DRIVING TECHNIQUE

[nalawa]

Two quick questions for the gurus :)

1. Does anyone know of a good web site that discusses FWD driving techniques? Been looking since I bought the car without much luck. Having only eevr driven RWD cars I am interested if their are any major differences, especially emergency type stuff (eg skids)

2. Which font is used to make the ASTINAGT logo?

Cheers in advance

Chris

[chicaboo]

With a FWD, you can actually steer the car with the accelerator peddle to some degree. Generally if you accelrate into a corner and back off the throttle half way through, the car will throw the arse out. Getting back on the throttle quickly will get you back into a safe driving line. Depending on how much suspension work you've had done will change how severe this throttle-off oversteer action can be. I know it sounds scary, but you tend to be better off accelerating through the whole corner to hold a tight line... But if you are not used to this then just take it easy and drive safe, otherwise you'll be kissing the guardrail.
Because the 323's have a good torque curve, they can crab a little bit from a set of lights on a wet road if you are too sudden on the peddle (and it doesn't take much to do this either!). The car will generally pull to the left, but can at times slap to the right suddenly when you change gear or lift off the peddle suddenly. It all realy depends whats under your tyres at the time they lose grip. But beware this crabbing can be at times enough to drive you sideways into another car, so if you feel it happening ease off the throttle gently and you will be fine.
The only other thing I can think of this that you may have better engine braking because the front wheels are loaded up and shouldn't lockup like they could on a RWD.
Good luck, and have some happy and safe driving, if it feels dangerous, don't do it.
Gav.

[Rupewrecht]

2. Which font is used to make the ASTINAGT logo?

ask Mazda!

Xedos redrew it from a scan of the logo

[Cosmo Dude]

Without actually pushing your car to the limit you won't experience the magic of a FWD.
To do it somewhat safely games like Need for Speed Underground I and II are fantastic simulators.


You can handbrake and accelerate simultaneously in a FWD. It's insane :D :D :D Do it well and you will be rewarded.
On the flip side if you exceed the limits of your tyres with your engine you will know all about understeer. :?

[Mizda_Mazda]

Yeh, RWD and FWD are very different. I learnt to drive in my astina and when i got my skyline, i found braking and accelerating times where different, but with each car, your trying to push out (accelerate) just before the apex of the corner. Down shifting is easier in a FWD, as it doesn't throw the car into a oversteer/drift, and I also feel that braking/braking cornering is better in a FWD, but this could be that my astina has better suspension to my skyline :P, not to mention the weight.

But definately FWD and RWD are two different styles of driving.

Just take it easy, and it will come naturally to you. You'll feel your car complain if you drive it the wrong way.


If you start to understeer, back off on the throttle, and it should suddenly grip(becareful).

Keep the engine in gear when slowing down, and don't ride the clutch.

[Asterix]

Yeah, Chicaboo is right.
I like to think of FWDing as "Point & Shoot".
You can throttle into a corner & rip the foot off the accelerator & watch the arse kick out. Then (in the correct gear for your speed) you can aim the steering wheel & plant the gas again - Easy.
Hooning on grass in a FWD is my personal favourite & the best way to learn how your car handles. Collect some speed, gently pull up the handbrake until the rear wheels lock & then steer left & right. If things get messy, just release the handbrake & power out of the slide. With a bit of practice, you can throw some great angles for a long drift.
:D :D :D

[twilightprotege]

FWD drifting rocks!

[platypus]

asterix, its more fun in reverse!!!!


umm this may sound really daft, but pick up a copy of gran turismo 4 prolouge.. sure you can't practice all the things you did on the game but it actually goes through a lot of FWD driving techniques!!!

[nalawa]

Thanks Guys for the tips!

At my age (41) I have passed the need for speed (most of the time) and just enjoy getting the car to handle through nice twisty roads :twisted: Which is why next year (sometime) I will upgrade the shock, springs and sway bars. Have been reading a bit about power on/off understeer so thanks for the advice, always like to apex a corner right and drive out. Years of riding a motor cycle taught me all about position on the road and setting up for entry and exit to corners.

As for crabbing I have noticed that a little, especially on an uphill start in the wet. Get on the gas a little heavy and she starts to shudder and move. Very different from the 78 model Cressida!

