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skippy
02-12-2004, 04:04 PM
I have this thing under my bonnet a big noisy thing that makes my car go but it has no name and feels unloved.

when referring to the little info panels and the manual I am given about 5 different names/ref s (eg KL01C) none of them match.

I am having a fair bit of trouble finding stuff for the engine (headers, ignition cables etc) when I ask for anything to fit a V6 Astina, I usually get a quick puzzeled look and then ďnah they donít make themĒ.
I think this might be a bit easier if I can give them the engineís name or ref code.

I have been told it is on my rego papers but they were left at my mumís place and she has recently moved, she said she will find them for me if I really want her to but I doubt she will be able to she isnít a highly organised person and she doesnít recall seeing them.

So in short what is my engineís name?

96 BA V6 2.0L

Cosmo Dude
02-12-2004, 06:17 PM
It's a KF.
You can hug it and pet it and stroke it and I think I'd call it George :lol:

(someone grew up watching waaaaaaaay too much Loony Toons) :oops:
If they look in the book again they will find it.

ABC
03-12-2004, 12:28 PM
Its a KF.

I'm not too sure of the extra letters for the particular engine that is in our cars though (ie, -ZE, -DE, etc). I think the Eunos 500s have the KF-ZE in them as I think theirs is a more tuned up version. (don't know where I got that from so can't back it up but I've always thought that was the case).

KL = 2.5L (MX-6, 626, Probe, Telstar V6)
KF = 2.0L (AstinaV6, Eunos 500)
K8 = 1.8L (Eunos 30X)

There's some interesting info on the Mazda K series V6 engines here (http://www.rs-productions.com/RSP_Motors/tech/sae-920677/sae-920677.htm). Hope this helps.

skippy
03-12-2004, 03:54 PM
Champion good read,
would read more but finished work for the day hehehe and heading home.

One thing does confuse according to that the KL (2.5L) is smaller than the KF (2.0L) as in smalled in dimensions.

I have been told the KL is to large to fit in our engine bays so the manifold must be retained, but this seems to go aginst that.

Is it simply a different fit issue instead of a size issue?

Rupewrecht
04-12-2004, 01:59 PM
its the intake manifold that wont fit under the bonnet of the astina, as the engine dimensions are identical, from memory.

hardtops have a bit more space in regards to bonnet clearance than the hatch, but there's still not enough room.

also

KL-03 - the 2.5 as fitted in the MX6/probe (australian delivered)
KL-ZE - the 2.5 fitted to some Jap MX6 - with 200hp as standard

and the eunos 500 has the KF, not the KL :)

ABC
06-12-2004, 08:22 AM
and the eunos 500 has the KF, not the KL :)

That's what I said silly :P

Yeah, I'm also a bit confused about the outside dimensions of the KL but they do fit. Mr-MX6 in Perth has put a -ZE in his MX6 and then took the Australian KL-03 out of that and fit it into his Astina with no problems. Goes like the shower of sh!t apparently.
From what I've read, you basically have to swap over the inlet manifold (like Dan said as it won't fit under the bonnet) and the distributor if you're running on the Australian ECU and do something funky with the Air Flow Meter. But that's only for an imported -ZE. For a KL-03 out of a MX6, 626, Telstar it should go in without changing the distributor I think.

Rupewrecht
06-12-2004, 10:08 PM
and the eunos 500 has the KF, not the KL :)

That's what I said silly :P

whoops so you did. i swear i read it differently! :oops:

there's threads about MrMX6's conversion in here...might be in performance tho...

skippy
23-12-2004, 10:48 AM
Anyone got a list of what cars the KF engine came in worldwide?

Would be very helpful for sourcing/researching parts from OS,

Sort of like the one ABC did but only for the KF.

silver6
23-12-2004, 11:24 AM
Asian Market
Mazda MX6
Ford TX5
Mazda Eunos 500

European Market
Mazda Xedos 6
Mazda 323f

Rupewrecht
23-12-2004, 11:57 PM
a few amendments ;)

K8 - V6 piston engine/1.8 litre
Eunos 30X/Mazda MX3/Precidia/Presso/AZ-3 (one car..so many names!)

KF - V6 piston engine/2.0 litre
Mazda Astina/323F/Lantis Type R
Mazda Eunos 500/Xedos 6

KL - V6 piston engine/2.5 litre
Mazda MX6
Mazda 626/Capella/Cronos/Efini MS-6
Mazda Eunos 800/Xedos 9
Autozam Clef/Efini MS-8
Ford Probe
Ford Telstar/TX5

KJ-M - V6 piston engine (Miller cycle)/2.2 litre
Mazda Eunos 800M/800M SP/Xedos 9 Miller

boostedbatman
03-01-2005, 08:14 AM
Its a KF.

