer! Go for the pioneer hu son!

(Clause 121b: Provo will not be held liable for anything that he posts...at all! Including when he rants on about how he really hates Naikamarchi.)

'nuff said. :cool:[/color:post_uid0]

[Mr_Bob]

[color=#000080:post_uid0]listen here Povo,
it's obvious your just jealous cause you're too poor for a Nakamichi, (hence your nickname[yes i know it says provo])
:D
you should know from your CAA training that nakamichi make some of the best SQ decks. and do i need to say anything about pooneer?

but seriously, each to their own, listen to the HU's we've suggested, make sure it's on good speakers, preferably the ones you intend to buy.
most of the time, the SQ from the HU is far better than the speakers anyway.[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]hmm i mr provo's (car)audio knowledge is not that good...pioneer is just as japanese as nakamichi is and many other brands(sony,clarion,kenwood etcetc) but in home audio nakamichi is one of the best brands that deliver the best HiFi sound quality. They invented the first three head cassette deck in the 70's long before any other brand introduced it.


to any person who has some serious interest in (car) audio , nakamichi should be one of the brands that you MUST have heard of.....if you never had the chance to have listened to it...don't judge it , because anyone who is into serious ICE-ing in cars, will laugh at you comment[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Haha...i was wondering if it was actually the ever ellusive Mr_B. Oh thats right you do have an Astina now hey...well at last you've come to your senses!
cooldragon...watch it...your gonna get your house burned! :p My audio knowledge is as extensive as my sense of sarcasm! :D Obviously you guys dont want to be cheered up...so i'll give you a decent opinion!
For qual hu's... go Naikamarchi , Alpine F1, or Eclipse. Problem with these hu's is that your looking at about $500+ for their entry level hu's!!
But if your after modest sound...as I would think you would then go for the middle range hu's like your Pioneers, Clarions, and Alpines.
People who say that they can hear the difference between a Nakamichi and the top->middle Pioneer or Alpine are kidding themselves. Alright 1 in 10000000000 people may be a composer, and they can hear every tone from 11hz-43khz (i'm waiting for someone to say..."ah provo, you can't hear that"...dont). But for the adverage Jo (haha...get it...my name is Joe), these will be fine.
As Dogo says, look for things that you will be needing in the future, like 2-3 pre-outs, aux in, etc. Anyway when looking at hu's output, you'll find that if they advertise between 4x45 and 4x52...it'll just be 4x22rms anyway! So dont pay that much attention.
I'd say try stay away from Sony...b/c they are (and i'm sure Mr B will back me up here) entry level decks. But if thats all that your after then go for it. Sony do make some decent high lvl decks though.
But Kyra, if your after pioneer, i can import them at pretty decent prices. Just PM me.
But if you want more in depth info, give us, din size (i though all astina's were 1 din), your budget, what you want out of it, and as much info as possible! And you'll have heaps of help not only from myself and Mr B (CAA'ians), but from others as well!
Cheers,
Joe
(if anyone says "oh...Provo you sure you spelt that Narcaminichiwa right, i'll personally kill you and your family!) :laugh:[/color:post_uid0]

[Mr_Bob]

[color=#000080:post_uid0]how am i ellusive? (what does ellusive mean? :D )
not got astina yet. got loan approved, got price, got everything but my freaking car to trade in....(at smash repairers)
WAITING WAITING WAITING

i actually don't mind the Sony decks too much, i've got some mates who ouht them, against my wishes, and the deck wasn't too bad,(high end tho $1,5K+) the rest of thier range isn't terribly exciting, and i've had reliability issues with their stuff in general so i wouldn't touch it again.

if you have difficultly deciding, drop into www.CarAudioAustralia.com, leave your wallet at home tho :)[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well if you say 1500+...then i'd assume it'd be the CDXMP70 (right product code? thats just off the top of my head), which is a really nice deck! And they look good too!
But dont you find that Pioneer are really the only decks in that 'lowish' price range which come with the OEL? But I'm finding that the Pioneer decks are kinda going downhill...i think they're aiming for the mass production side of supply. Cause i'm on my 4th Pioneer deck...and i'm thinking that they dont make em like they used to...which is why i'm going to import and try thier Premier range.