I will have to have a look at Gran Turismo 4or NFSUGII! I've got a copy of NFS4PU which was always lots of fun. Who said computer games aren't educational?

Cheers again guys

Chris

[Red Frog]

let me tell you suspension makes a hell of a difference in a front wheel drive. i have an awesome rear swaybar on my car and, imo, great tyres. all put together + good reaction time, pulled me thru what could have been a nasty accident the other day. a swerve to the right followed instantly by a swerve to the left to miss a fuking nth shore mummy in her 4wd with major bullbar coming out of a driveway without looking. i was so proud how my car handled my quick reaction and i can confidently say the swaybar played a major part. i used to drive a rwd and occasionally still do from time to time and find it loves fishtailing, which the fwd doesn't seem to do. thou my car does seem to crab a bit. too much power i spose :twisted:

[chipa]

Just watch out as Need for Speed Underground II is damn addictive. :D I just cracked it last night and I reckon my xbox needs a rest!

[lamby1986]

as for FWD driving techniques, you could always try left foot braking...

You can handbrake and accelerate simultaneously in a FWD. It's insane Do it well and you will be rewarded.

the concept is simple enough, just hard to master. use your left foot to brake lightly while using your right foot to punch the accelerator. the idea is that in a tight corner, or uphill, or both, a FWD car will want to understeer out of the corner unless taken at slower speeds. this is due to the weight transfering to the rear wheels, not the front where the traction is needed. To make the car turn faster you have to cancel the weight transfer effects by using the accelerator and brake in combination.

very hard to master this, due to the natural left foot dendancy to punch the clutch, when you try to make it use the brake 'lightly' it plain doesn't want to. first time i tried braking with my left foot in a straight line (just checking out the possibility), locked up the wheels :roll: i've never even done that in an emergency situation with my right foot :lol: Im better at it, but i still corner faster under normal cornering that with the left foot braking technique.

as for NFSU and NFSU2, finished the first one 6 times, and up to 60% on my second run through number 2. absolutely awesome, although there are better 'simulators' out there, its the entire package that makes the games.[/url]

[lamby1986]

for further reading on LFB:

http://www.rallyracingnews.com/lfb.html

[Rupewrecht]

as for FWD driving techniques, you could always try left foot braking...

...which is also good for spooling up a turbo that's laggy ;)

[Astro Boy]

ok... i forget who said it BUT... if your using your gearbox to brake to the point ANYWHERE NEAR locking wheels (are your not running a dogbox)... you are going to do serious damage to your gears... gears are only designed to take pressure in one direction... simple.. gears are for going... brakes are for stopping

yes left foot braking is a fantastic thing, i used it all the time (i have my reasons :wink:), but having said that i'm yet to find anything on the internet that explains it properly.. and it certainly isn't confined to FWD... Greg Murphy ONLY brakes with his left foot... don't also think that its entirely necessary... in rally where its regarded as a neccesity.. there are guys at the top (Dean Herridge) who don't use it... even in a FWD car, on bitumen its next to useless... on a track, with a car with very hard suspension, yes it becomes neccessary cause lift off (throttle) oversteer has very little effect...

on the dirt, in my FWD rally car, i do more steering with my left foot than the wheel... that's a fact, all the wheel does it turn the car in, but in order to mantain throttle i use the brake to control where the nose of the car points.. that way the front wheels can point straight ahead and be ready to take power application... in a fwd car your asking the fronts to both take power, and turn the car... they inheritently understeer, regardless of what your doing with the brake.....

a fwd car responds better to trail braking too... maintaining loading over the front wheels whilst corner assists in putting power down on exit... also, with a fwd car if you lock the wheels, then get off the brake, the wheels start turing alot sooning that with a RWD car.. so dont be afraid to brake late and take a risk.. (speaking of which... my buzzbox rally car, running good tyres, lucas pads, and standard brakes, pulls more braking g's than a V8 supercar 1.15g vs 1.05g... just ask nate about the headaches i gave him :P )

also... in FWD cars that don't have an lsd.. sometimes disconnecting the front sway bar will improve handling because it won't try to lift the inside wheel up as much.. (my car doesn't have a front sway bar, and don't try arguing about how it handles over glorious)... this doesn't matter in a RWD car... but in a FWD car, loss of grip, means it sends all the power to that wheel.. meaning you lose drive on the one that's doing the turning.... also, in order to put power down properly you need to have the front wheels facing near enough to straight..