I'm not too sure of the extra letters for the particular engine that is in our cars though (ie, -ZE, -DE, etc). I think the Eunos 500s have the KF-ZE in them as I think theirs is a more tuned up version. (don't know where I got that from so can't back it up but I've always thought that was the case).

KL = 2.5L (MX-6, 626, Probe, Telstar V6)
KF = 2.0L (AstinaV6, Eunos 500)
K8 = 1.8L (Eunos 30X)

There's some interesting info on the Mazda K series V6 engines here (http://www.rs-productions.com/RSP_Motors/tech/sae-920677/sae-920677.htm). Hope this helps.
unsure what Mazda did but the Eunos 500 got 2kw less than the Aus astina
Must be down to someting like emission control
The ZE motor never made it to Australia in any form but there are some lucky examples in NZ

skippy
06-01-2005, 10:45 AM
Engine info

http://www.mazdaxedos6.com/english-main.htm

platypus
06-01-2005, 08:13 PM
mods - can you change the title and make this a sticky?

Rupewrecht
06-01-2005, 08:29 PM
mods - can you change the title and make this a sticky?

NO! :P

Mr MX6
28-01-2005, 09:59 PM
There is more than one K series motor it is true..
The main difference is not the peek HP but the torque..

There is a K8 ~ 140HP found in the eunos 30x (MX3)
KFZE ~160 that is the V6 2ltr found in the A spec (Australian) astina
KLDE ~165 HP found in the A spec ford probe and Telstar, MX6& 626.
And the top of the tree is the KLZE ~200HP found in the Jspec (Japanese) probe/tellstar/mx6/626.

The motors are physically virtually identical externally..
Only difference is the mounting holes for the half shaft..
The main external differences is in the intake..
I have successfully, and easily fitted a ZE & a DE under the hood of an Astana V6 hardtop..
The difference is in the ECU and the injectors..
The VIRS system has different actuation points for each motor (air intake system valves)
But as long as you use the injectors for the motor you have newly fitted you will have very little if any hiccups.

My latest member of the family is a KC Laser with a ZE in it.. not quite as simple a swap..

skippy
04-02-2005, 03:22 PM
I have successfully, and easily fitted a ZE & DE under the hood of an Astana V6 hardtop

Would that be KLís or KFís?

-BraXta-
06-02-2005, 12:16 AM
hmmm

so Mr MX6 you say that u have successfully, and easily fitted a ZE, DE under the hood of an Astana V6 hardtop.. and The difference is in the ECU and the injectors..

Hmmmm.... im very interested .... if you could rip out a 1.8ltr hardtop astina ... and drop that 2.5 jap spec sucka in....

Like....... ummm i want to do that... but i never really seen much talk bout it... only people mentioning it.. but i would love to actually do it =D

So what did you do... and yeh stuff like that =D

lol its late so sorry if this message makes no sense =P

boostedbatman
06-02-2005, 07:35 AM
hmmm

so Mr MX6 you say that u have successfully, and easily fitted a ZE, DE under the hood of an Astana V6 hardtop.. and The difference is in the ECU and the injectors..

Hmmmm.... im very interested .... if you could rip out a 1.8ltr hardtop astina ... and drop that 2.5 jap spec sucka in....

Like....... ummm i want to do that... but i never really seen much talk bout it... only people mentioning it.. but i would love to actually do it =D

So what did you do... and yeh stuff like that =D

lol its late so sorry if this message makes no sense =P
Taking ou a 1.8 and putting in a 2.5 is just asking for trouble 4-->6 cyl how fat can one mans wallet be
The swap is only plausable for those with the KF to go to the KL
The differenes between the DE and the ZE are as follows
1: flat top pistons in the ZE(compression ratio 10:1) as compared to the dished tops in the DE (compression ratio 9.2:1)
2: camshafts KL-31 (http://www.mapoc.org/File_System/Public/Fastest95PGT/Misc%20Probe%20Items/ZE%20IM%20to%2003%20IM%20Swap/IMG_0572.JPG) in ZE (max power @6500rpm) and KL-01 in DE (max power @6000rpm)
3: intake ports in ZE heads are square and are oval shaped in the DE (comparasin) (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/zevs03intakerunners.jpg)
4: Intake manifold in ZE has a long neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/pretty/loshio.jpg) or a curved neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/klze1.jpg) and larger internal dimeter to LHS merge (after VRIS) compared to the short neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/01DPA123195666I.jpg) on the DE
5: ECU is different between the two engines
6: And there are differences in the Airflow meter

Thats about all I can come up with for now so if thats not good enough then poo to you all.