Yeah Kyra, give us some more info and we'll help you or...as Mr_B says take a look at CAA (along with Critter we're just the resident advertisments!), and you'll have so many people giving you advice...you wont know what hit you!!
Sorry got the wrong sp on ellusive
Allusive: 1. containing an illusion 2. containing many illusion.
(yeah!!! go the oxford dictionary!)(that wasn't what i meant...i was implying...sneaky...umm...yeah)
Oh...and Cooldragon...bite me! "mr provo's (car)audio knowledge is not that good"...so far...i've installed about 4 amps, 7 sets of speakers, tuned about 4 systems (i'm proud!), made my own splits (they sound...awesome!) and built a car from scratch (with some help)...so yeah!! Oh and also...take a joke! *:D
And also...i think that we've hi-jacked enough... :) next post will be in reply to Kyra giving us more info! *:angry:

Also...Mr B have you tried the CAA website recently? Cause I can't get into it![/color:post_uid0]

[kyra]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Guys guys guys.... relax with Pioneer vs Nakamichi debating...

I am definately not a car audio expert, so YES, I would like your advice!! As my standard head unit is already double din, I want to upgrade with a ...... double din unit...

Now, I saw this head unit in hot4s mag (don't ask why I paid
for subscription).... and yes, you will probably laugh at me (check the brand name) ... but I do really like this deck....

http://www.kenwood.com.au/car3.asp?gid=1&cid=24&pid=372 (http://www.kenwood.com.au/car3.asp?gid=1&cid=24&pid=372)

Can you honestly tell me I can justify spending 2k on this deck... or do you think there are others on the market which have better features than this deck.

I can sneak it into my price range, but I won't have anything left for decent 6" speakers for a while.

So basically... break down goes something like this.....
Double Din cd/tuner
2 sets of higher spec 6" speakers (front and rear)

The more I keep looking at car audio, the more I realise that I there slim hope I can stick to 1.5k budget... put it this way, I'd rather wait a few more months and spend my cash on something that not only has excellent sound quality, but also looks good to ME.

Thanks heaps already... sorry I started astinagt.com forum fights!

Cheers

Bill



[B][/color:post_uid0]

[Mr_Bob]

[color=#000080:post_uid0]do what Critter did, goto Mazda, and buy the 1 din pocket, so you don't have the gap,
2 din HU's are a bit of a farce IMO.
(mine is bigger than yours syndrome)
the only feature they have to offer is 2 input media types, so if you need MD and CD, or tape and CD in the dash.

if you want to fill the 2 din space with stereo, look into the Alpine range, i believe they make a 6 cd indash changer,
An Alpine HU and an Alpine indash stacker = 2 din. Alipne are right up there for SQ, i'd spend your budget on the HU, then get the stacker later if you feel you need it.

Provo: CAA is down ATM, and i'm not sure of the code of my mates Sony HU,
it's got a black face, but when you turn it on, it becomes a screen (kinda like JVC chameleon) when you press a button it's flips over and down revealing the CD slot, and the back of the face has got a blue screen, right red blacklights behind buttons, that side is silver.
(he likes those kinda gimmicks)[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Haha...kyra...dont worry dude...we love our debates!
I'm supporting Mr_B and critter there...go and buy one of those pockets. If your going to spend $1.5k, then i'd be going to the alpine phantom face or a high qual single din...but the only prob with the PF is that you'd need a external amp. I'm not a fan of 2 din hu...b/c of the price, and unless you need the 2 din features, i wouldn't go there...you can get a single din hu which will have the same features (maybe not both tape and cd), plus you'll get other things.
Kenwood are a pretty good brand, not the best, but a medium range deck IMO. But if youe gong to be spening that much...i'd be going for a nak, eclipse, alpine or (if you can lower yourself this low) a high end pioneer.
But what i've learnt...WAIT til you have the money to buy what you really want, and what your aiming for in the end...it'll not only be useless upgrading all the time, but you'll waste your money. Set out a set of guidlines that you want to achieve and go at them one by one. Starting with hu, then speakers, etc...and go down the list...thats what i'm doing...and i'm only half-way through...i think its one of the better ways to go about it.
But if you want us to recommend some decks, tell us, what you like (plain or flashy), what you will need (cd/md), what your planning to do in the future...and no...i wont only give you pioneer decks... :D[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Provo>> didnt mean to upset you..but really if you listen to a pioneer HU then to a nakamichi, then switch back to a pioneer...trust me you WILL hear the difference.....