yes on dirt, a FWD car will be able to put power down ALOT sooner than a RWD car.. but on bitumen that isn't always the case... if your tyres are already at the limit of adhesion during cornering, and you try putting drive through them aswell, it doesn't work... try it in the wet.. go round a big corner (with plenty of space), then try putting full power down.. the wheels spin and you car goes straigh ahead.... and that lfb website was only refering to dirt technique, and it did a good job.. but had nothing to do with driving a car on the black stuff...

anyways... its getting late, so i'm off..

[Cosmo Dude]

For most people FWD and RWD need no difference in driving style.
I like the RWD when circuit racing and FWD for Motorkhana, it's only when I'm really tossing the car 'round that it makes a significant difference otherwise I'll adjust accordingly.
If you want to learn the best way is through doing and a good way is through armature motor sport. It's off the road in a safe and well organised environment.

[platypus]

CAMS pretesting courses will teach you a lot...

and my high recommendation is in the method of double declutching, and heel and toeing... this won't make you a better driver, but will improve times, while keeping the power on

[Astro Boy]

this won't make you a better driver

it will in the wet.. :wink:

[platypus]

this won't make you a better driver

it will in the wet.. :wink:

good point my friend

[chipa]

and my high recommendation is in the method of double declutching, and heel and toeing...

I couldn't agree more... I've been heel & toeing for so long I do it constantly. Even when I don't need too. It's only a tiny fraction more wear on your clutch, but it's heaps cheaper than fixing your gearbox. It also keeps your driving smoother and therefore faster....

[SFC01]

Left foot braking has advantages on track in that coast time is lost time. The time taken lifting off the throttle to depress the brake pedal could in theory be taken faster if left foot braking. Only talking minute amounts of time, but that is racing isn't it?

Also you should with skill be better able to balance a car on the traction limit left foot braking.

Some don't left foot brake because they aren't comfortable modulating a brake with the left foot, need to use a clutch with their left foot, or in the case of Rubens Barichello's driving style there were time and durability considerations which made it less advantageous.

Also in the days in F1 where exhausts exited in the underfloor tunnels there was in some cases a significant downforce advantage in keeping exhaust flow up while cornering - requiring left foot braking against the throttle!

[platypus]

and my high recommendation is in the method of double declutching, and heel and toeing...

I couldn't agree more... I've been heel & toeing for so long I do it constantly. Even when I don't need too. It's only a tiny fraction more wear on your clutch, but it's heaps cheaper than fixing your gearbox. It also keeps your driving smoother and therefore faster....

naa its less wear as the wheels and th eengine are spinning at close to the same speed when you heel and toe, then again if you double declutch (esp on downshifts - like me) you will dramatically lengthen the life of a clutch

[SFC01]

Or you can just delete using the clutch and if you are bad you wear your synchros. But you won't wear your clutch any...

Had a drive in a dog box equipped car weekend before last. Holy Guacamole! Shifting speeds like you wouldn't believe!

[Astro Boy]

naa its less wear as the wheels and th eengine are spinning at close to the same speed when you heel and toe, then again if you double declutch (esp on downshifts - like me) you will dramatically lengthen the life of a clutch

explain to me how those two methods are different?

[Red Frog]

boub,

you'll have to show me what the heck you're talking about with this double declutching thingy. i'm confused as to what you do as to what i do when driving. i heel and toe rite? :?
argh :roll:

[platypus]

naa its less wear as the wheels and th eengine are spinning at close to the same speed when you heel and toe, then again if you double declutch (esp on downshifts - like me) you will dramatically lengthen the life of a clutch

explain to me how those two methods are different?
because most people when heel and toeing just pull the gear up, rather than shifteing to neutral first

[SFC01]

In a synchro box what advantage is there in double declutching heel and toe vs heel and toe while shifting? Other than working out the left leg?

You will be reducing the work of the synchros for sure, but with no load in neutral how hard are they working to make the shift? You will also be doubling the work of the clutch in accelerating/decelerating the input shaft.
Granted if the rev matching is schmick then you aren't relying on friction to speed or slow the engine/car - which is infinately better than not trying to rev match.