Mr MX6
06-02-2005, 12:29 PM
The kf has a maf and the kl uses a vaf airflow meter..
The difference between the ze & ld is just in the calibration not the design .. Basically the KL36 ecu for the ze uses the same vaf as the mx3 (30x). but I think it is hardly worth the effort fitting the J-spec ecu

when I put the kl motor in to the astina I fully intended to use the kl ecu..
but it proved to be a bit much (as I would have to rewire every thing (they donít just swap/plug in) .
but like I said it works with the kf loom and ecu .. the extra fuel needed for the 2.5 is not controlled by the time the ecu keeps the injector open .. but by the size/flow rate of the injectors (open for the same interval).
the only problem is the virs. I used a stand alone window switch to control the system.. Actually tuned up a bit better than stock..

there is one other thing I forgot before. the intermediate drive shaft has a mount with 3 holes on the kl and only 2 on the kf..
you will require the mount from a kl (as it bolts on to the motor, I didnít know this until my swap was well underway , so I just temporally used the kf one.. you can do this but only one bolt lines up..

-BraXta-
06-02-2005, 07:48 PM
oh....lol..

well yes... i think ill just dream for now.. =D

hehehe maybe buy the V6 car later in the future... or just go for sumptin else =D

heheh

CRA23
07-02-2005, 11:28 AM
flat top pistons in the ZE(compression ratio 10:1) as compared to the dished tops in the DE (compression ratio 9.2:1

is this true for the Kf's? cos every where ive looked at specs for the Kf it all says it is 10:1, the in the specs on the amin paeg of this site says it is 10:1 an all the japanese sites with specs says theres are 10:1 too

boostedbatman
09-02-2005, 05:23 AM
Sorry Tim I was referring to the KL ( its the reason for the 40hp diff in the engines) compared to the 20 hp diff in the KF

boostedbatman
09-02-2005, 06:20 AM
Taking ou a 1.8 and putting in a 2.5 is just asking for trouble 4-->6 cyl how fat can one mans wallet be
The swap is only plausable for those with the KF to go to the KL
The differenes between the DE and the ZE are as follows
1: flat top pistons in the ZE(compression ratio 10:1) as compared to the dished tops in the DE (compression ratio 9.2:1)
2: camshafts KL-31 (http://www.mapoc.org/File_System/Public/Fastest95PGT/Misc%20Probe%20Items/ZE%20IM%20to%2003%20IM%20Swap/IMG_0572.JPG) in ZE (max power @6500rpm) and KL-01 in DE (max power @6000rpm)
3: intake ports in ZE heads are square and are oval shaped in the DE (comparasin) (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/zevs03intakerunners.jpg)
4: Intake manifold in ZE has a long neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/pretty/loshio.jpg) or a curved neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/klze1.jpg) and larger internal dimeter to LHS merge (after VRIS) compared to the short neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/01DPA123195666I.jpg) on the DE
5: ECU is different between the two engines
6: And there are differences in the Airflow meter

Thats about all I can come up with for now so if thats not good enough then poo to you all.

Updated with hyperlinks to pics

CRA23
09-02-2005, 03:01 PM
i just look on my owners manual(would have never thought of looking there to tell me this) and it says the KF has a comp ratio of 9.5:1 and it says the stroke is 69.6 not 69.9 as it says every where else on the internet...

tim

boostedbatman
10-02-2005, 04:56 AM
hmmm
funny that

skippy
12-02-2005, 12:44 PM
just wondering would we call our engine a V6 2.0l QOHC? QC?

Mr MX6
12-02-2005, 08:54 PM
It is a funny set up . .it could even be argued that it is not a true quod cam..
Iím sure you know one cam drives the other .. not like they are completely separate..
But if you ask me.. 4 metal sticks .. itís a quod cam..lol

I when asked about our motor refer to it as an All alloy 24 valve quad cam multy point fuel injected 2.5 V6 (or whatever) with VIRS (viable resonance intake system) ..
Quite a mouth full.. but accurate..

Cosmo Dude
14-02-2005, 07:31 PM
In Japan they have many icy roads so traction is important.
All jap-spec Eunos 500s come with LSD :eek:

Don't worry all good Mazda wreckers already know this :( but eh, it's their job.

boostedbatman
15-02-2005, 04:55 AM
In Japan they have many icy roads so traction is important.
All jap-spec Eunos 500s come with LSD :eek:

Don't worry all good Mazda wreckers already know this :( but eh, it's their job.
Also can be found in the JDM Lantis and the JDM Eunos 800 dont know what percentage had the LSD though, it was an optional extra for most of the cars

CRA23
15-02-2005, 10:45 PM
so these will fit in to our cars with no problems?? and what sort of lsds are they vicous or somehting else??

boostedbatman
16-02-2005, 05:07 AM
so these will fit in to our cars with no problems?? and what sort of lsds are they vicous or somehting else??
They will fi with no problems but I am still searching for more info on the type of LSD. As you would know with the v6 it can take countless hours on the net to find 10 seconds of useful info

CRA23
16-02-2005, 02:55 PM
i will go the mazda wreaker on the gold coast on the weekend while im up there and see if they have any more info and have any and i will get a price if they ca get them..