i've also did a lot of installing...14 different setups in different cars and different brands so i can tell you i've been around listening to very many brands. i dont say that pioneer is a bad brand..it just won't reach the naka quiality. Pioneer used to make very good mid price installs, but lately i liked blaupunkt and clarion and alpine better....easier control and better sound.......

but i wont argue with you anymore....i can take a joke dont worry

by the way , what kind of astina do you drive? It seems that the astina is a lot more popular with you guys in down uner than here in The netherlands...much more accesories also.....


i envy you guys![/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I actually find that Pioneer are really user friendly compared to the others, and also that Clarion are kinda moving downhill along with Pioneer, mainly moving towards the mass market. Blankpunkt i haven't heard so i dont know. I thought that the alpine are pretty easy to control...but i prefer having the OEL even on the lower hu's (aka Pioneer! :). But yep Alpine do sound better, or should I say have a better SQ, but between Alpine and Nak...much difference? Does it justify sometimes paying twice as much? Further more...does the SQ difference justify the price when comparing Pioneer, Kenwood, Clarion and the like? I personally...would save the money (but then again i'm one of the most stingiest people you'll meet). And coold...of course i'm upset!!! I've been crying inbetween posts! And the installs...i didn't mean to take me seriously! I dont know what i've installed (as if i'm actually paying attention!)!
Arguing i think personally is one of the main points of a forumn! It give a really good picture of both side to a story...so i'm expecting a rebuttle! :;):
(Astina's...theres a difference around the world? I thought that they were made in Japan and shipped...) We all have the cool kind![/color:post_uid0]

[Critter]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Best post something here as my name has been mentioned so many times :)

Yep, single DIN unit with a pocket to fill the hole ($11 at your Mazda dealer). Definitely, pass on double DINS.
Personally I can't go past the Alpine range for SQ value and reliability. Naks are excellent but exxy. The Eclipse things are good but no detachable face which bothers me. Kenwood, Pioneer, Clarion all good things, I've just had good service from Alpine.

A good start would be good HU and decent front speakers, the Alpine HUs are resonably grunty for a HU......
Trust me a decent power amp stuffed under a front seat will change your world tho'.
And once you have tried a sub properly set up to simply give you bass extension you'll wonder why you never did before, listen to ALL of the music.

Bill, feel free to pm or email me, I have connections and do know sh1te from clay......[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]yeah indeed a good set of front speakers can change your world! I firstly replaced my standard speakers with a bunch of 13 cm MB Quart 2 way reference-premium line speakers and already found it pretty way better than the paper-y things that were mounted in my astina standard... But since 4 months I've mounted my latest pair of 2 way 15 cm compo's in my front doors..... I didn't hear them in a car before but since i have them they will be hard to beat in my opinion and shame on me that i never heard them before.... I changed the MB Quarts to a DYNaudio Sytem 340 MK II ...now THAT really improved the sound and i think only a pair of Rainbow reference series or CDT HD can match or beat them.....

if u havte the chance to listen to them ...do!! they really convinced me, though....