[platypus]

Granted if the rev matching is schmick then you aren't relying on friction to speed or slow the engine/car - which is infinately better than not trying to rev match.
you just answered your own question

[Cloudland]

subscribe. :oops:

[SFC01]

If you are rev matching you are rev matching. What is the advantage in double de-clutching? I don't think that I did answer my own question, at least "I" don't think that I answered my own question.

[Astro Boy]

double declutching heel and toe vs heel and toe

i'm gonna ask this again... for those that aren't novacastrian street racers... what the difference between these two? :roll:

[Astro Boy]

because most people when heel and toeing just pull the gear up, rather than shifteing to neutral first

my bad.. i've just figuired what the fark you guys are on about...

OMG!!!!!! Thanks james for pointing that out... my god, some ppl have been playing far too much playstation...

In a synchro box what advantage is there in double declutching heel and toe vs heel and toe while shifting? Other than working out the left leg?

would someone like to explain why you heal and toe.. because it certainly isn't to match revs between clutch plates... lets go back to basics children... the whole point of heal and toeing is to match revs between the output and input shaft of a gear box, so that the gears (ok.. the shaft links if we want to get technical :wink: ) pop together in the shortest possible time with the least effort...

if your not double clutching, then that means that your clutch is disconnected whilst you blib the throttle... translation: you aint doing sh!t... how are you going to match revs to a gearbox that isn't connected... there's no such things as this double declutching heal and toe, and heal and toe bs...

IF YOUR HEAL AND TOEING... YOUR DOUBLE CLUTCHING :evil:

now.... put the controller down, and visit this website:

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/howsyncro.htm

pay special attention to the last line :wink:

[lamby1986]

ok, i read the link. and that just confirmed what i already know about double clutching. right foot on accelerator and left foot working the clutch. where's the heel and toe in that?

i always thought that the heel and toe was having the right foot spread across (or if u have special pedals ie like in some v8s) both brake and accelerator at the same time.

so is the "optimum" idea to use both methods at once to slow down for corners?

[Rupewrecht]

i always thought that the heel and toe was having the right foot spread across (or if u have special pedals ie like in some v8s) both brake and accelerator at the same time.

correct!

[SFC01]

if your not double clutching, then that means that your clutch is disconnected whilst you blib the throttle... translation: you aint doing sh!t... how are you going to match revs to a gearbox that isn't connected... there's no such things as this double declutching heal and toe, and heal and toe bs...


You are accelerating the engine speed so there isn't a jerk through the drivetrain. If you are downshifting anywhere near the limit of adhesion (in a RWD especially) you don't want this sensation or you will snatch the rears and be facing the wrong direction pretty fast.

The fastest downshifts that you are going to get in your car is a properly matched *clutchless* shift. Significantly faster than you can pop the clutch in and out once, and definately twice... :twisted:

Heel and toe only really relates to the simultaneous use of the brake and the accelerator pedals.

[Astro Boy]

lamby1986.. yes... you simultaneously use the ball of your foot on the brake, and the heel on the accelerator.... whilst using your left foot to clutch...

SFC01.... mate... your still missing the point... YOU DON'T USE YOUR GEARS TO SLOW DOWN IN RACE CONDITIONS... SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE LIMIT OF ADHETION THORUGH THE DRIVETRAIN...

it doesn't matter how quick or slow your downchange is because gears are used to accelerate, heal and toeing is BY FAR the quickest (and most balanced) way to drive any car that doesn't have a dogbox....

honestly.. if you think that you can single clutch a downshift in a helical box when racing quicker than you can pop a doubled clutched heal and toe.. then you seriously have a lot to learn about driving :roll:

[platypus]

less wear, and also better performance in downshifts

[Silencer]

ladies ladies ladies, i have an idea. go to a track and race one another using ur own driving styles and see who wins. well in a perfect world where each car was exactly the same it would work anyway. thank god this isnt a perfect word. unless all the cars where BA 323f's

[Nate]

IF YOUR HEAL AND TOEING... YOUR DOUBLE CLUTCHING


and just to confuse things ... you can double clutch without heal and toeing :P

[SFC01]

SFC01.... mate... your still missing the point... YOU DON'T USE YOUR GEARS TO SLOW DOWN IN RACE CONDITIONS... SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE LIMIT OF ADHETION THORUGH THE DRIVETRAIN...

honestly.. if you think that you can single clutch a downshift in a helical box when racing quicker than you can pop a doubled clutched heal and toe.. then you seriously have a lot to learn about driving :roll:

Mate,

If you aren't near the limit of adhesion when you are decelerating in race conditions you shouldn't be out there full stop.