boostedbatman
17-02-2005, 04:21 AM
Supersweet

CRA23
17-02-2005, 09:00 PM
ive now been searching for the lsd now since i found out we could get one :) and these are the results i can up with...

the lantis's as an option came with a "screw refuse" lsd i have never heard of this type before. but i did a search on that and all i came up with is this

"The system which restricts the differential motion of the left and right driving wheel the screw refuse coupling (the multiple disc clutches) due to function, transmits power of the engine to the road surface without wastefulness. It improves takeoff characteristic and travelling stability"

and i also found out that some type r's came with a rear strut brace

wiredone
18-02-2005, 02:26 AM
Your forgetting that some 626's and mx6's (non lantis shape) came with the 2.0L FSDE the same as the 02 sp20 just with slight changes (igniton, ECU etc...)

skippy
22-02-2005, 12:43 PM
it as an All alloy 24 valve quad cam multy point fuel injected 2.5 V6 (or whatever) with VIRS (viable resonance intake system) ..
Quite a mouth full.. but accurate..


Hmm wonder if the leads I picked up on the weekend will be alright??

got some Splitfire leads made for me,
after I picked them up noticed they where specified as V6 24V 2.0L DOHC

boostedbatman
22-02-2005, 02:48 PM
Hmm wonder if the leads I picked up on the weekend will be alright??

got some Splitfire leads made for me,
after I picked them up noticed they where specified as V6 24V 2.0L DOHC
No problems they are correct its just some places only refer to the Cams per bank

v666
05-03-2005, 07:42 PM
Taking ou a 1.8 and putting in a 2.5 is just asking for trouble 4-->6 cyl how fat can one mans wallet be
The swap is only plausable for those with the KF to go to the KL
The differenes between the DE and the ZE are as follows
1: flat top pistons in the ZE(compression ratio 10:1) as compared to the dished tops in the DE (compression ratio 9.2:1)
2: camshafts KL-31 (http://www.mapoc.org/File_System/Public/Fastest95PGT/Misc%20Probe%20Items/ZE%20IM%20to%2003%20IM%20Swap/IMG_0572.JPG) in ZE (max power @6500rpm) and KL-01 in DE (max power @6000rpm)
3: intake ports in ZE heads are square and are oval shaped in the DE (comparasin) (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/zevs03intakerunners.jpg)
4: Intake manifold in ZE has a long neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/pretty/loshio.jpg) or a curved neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/klze1.jpg) and larger internal dimeter to LHS merge (after VRIS) compared to the short neck (http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/KLV6/01DPA123195666I.jpg) on the DE
5: ECU is different between the two engines
6: And there are differences in the Airflow meter

Thats about all I can come up with for now so if thats not good enough then poo to you all.


thats really interesting, does this show differences between fkde/kfze or does this only apply to kl engine?

boostedbatman
06-03-2005, 03:51 AM
The differences are the same with both th KF and KL engines just that the KL has a slightly different compression ratio. So you should be able to freely use the info in this thread to keep your demons happy

Mr MX6
11-03-2005, 02:30 AM
Hmm wonder if the leads I picked up on the weekend will be alright??

got some Splitfire leads made for me,
after I picked them up noticed they where specified as V6 24V 2.0L DOHC
the 2 ltr ones are shorter and go over the intake neck .. the 2.5 are longer and go around the left side to the back ..

skippy
11-03-2005, 12:05 PM
Certainly not much excess lead, fitted in well looks quite neat.

Although back centre lead plug is different, instead of coming striaght up (stock) it comes up and off at an angle. not a big prob but needs some carefull arranging so it doesn't rest oin anything that gets to hot.

No troubles since install (plugs at the same time),

troubl
16-03-2005, 10:35 AM
juzd my 2c worth ...
my '92 V6 626 hatch. has all six leads angled @90degrees! ;)

Astina GianT
01-04-2005, 12:01 PM
[QUOTE=boostedbatman]Taking out a 1.8 and putting in a 2.5 is just asking for trouble 4-->6 cyl how fat can one mans wallet be The swap is only plausable for those with the KF to go to the KL.

Sorry if this question sounds stupid, but why is the swap only plausable for those with the KF to go to the KL and not the 1.8L 4Cyl to the KL? What needs to be taken into account?

Cosmo Dude
01-04-2005, 12:29 PM
To put the V6 (either KF or KL) in place of the 1.8L 4Cyl you need engine, ECU, wiring, transmission, radiator, brake booster, engine mounts, exhaust, maybe modified drive shafts and other little bits 'n' pieces.
To swap the KF 2.0 litre V6 with the KL 2.5 litre V6 all you need is the engine.
It's not that it isn't possable but too expensive. It would be cheaper if you had a 1.8 to trade to a V6 then do the swap.