Provo>>any argueing about this part ?? :;):

i know they might not be THE best sounding for everybody but for me, for now they are...

playing on a RockFord Fosgate Punch 800a4, which soonly will be replaced by a nice Phoenix Gold ZX 675 Ti or Soundstream DaVinci amp combined with a fully damped car, Brax 1,0 fahrad and a very nice sounding Phase Linear Aliante 12 (also a recommendation!) woofer, it might take a while to improve again.....oh and i purchased the Naka MB 100 last week ..

anyone have any suggestions what else i can upgrade??

hmm nahh i think i'll stick to the engine and body kit performance for now.... :p[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Gimme a minute...i'll find something that I can dispute! :) Well...or you could go the "provo way" and make your own splits! :D You people just wait (I know your saying hehehehe they'll sound like a mouse with its tail being squeezed)... But i'll be beating all of you!!!
Or you could have a look at the Boston range...aparently they make really good stufff... Pioneer Bullets are also good so i've heard along with the Alpine SPA175A (I think) and the Hertz 2 way splits (Mr_b's recommendation to me a little while ago...)(i'm sorry...i just had to recommend something pioneer!) But the MB Quart are most certainly up there!!! I just dont know how anyone can spend the money on it... I just love my money...i cry everytime i buy something over Aus$50!!!
So cool...i'll find something next time...just you wait!!! :angry:[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Provo>> wow! it succeeded me to let u think about it one post *grin* :;):

Boston>>checked! :D

before i purchased the DYNaudio i did some comparing research

i squeezed my choices to a last few and compared those all in my car:

it was between these 2 way component sets:

*Boston Accoustics PRO series
*MB Quart Q Series
*Focal Utopia Series
*CD Technologies HD Series
*Dynaudio System 340 MKII

The CDT and The DYN's really rocked my world while listening mostly to classical,vocals(miss saigon musical DDD recording), R&B,unplugged,Soul,Danced/Trance,HipHop/Rap,Jazz and Guitar music just to compare the different music styles and how their performances were in all catagories(i mostly listen R&B/Soul/HipHop/Jazz).

But because the DYN's were on a big discount for me and the CDT's were way too expensive(cost about 900 US$ over there in Holland) the choice was easy for me....maybe when i win the lottery i'll be tryinmg out the handmade/custom made rainbow reference series(total aluminum/titanium body) which are 4500 US$....how too much money can you have???

and what about the amps.....anything to match my plans: SOundstream DaVinci or PG ZXTi series?

well ....check ya later dude :O[/color:post_uid0]

[Critter]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]cooldragon
Some $$ in that system dude, DaVinci indeed :)

Hang the expense, an Audison HR100 is a REAL amp.....hehe
(spoken by a VRx owner, the Goddess of Automotive Amplifiers....) I think VRx will edge out a ZXti, but some of the Xtants are good too.

Choice in speakers is always to taste, there is nothing that is for everyone. Personally I like the Morels, quite like Dyns as they are/were Dyn design team.
the hard bit is always getting an idea of what they will sound like in the car, demo boards are pretty useless in that regard.[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yeah man..heard a lot of Good things about audison too...but are they SQ as well as SPL? aybe u can tell me more about it...what's the price on the amps that you mentioned in comparison to The PG and SS?Heard a lot about US amps too since they aren't on stock in Holland....those amps are huge power, I heard...but lotsa $$$$ too..... and Soundstream tarantula..up there also!!

Provo>>MB Quart was my previous 2 way set, but they weren't that expensive though.....not as expensive as my Dynaudios were any way... ???

what about Phase Linear Aliante Si series....any of you have heard one in Aussie??

they will ROCK your world especially SQ systemzzz...didn't believe that a woofer could be that good that it won subwoofer of the year awarrds in Europe several years, over Focal utopia, Vega Stroker, JL Audio, RF HE2 etcetc ...but since i own one..... still have to hear one that can match the beauty of that bass!! it even plays 17 Herz Basses(can't even hear that..just FEEL it ):D

critter>>any suggstions?[/color:post_uid0]

[Critter]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, here a VRx Audison goes for about 20% more than a PG ti series of similar power. They are the Real Deal when it comes to SQ which is all I'm interested in (see my sig).