If you snatch a gear or are not smooth whilst downshifting and braking you will lose time at least, and maybe control of the car. The very last thing that you want to do in this situation is fire a destabilizing shock through the drivetrain - which is why ANY rev matching technique is better than none. I never mentioned anything about using the gears to slow down the car did I? :roll:

Helical vs straightcut gearboxes doesn't make a lick of difference to anything other than noise levels and gear strength. Nothing at all to do with shifting gears.

On a personal note I don't use the clutch on downshifts when I am driving fast. I left foot brake as well. I can't for the life of me double shuffle, but I'm ok with that.

I also think that every person on this forum has a lot to learn about driving (including me) which is why most of us contribute to a forum. Certainly not to obtain the sensation that one is being brow beaten.

[wazza]

As long as you separate on road driving technique from off road/race driving technique as the two are very very different.

oh, and the sooner Car manufacturers like Ford, Holden, Mazda and Mitsi realise this, the sooner we can start reducing road rage and reckless driving accidents

[Astro Boy]

Helical vs straightcut gearboxes doesn't make a lick of difference to anything other than noise levels and gear strength. Nothing at all to do with shifting gears.

its comments like that that loose you any respect i may have had :roll:

and don't talk to me about limits of adhesion, and keeping a car settled... i spend more time driving a car on dirt at speed than most ppl spend driving a car normally... :wink: when was the last time you where flying through a forest on dirt at 160km/hr... cause i can recall exactly when i was...

second heat, rally qld... after ss12 was shut down, and i still had the orange forest pass, just past where the spectator point was... 100m into a hairpin :P

The noise factor is a by product of how the gears mesh... they didn't design helical gearboxes purely to fix this... they desinged them for ease of engagment and noise, neither of which matter in a race car... and if your seriously trying to tell me that there's no difference between how a straight cut and helical box change, then i'm gonna shut up and let you keep living in la la land because its blindingly apparent that you haven't driven one....

you can't even put together a post that has the one argument... paragraph two you ramble on about jolts through the drivetrain being a cold day in hell... yet in the forth you say you don't even use a clutch when downshifting at speed :roll: :roll: :roll:

i too left foot brake... but i do it to unsettle a car in order to turn... and if you can't do it, then why are you so sure that a single clutch downshift is better than heal and toe???

i too have heaps to learn about driving, it wasn't that long ago i knew nothing... its when ppl pretent they know what they don't.. that's wot gets to me.. i'm more than happy to share what i know, and even happier to listen to what other say... but with comments like "dog boxes don't shift differently" its really hard to beleive a word you say :wink:

[Cosmo Dude]

ok... i know where you taking this.. and yes.. to that point.. your right... gear selction is a matter of matting gear to shaft... i tried to keep it simple by saying gear to gear.. yes i know that's not technically how it happens

The noise factor is a by product of how the gears mesh... they didn't design helical gearboxes purely to fix this... they desinged them for ease of engagment and noise, neither of which matter in a race car...
A little consistency goes a long way in a debate.

Am I a superstar driver? No, I believe I can put my car where it needs to be given most circumstances. I don't heal-toe because I don't have the range of movement in my ankle or hip and I don't double clutch cos I drive road cars whose gearboxes have syncros.
Am I an engineer? No not by a long shot but I'll read a book or two in order to understand what I'm changing or modifying.
Am I a rally racer? No but there are other forms of motor sport in which I participate. On the road I am a driver off the road and I become a competitor.
I've been relatively silent on this off-topic discussion as it started with the fairies and staid there.