Oh yeah,
You'd also need to change the front springs and tacho, the list just goes on and on

skippy
01-04-2005, 03:09 PM
To swap the KF 2.0 litre V6 with the KL 2.5 litre V6 all you need is the engine.

Any a some sort of intake modification I am lead to believe.


Where any of the KL, KF or K8 engines ever super or turbo charged by mazda?

If so where and in what,

Cosmo Dude
01-04-2005, 03:29 PM
Only the KJ? 2.3 litre miller cycle form the Eunos 800M as far as I know.

When putting the KL in place of the KF you use the inlet manifold, AFM and distributor from the KF. That way you can use the KF ecu and you can close the hood.

skippy
01-04-2005, 04:17 PM
Close the hood n' all hey,


What does th KF ECU do the KL power out put?

Cause surely it thinks it is controlling a 2.0l engine

Cosmo Dude
01-04-2005, 04:45 PM
The KL ECU would need to be wired into the car while the KF is already there. The timing should be almost identical but with more air through the AFM the ECU will add more fuel to compensate when the O2 sensor cuts in the ECU will maintain the air/fuel ratio.
I know someone who did this to a Eunos 30X. K8 out KL in. Instant 60-70% power increase without any visual difference :D
I've only just thought about the crank angle sensor and harmonic balancer. The KF front housing may need to be swaped or the KL unit modified. They are probably identical but it would be the ideal time to investigate making the sensor somewhat adjustable.

Astina GianT
02-04-2005, 11:21 AM
To put the V6 (either KF or KL) in place of the 1.8L 4Cyl you need engine, ECU, wiring, transmission, radiator, brake booster, engine mounts, exhaust, maybe modified drive shafts and other little bits 'n' pieces.
To swap the KF 2.0 litre V6 with the KL 2.5 litre V6 all you need is the engine.
It's not that it isn't possable but too expensive. It would be cheaper if you had a 1.8 to trade to a V6 then do the swap.

Oh yeah,
You'd also need to change the front springs and tacho, the list just goes on and on

I've found a good 2.0Lt V6 @ $11500 175000Km Manual (non mods) and I recon I might be able to get between $9000 - $10000 (guess) for my 1.8L 4Cyl considering the extra bits and pieces that are non standard on the car + I would have to spend extra money on replacing the non standard items into the V6.
However do you recon it's worth trading up to a V6 to do the KL-DE or KL-ZE modification? Also keeping in mind the V6 version had other creature comforts the 4Cyl lacked. Or do you think it's better to just pick another engine like a bpt etc?
Essentially I was aiming for around 150Kw good torque and was hoping to increase to 200Kw with a bolt on turbo etc to a decent engine when I get more money, hence have a good engine to start with then do the mods etc?

boostedbatman
03-04-2005, 04:58 AM
Its a big decision to sell the 1.8 for the 2.0 v6 with the intention to boost.When looking towards a turbo or the like in the future the BPT is the simpler and cheaper way to go (you will need a front cut). The BPT already comes with the internals and compression suited to Forced Induction whilst the KF/L will need some attention to the choice of pistons/ rods/ ECU possibly Gearbox (if you have the F series). The big pain with internals is the lack of aftermarket support in Australia and you will find yourself shopping overseas with the rest of us. You can run some "mild" boost with the KF/KL-DE/03 but I for one am not a fan of boosting ANY engine without taking all the precautions necessary to ensure a long and happy life for you and your motor.

Astina GianT
03-04-2005, 10:47 AM
Its a big decision to sell the 1.8 for the 2.0 v6 with the intention to boost.When looking towards a turbo or the like in the future the BPT is the simpler and cheaper way to go (you will need a front cut). .

Sure the BPT is the simpler and cheaper way to go but realistically is the performance form a standard BPT front cut conversion that significant? correct me if I'm wrong but the conversions I read about only achieve around 110-120kw or so, not sure about torque figuers. This is ABOUT 7sec mark for a 0-100Km/hr or a 15sec for the 1/4mile not exactly exciting. I'm not trying to argue just trying to decide and justify and ultimately seeing if my expectations would be meet.

Just curious does anyone know what the figuers for a 0-100km/hr and 1/4mile times for a 323 BA11F1 Astina hatch with a KL-ZE conversion would be?

chicaboo
03-04-2005, 11:07 AM
I think Rupewrecht has 147kW/500Nm (147whp) and can put down a 14.3 1/4. You'd need to ask him what he's down to get those figures over the stock GTX. But there is a heep of guys down south with the BPT conversion in their cars running some decent figures, decent enough to tear shreads off their F series gearboxes too...

Astina GianT
03-04-2005, 11:22 AM
But there is a heep of guys down south with the BPT conversion in their cars running some decent figures, decent enough to tear shreads off their F series gearboxes too...