The Soundstreams are excellent without a doubt too, Xtant, Signat LABs, Butler Tube Drivers, there's a whole bunch of nice amps really and the US Amps are well-regarded but haven't heard one.

The Phase Linear sub I have never seen here and I've been around the biz for quite a while (over 20 years....) They used to sell hi-power domestic amps and then disappeared from Australia altogether with occasional re-emergences.

I am one person however from LOTS of experience who believes that the enclosure, its design, appropriateness and construction (especially) are far more important to a bass performance result than any particular drive unit.

My current bass system in the car uses a Kicker S12L72 ported to 30Hz and is an object lesson I think in this. Kicker holds the world record for SPL with L7s and also Mark Eldridge has the world record SQ score with S15L7s in his car.
Which is not to say the L7 is somehow the most fantastic woofer, rather that it if you use a good thing well....[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]mine is ported to 28 herz and i am a big fan of sealed enclosures because of the sq, however many might disagree with me :)

the reason i chose the aliante woofer is because of the small enclosure it needs.Not really because of the SPL because that's not their strongest point. If u can arrange to listen to one, please do and tell me what you think.i was staggered when i first heard one..they have the largest voice coili in the world(ina subwoofer) i have double trunk bottom 27 litres now, but it used to play in a 12 litres sealed encl and sounded like it was 2 12 inch JLW6's in a 70 litre enclosure, and then already playe from 19 herz basses at 100DB SPL

the PL arent popular in US either, but that's because of the ridiculous high prices(tax?)in europe they are very well known in SQ systems

check out

www.phase-linear.com


later dude...[/color:post_uid0]

[cooldragon]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]ps i just bought a nakamichi MB 100 headunit...good buy or not?[/color:post_uid0]

[Critter]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Naka HUs are definitely Good Things, but whether it is a Good Buy as well of course depends on the price... :)

As for Sealed = SQ, well sealed is easier to get right, but what is best depends on the driver. Either way, simple physics tell you that if you want ACOUSTIC POWER at very low frequencies you simply must access the output from the rear of the woofer. Output at low frequencies requires that you move a lot of air.

Real extension is rare in small enclosures and I'm glad the Phase Linear gives it to you (the Image Dynamics IDQv2's are quite good in this respect too) but if it's BALLS down low, a good port will never be beaten.

I can't think of a single decent home sub that is sealed at ANY price, all the best ones are ported.

In the finish, if you find something that gives you the result you are looking for, then you can't be happier than that regardless of whatever else is happening or what anybody else thinks.
There's people who would do their bass different than me and I'm kinda glad coz it's "my bass" and I love it!! :)[/color:post_uid0]

[Provo]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well cool...i think we all know what i'm going to say! So I wont ever bother saying it! :D Which i'm pretty sure that your all thank-ful for! Yeah Critter...is that the square kicker? Thats going to be my next sub...i LOVE THEM! Do you know if they come in dual 4ohm...i cant see any reason why not (would you know the price on it by any chance? Cause i'm aiming for the Alpine M500...and well...one needs a 2 ohm load for her![/color:post_uid0]

[Critter]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yeah it's a square dual 2 ohm for a 4 ohm load.
There is certainly a dual 4, I can get them for a good price if you pm me ie 2002 Titanium L7s which are "private" imports now. Custom car Sound is only bringing in L5s.
Mine is a 2001.[/color:post_uid0]

[Mr_Bob]

[color=#000080:post_uid0]i heard they were bringing the L7's in too.
when did you last check with CCS?
infact Daniel from SCR bought his in Oz.[/color:post_uid0]

[Critter]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Doran Pro Audio also brings in 2002 L7s, but CCS does not.[/color:post_uid0]