[Astro Boy]

ok... i know where you taking this.. and yes.. to that point.. your right... gear selction is a matter of matting gear to shaft... i tried to keep it simple by saying gear to gear.. yes i know that's not technically how it happens

The noise factor is a by product of how the gears mesh... they didn't design helical gearboxes purely to fix this... they desinged them for ease of engagment and noise, neither of which matter in a race car...
A little consistency goes a long way in a debate.

wtf?

so wots wrong with that.. considering they're talking about two completely different topics :roll: one's talking about how gears engage, the other is talking about why straight cut gears make lots of noise when they turn.....

[Cosmo Dude]

Read it again clown boy

[chicaboo]

Let's change the name of this forum to www.msprotege.com ....

[Nate]

Read it again clown boy

ease up cosmo ... he has a point

[Astro Boy]

Read it again clown boy

i did champion... one quite clearly states how gears are always connected, and they mate shaft to gear (but since not too many ppl realise this, i kept it simple by saying gear to gear)....

the other quit clearly states that helical gearboxes, back in the day, were desinged to enagage gears easy, since back then cars were unrefined anyway and noise didn't mattter.... that fact that they're quiter is through development of helical gears, they haven't always been this way...

both completely different topics.. neither condradictary... :P

[wazza]

the topic of being quieter doesn't really apply if you have a Rade anyway - the little f'ers sound like a dump truck so the gears could be angle cut - you still wouldn't hear the change

:D :D

[Astro Boy]

which is really funny given the fact that i bought the car off a lady who had a BMW before that.. and reckon it was smoother, and more refined... yes.. the older G10x charade were clunky buckets of sh!t, but from G200 onwards they were a very nice car to drive....

having said that, yes, by the time you remove carpet, interior, stone chip all the under car sound proofing, removed the wheel arch plastic, install a high lob cam, shat the resisnator, and shortened the induction, she ain't the quietest beast... :P

[wazza]

[quote="Bourne Boy"]which is really funny given the fact that i bought the car off a lady who had a BMW before that.. and reckon it was smoother, and more refined...

LOLO, thanks, she went from a Beamer to a Rade - that is awesome.

As for removing all the gear, remove the drivetrain, the engine, the body and put anything else in the same airspace !

Cheers BB, you always make me smile 8)

[SFC01]

Deary me, where do I start...


Helical vs straightcut gearboxes doesn't make a lick of difference to anything other than noise levels and gear strength. Nothing at all to do with shifting gears.

Its comments like that that loose you any respect i may have had :roll:

How in the name of christ does the cutting of gears which are in constant mesh have anything at all to do with the mating of a gear face to one of the shafts in the gear box via a selector ring? If you can technically and cohesively debate that point with me then please do.

and don't talk to me about limits of adhesion, and keeping a car settled... i spend more time driving a car on dirt at speed than most ppl spend driving a car normally... :wink: when was the last time you where flying through a forest on dirt at 160km/hr... cause i can recall exactly when i was...

Can't recall ever trying to establish a driving technique for rallying in the thread, sorry about that. I thought that it was initiated by someone wanting tips for road driving. You are quite right in your surmisation in that I can't recall the last time that I was flying through a forest on dirt at 160km/h. I am still yet to get my Nimbus Two Thousand broomstick working properly.



The noise factor is a by product of how the gears mesh... Yep agree with you there...

if your seriously trying to tell me that there's no difference between how a straight cut and helical box change, then i'm gonna shut up and let you keep living in la la land because its blindingly apparent that you haven't driven one.... That is exactly what I am trying to say. Now if you had qualified your arguement and spoke about synchro vs dog engagement then you would have come across better. They are planets apart, their respective theories of operation say so. But I am glad to say that I have experienced both so I feel well able to make my point without fear of recrimination.


i too left foot brake... but i do it to unsettle a car in order to turn... and if you can't do it, then why are you so sure that a single clutch downshift is better than heal and toe??? Can't say that I made the claim that I can or cannot unsettle a car in order to turn. Are you sure that your crystal ball is working properly??

i too have heaps to learn about driving, it wasn't that long ago i knew nothing... its when ppl pretent they know what they don't.. that's wot gets to me.. i'm more than happy to share what i know, and even happier to listen to what other say... but with comments like "dog boxes don't shift differently" its really hard to beleive a word you say :wink: I agree wholeheartedly with you. If I said that 'dog boxes don't shift differently' then you could feel properly justified in flaming me down. Shame I didn't say it though.