Thanks Chicaboo, you wouldn't know who some of these guys down south are by any chance, just need to do more research.

skippy
03-04-2005, 11:57 AM
Mr MX-6 Dropped a KL-ZE in a KC Laser,

He was doing something like 14.7

skippy
03-04-2005, 12:10 PM
Been thinking what would the big difference betwen a KF stroked to 2.5 and a KL?
You would of course have the absoulute mongrel of an engine.



Also isn't the KF compression ratio only around 8.5 or something?

chicaboo
03-04-2005, 12:13 PM
Astina GianT,

I think you have BigMal, Jynx, Sik Astina, Rupewrecht and maybe even Lazer The Amazer (due to his Lynx)?

You'll find previous posts in the forced induction area where there would be a number of posts by all of them regarding the BPT conversion, then you can send them a PM.

Cosmo Dude
03-04-2005, 12:21 PM
He has also put an Austrailian spec KL into his BA

Rupewrecht
03-04-2005, 03:16 PM
I think Rupewrecht has 147kW/500Nm (147whp) and can put down a 14.3 1/4. You'd need to ask him what he's down to get those figures over the stock GTX. But there is a heep of guys down south with the BPT conversion in their cars running some decent figures, decent enough to tear shreads off their F series gearboxes too...

really, the only difference of my engine VS a standard GTX engine is that it generates a hell of a lot more torque.

currently 137kw atw at the moment, and a 14.3 1/4 mile (as daily driven)

but thats the same as what you could get out of a stock GTX engine really - i'm limited by the stock turbo at the moment (as compared with my old turbo)

Astina GianT
05-04-2005, 07:11 AM
Rupewrecht, why did you decide to change your original setup where you had a T03/T04 hybrid highflowed ball bearing Garrett turbocharger - Custom manifold (HPC Coated) 194KW to what it is now @ 137Kw? And what is the handling of the car like then compared to know?

Cosmo Dude
05-04-2005, 07:33 AM
I've seen the dyno graphs and the gearbox internals and the police car that defected the old setup :D

Astina GianT
05-04-2005, 07:48 AM
Why did the copper defect the old setup? also 137kw out of stock GTX engine you sure?

Rupewrecht
05-04-2005, 03:11 PM
Victorian laws suck. to get the car engineered and therefore legal in vic, i had to go back to the standard turbo and manifold to pass emissions. if i'd kept the big turbo, i would have had to have a $3.5K emissions test...
But it got defected for too low, too loud, ecu, turbo, bov etc etc

the handling of the car is no different. but it's a lot more fun with the smaller turbo as a daily driver, as the power of the car is delivered a lot lower in the rev range - it's not all top-end as it was.

and 140kw atw is quite achievable from a relatively stock GTX engine - there's plenty of people on the boards making around that with standard GTX engines

Astina GianT
06-04-2005, 12:19 AM
Bumer Rupewrecht, now I know why you have the picture of the cop car in the driverside mirror! But it's interesting what you said about the car being alot more fun with the smaller turbo as a daily driver, as the power of the car is delivered a lot lower in the rev range, haven't thought about that. I am lead to believe that turbos tend to bring the power on in the mid to high rev range while supercharging in the low revs, with your situation why is there such a difference with the smaller turbo i.e. it being more responsive? how would you theoretically fix that problem with the bigger turbo scenerio? Programable ECU?

Astina GianT
06-04-2005, 12:59 AM
Let's play hypothetical here and everyone just have ago, let's pretend you had both 1.8L and 2.0L versions of the Mazda 323BA Astina 5dr Hatch's sitting in you garage. Your restricted to ~$10 000 and wanted to do a engine swap + further engine performance enhancements E.g bigger turbo, port & polishing maybe reconditioning depends on you, but must relate to engine performance, to ONE car only and further more you could only choose the KLZE(Jap Spec) engine for the 2.0L astina or the GTX for the 1.8L. Who of you would choose to mod the 1.8L or the 2.0L and WHY and what would you modify if you could?

Astina GianT
06-04-2005, 03:04 AM
I'm not sure if this is a stupid question so please bear with us, I read that the 2.5L KL-ZE engine only ever came in Automatic Transmission equipped models of the Eunos 800 (Mazda 626 & MX-6) - 1998+, Only in Japan. Also rare find but was also available on J-Spec, MX-6's with A Manual Transmission. So say if you could only find the engine from the auto transmission equiped models and wanted to put this engine into your manual transmission car would there be problems and how much would it cost you?

boostedbatman
06-04-2005, 09:04 AM
Astina GianT, you are a person with many Questions. I will try to answer some.
Its irrelevant as to whether the engine came out of an auto or manual equipped car as the mounting of the fly is where your box comes into play and both ATX and MTX will accomodate this. The choice of v6 or I4 comes down to what you wish to do and how far you want to take your modification process to go ($$$ dependant).
If you want an NA screamer you will find the v6 is the choice (not that boosting the V is out of the Q its just a lot more mucking around and custom work $$) There are a few turbo'd mx6s and Probes in the USA as well as SC versions but a lot of them have issues with the un availability of solid HLAs and springs/ valves dropping, there is however a lot of research going on in the probetalk site to combat this problem at present. There is also a lack of aftermarket support for these engines and most of the research is done by drivers who are playing the guinea pigs with their own engines in the Quest for the bulletproof engine at the risk of costing themselves a busted engine. And with the supply vs demand stakes over there they are putting up with excessive waits on parts as the suppliers are "mostly" working out of their garage. I am not telling you that the v6 is not an opyion for modifying nor am I claiming that its to be avoided but be aware that the v6 industry is still green. I for one know that Austrack Motorsports (who deal with Chev, Ford and Holden) built a replica VX Commodore using a RWD twin turbo'd KL v6 and managed to extract 595 kw on 1.9 bar. So the figures are possible as may not be the $$$ required.

Here is a list of parts published that they used:

Standard block with reinforced bores
Standard crankshaft (crack tested, ground and balanced)
Engine bearings throughout are ACL
Eagle H-beam rods (balanced)
forged JE pistons and matching rings (balanced)
Standard heads with extensive porting
Ferra oversized valves (remaining valvetrain custom designed by Austrack)
Custom grind camshafts (secret)
Custom fabricated Cam Gears
Twin Garret 340hp bb turbos flowing 1.9 bar (welded up wastegates
Custom fabricated 316 stainless exhaust manifold with equal length 1 7/8" primaries
3'' exhaust
Twin external 45mm Turbosmart wastegates with seperate dump
2x Plazaman air-air intercoolers (600mmx600mm cores)= extra pipework but less weight
Custom aluminium radiator which also cools the oil
Electric waterpump
Custom Intake Manifold using twin 65mm Throttle Bodies (inside 6 bell-mouthed trumpets feed air to the port matched heads)
Twin Turbomaster BOVs just before TB
Race Grade Silicone Hoses
Motec M800 ECU
Ignition= original mazda multi-coil
Twin Bosch 600hp Motorsport fuel pumps
6x 1400cc injectors
2x RRFPR

and thats about the limit of the engine

You can go ahead and guess what that one has cost to build
Remember that its no longer a transverse engine

And they managed to break 3 $45'000 boxes with that

Well thats the world of the v6

Rupewrecht
06-04-2005, 10:14 AM
Bumer Rupewrecht, now I know why you have the picture of the cop car in the driverside mirror! But it's interesting what you said about the car being alot more fun with the smaller turbo as a daily driver, as the power of the car is delivered a lot lower in the rev range, haven't thought about that. I am lead to believe that turbos tend to bring the power on in the mid to high rev range while supercharging in the low revs, with your situation why is there such a difference with the smaller turbo i.e. it being more responsive? how would you theoretically fix that problem with the bigger turbo scenerio? Programable ECU?

i have a programmable ecu that was used with both big and small turbo setups, and thats not a factor.

It's purely the size of the turbo. The bigger it is, the longer it takes to spool up. the GTX is (roughly) the size of my fist, whereas the T03/4 was about 3 times the size, and really designed for a much larger engine (3.0L+)

With the smaller size and shorter spoolup time, it means the power is delivered earlier. Big turbo takes more exhaust gasses spinning it before it starts to make power, hence why it come in later in the rev range.

but having said that, length and size of piping also plays a factor in power delivery

and while the GTX turbo spools quicker, it also runs out of puff at the top of the rev range. and the T03/4 wouldn't be making power until 3500->4000 rpm, but would pull very VERY strongly to 8000 rpm

1.8T vs V6NA: it'd depend what i'd bought. if i'd bought a V6, i would have gone the 2.5 KLZE NA route. presented with the choice, i'm not sure!

but as a daily drive i think i'd prefer the turbo, as it's not as highly stressed all the time, as the turbo is more of an on-demand type of power. and i love the sound of turbo flutter and a blow off valve. it's the ricer in me ;)

Astina GianT
06-04-2005, 10:54 PM
Thanks guys, this and other info I've got helps heaps, sure learning alot in a very short time, maybe I'll be able post my ride and mods on this site in the future.

skippy
07-04-2005, 10:46 AM
1400CC injectors FARK ME,



Maxda Planned a TT KL for the Mazda 6 but it never got off the ground I believe. I assume they went the four route.

Far as I know no K series 6 came turbo or super charged. Any one thinkg different?



Giant I have sent you a PM containng a Article re modifiing. I found it interesting

Cosmo Dude
07-04-2005, 11:28 AM
Far as I know no K series 6 came turbo or super charged. Any one thinkg different?
KJ is supercharged, It's part of the Miller cycle thingo

boostedbatman
07-04-2005, 06:46 PM
KJ is supercharged, It's part of the Miller cycle thingo
The KJ-ZEM is a beasty it came with around 163kw@5500rpm (give or take)

The Austrack engine now lives in an old school Gemini wagon and they have pumped it up to the magic ton 1000hp=746kw :eek: so who knows what weird **** they've now done to that. Its too scary to think about

platypus
07-04-2005, 07:52 PM
the GTX is (roughly) the size of my fist, whereas the T03/4 was about 3 times the size

and dan only has little hands too...

skippy
29-04-2005, 03:42 PM
Sixes
Mazda, though few people acknowledge it, also make a good selection of strong hi-performance six cylinder engines - and they're all compact size V6s.


The most scorching motor of the group is the KJ-ZEM - Mazda's exclusive Miller-Cycle engine. Displacing only 2.2 litres, this DOHC engine uses a screw-type supercharger and dual air-to-air intercoolers to boost its way to making an impressive 164kW at a laid-back 5500 rpm. It's an ultra smooth engine as well, as it was designed for use in the luxurious Eunos 800 saloon.

The second highest power output of Mazda's six cylinder range - at 149kW - is shared by the 3 litre DOHC JE-ZE, and the high-tuned 2.5 litre DOHC KL-ZE engine. These engines are configured to suit rear and front wheel drive respectively, however the KL-ZE is the more sports oriented engine, with its peak power achieved at 6500 rpm - 500 higher than the JE-ZE. The original JE series engine was released way back in early-mid '80s and used a conventional SOHC head and fuel injected intake system to develop up to 116kW at 5000 rpm - those fairly low peak power revs indicative of the poorer flowing head in comparison to the later DOHC versions. An engine released in various mid-sized cars such as the swoopy MX-6, the FWD J5-DE engine features a DOHC configuration on top of a 9.0:1 compression ratio, 2.5 litre block, and pushes out 211Nm at 3500 rpm with 119kW available at 6000 revs. It's not a hugely common motor, but it is very strong.


Another engine produced with the intention of powering a Eunos (the 500 compact saloon), the front wheel drive KF-ZE 2 litre double over head cam powerplant is good for up to 180Nm at 5500 and 119kW at 6500 revolutions per minute. Once again, smoothness was one of this engine's fortes since it came equipped to the luxo Eunos. The littlest V6 in the Mazda line-up is that fitted to the top-line Eunos 30X sports car. Displacing only 1.8 litres and using a 9.2:1 compression ratio, the K8-ZE engine offers excellent flexibility for its capacity category. It is also good for hitting out up to 157Nm at 4500 revs, and 108kW at a frantic 7000! 'Revy' is a good way to describe these unburstable little sixes.

nimrods86
30-09-2006, 02:53 PM
i'm new to this site an i must say it's ral kool seein so many people that feel the same way i do, that is, that mazda v6s' kick ass! i've only jus bought one an it's gonna stay.

anyone knows where i can get some kool ****e for it. e.g: kool lookin front lights, rear wings an such.

smalldave86
29-03-2007, 07:20 AM
hi i have the mazda 323f 1998 (not the new type) ZXi model....it says in all my documentation that it is the 2.0 V6 engine...but i checked the code on the rear of the cam cover and it says 'K8 1A1' which according to everything i have seen suggests this is the 1.8! can anyone enlighten me or can i go to the insurers and tell them to stuff there 2 litre insurance group? i live in the uk if that makes any difference?? cheers!!

Cosmo Dude
29-03-2007, 05:17 PM
Look in the owners manual for the location of the engine number, if it starts with KF then It will be a 2 litre. The heads are probably the same or very similar on the K8 and KF.

smalldave86
30-03-2007, 04:36 AM
found a stamping on the TB with KF33, so i guess it must be the 2ltr:) cheers, sorry for bein stupid lol

boostedbatman
01-04-2007, 05:55 AM
Its not being stupid
The KF uses K8 heads
K8 101 and K8 1A1
Mazda likes to be difficult

Aliano
21-12-2007, 01:14 PM
Hi,
I'm new to the Mazda engine swaps, I have just purchased an eunos 500
complete with cooked engine (2.0L) and have also purchased a 2.5 mx6
import engine from Rolin Imports of the KL variety, which should give it some get up and go. I have been asured by Rolins that it will fit straight in. If anyone can give me some info on taking the motor out eg: engine and tranny together, engine by itsself, from under the car or will it come out from the top? I have changed plenty of rear wheel drive car engines and done clutch's on front wheel drive cars but haven't done a complete engine change on one as yet, so any suggestions to make it easier would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Bob Luben
29-06-2012, 06:49 PM
Where in Sydney can I buy a set of Extractors and Turbo for a 1996 V6 2.0 L Astina.

phildough
29-06-2012, 07:39 PM
That will have to be custom made sorry. I haven't heard of any one turboing a V6 Astina in Australia.

Rupewrecht
29-06-2012, 08:15 PM
Did you see the replies in the thread you started?

http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19376