Stick to the forests mate :wink:

[Astro Boy]

:lol:

[chicaboo]

FFS! Are you lot finished with the pissing contest and jabs of whiticism??? I don't think after any of that BS anyone that didn't know before, is any closer to knowing the exact execution of these methods now, I know I'm not.

Here's my uneducated stab at some descriptions:

Heal and Toe - Ball of foot on break pedal while heal blips throttle (Used for downshifts while breaking to match revs to next gear).
I believe the average person using heal and toe for hillstarts in a manual is sufficiently different to have nothing to do with the racing term...

Double Clutching - Clutch in, select nuetral, clutch out, match revs to next gear, clutch in, select gear, clutch out (used for accellerating and engine braking? Isn't this for old cars with no syncromesh?).

Left-foot breaking - I assume the gear is just ripped out of position after backing off the throttle then given enough revs to engage the next gear under breaking? (Used without the aid of a clutch? See crashboxing).

Dogbox - WTF is a dogbox?

Straight cut gears - noisy, stronger, used without synchro's?

Crashboxing - Is this where you up/downshift without using the clutch?

Personally, I don't see how any of these methods can really be used in everyday street driving. I only double clutched in my old Subaru so it wouldn't crunch gears because the synchro's were worn...
I hope you all understand what I mean about the difference between a hillstart heal and toe versus the racing method. I don't have the ankle flexibility to drive with a propper heal and toe method in anycase unfortunately...

Cheers,
Gav.

[platypus]

its all practice mate, i'm 6'4" and i manage it ok

[chicaboo]

Yeah I haven't driven a manual for ages, and the other day when I was moving my stuff I was driving a 1 tonne LWB diesel van and found I had to double clutch to engage a gear sometimes. If I poosay footed around too much it absolutely wouldn't let me select a gear...



I didn't know vans could spin the wheels in 3rd gear. :wink:

[wazza]

Neither did the cop that was behind you but he took a photo just to remind you later

[chicaboo]

Neither did the cop that was behind you but he took a photo just to remind you laterIf he's really nice I'll autograph it for him! 8)

[driver101]

sounds pretty good to me gav :P

only thing, a dogbox is a gearbox that uses straight cut gears.... and dog rings, instead of synchros to engage the gears :wink:

[Cosmo Dude]

Bourne boy,
Your arguements are not consistant and you are very quick to put others down who don't agree with you 100%
That's all I have to say on this thread.

[lamby1986]

Left-foot breaking - I assume the gear is just ripped out of position after backing off the throttle then given enough revs to engage the next gear under breaking? (Used without the aid of a clutch? See crashboxing).

My understanding of LFB is to settle the car during a corner, as the braking action stops and/or adds the weight shifting off the front wheels, giving better traction and the car corners at a higher speed. but it is only used in the corner. you slow down for the corner like any other, get the gear and entry speed you want, turn in and then go LFB.

Like previously stated [by Rupe i think] it also enables you to keep the boost on as the right foot is free to hold the throttle open.

[chicaboo]

Left-foot breaking - I assume the gear is just ripped out of position after backing off the throttle then given enough revs to engage the next gear under breaking? (Used without the aid of a clutch? See crashboxing).

My understanding of LFB is to settle the car during a corner, as the braking action stops and/or adds the weight shifting off the front wheels, giving better traction and the car corners at a higher speed. but it is only used in the corner. you slow down for the corner like any other, get the gear and entry speed you want, turn in and then go LFB.

Like previously stated [by Rupe i think] it also enables you to keep the boost on as the right foot is free to hold the throttle open.
I think that's called "Trail braking", when I used to watch the Ralliart Mirage and Daewoo one-make series' they used to mention trail braking, and it sounds like what your describing there. I think the idea of that is to throw the arse out a bit to take a wide then narrow corner?

Trail Braking - Brake on approach to corner, release brake and then turn, apply brake again to oversteer, then apply accellerator to drive out of corner?

OK, how does that sound? Left-foot braking as I was describing earlier was more the Greg Murphy and John Bowe style for downshifting while maintaining the revs and braking at the same time...

[lamby1986]

multiple terms for a few techniques :lol: