To turbo or not to turbo, that is the question... - V6 na, v6 turbo or gtx turbo?!?

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Hey guys, I've noticed that some of you have transplanted GTX motors into your astina's and this has got me thinking... Is this an easy conversion? i.e. do you need new engine mounts & customise everything?
I'm debating what i should do with my ride. Either i can stick with the standard motor (2L V6 DOHC) and work it up N/A. Or if it would be worth turbo'n the bastard!! OR doing an engine transplant from a GTX...
Any info on your experiances with turbo's in astina's/lantis's would be great, plus any tips on what works and what doesn't!!


Also an interesting car for sale here in NZ...

http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketp....ows=500 (http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=2002778&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27mazda%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27LA NTIS%27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=70&PageNo=1&chkRows=500)[/color:post_uid0]

[Toyboy]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][b:post_uid0]Quote from link[/b:post_uid0]
2000cc Engine - Lowered suspension,manual,power steering,Power Windows,Air Conditioning,Awesome mags,stereo,double overhead cam.,Turbo,Fuel Injected,Aero side skirts,racing steering wheel,V6 engine

[b:post_uid0]Awesome Mags[/b:post_uid0] What tha :O *The v6 models came standard with those wheels,dont class them as awesome in my books,who are they trying to kid :laugh:[/color:post_uid0]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]Yeah, I wasn't too sure what they were thinking?! ???

Awsome mags = 19" Chrome Multi-spoke :cool:[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]I would follow his lead and turbo your motor instead on
dropping in the GTX motor. Would be a better low down
performer. Many probe/mx6 sites to get info about doing
it. As for the GTX conversion its great. 2years plus and
still smiling.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]BigMal: My engine isn't exactly a great example of the KF-ZE! Its done quite a lot of k's and smokes a little so i was going to replace the engine in about a year's time if i dont blow it up sooner! Has anyone actually turbo'd a V6 lantis on this forum?
I like the idea of a GTX motor in my car, it would make my car RAELLY rare in NZ...
When you did your conversion what did you have to change? Did you keep your standard gearbox? Did you need new engine mounts? I've seen the pics of it, but there isn't a write up on how you did it all.[/color:post_uid0]

[Sandyman]

[color=#FF0000:post_uid0]2000cc huh? and it's a turbo? the standard v6 was 1996cc, why go turbo from a 4, when u coulda just had the 6 cyl fromt he start?

don't think anyone here has put a turbo on a 6, but if you stuffed around enough, u might find someone...
and there's always the 2.5 litre from the mx6 (i think it's from there. it's supposedly the same size as the 2L. ask someone who knows what they did.[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]The mechanical side of the install is easy from BP to BPT
almost everything bolts to the BPT eg engine mounts.
However you want to go from 6 to 4 so thats a totally
different story. The gearbox will need to be changed and
whether that means you need to replace the support bar
that the gearbox mounts bolt to I don't know. If your
engine is stuffed one of the kits from the US which includes
pistons, rings, turbo, manifold etc would be perfect as you
would end up with a reco motor.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]Yeah, I've seen some of the kits from the US but they are about $5000USD!!! Then when i add shipping and then labour when it gets here i'm looking at $15000NZD... *:(
If i scavange parts from wreckers and custom make them to fit the V6 lantis it would be waaay cheaper! (more like $5000NZD I reckon) Then its just the matter of squeezing a turbo into my already packed engine bay!! lol.. Then i have to work out how much power i can get out of the standard block and pistons. I probably wont be able to go higher then 7-8psi of boost without major modifications to the block :angry:
I wonder how many kw's can you get out of the standard 2L V6 motor?
I've emailed the dealer selling that turbo V6 lantis to see if he'll send me some pics of the engine bay so i can get an idea of how the setup was put together...[/color:post_uid0]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]Take a look at the engine in this turbo'd V6 lantis for sale in NZ...

http://www.tedtracey.co.nz/cars/021684.jpg

Not too clear, but you can see a hell of a lot of piping going all over the place!!! lol[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]I will do some searching as I was sure I saw kits for the
piston, rings and using an eclipse TD04 turbo for way less
than that. Was a while ago but will look.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[IZG-00D]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="Sandyman"]2000cc huh? and it's a turbo? the standard v6 was 1996cc[/quote:post_uid0]
1996cc is 2L engine...
same goes with 1.8, it's not spot on 1800cc.

best thing to do is like what mal said, just put a turbo kit on the standard engine. not many ppl in this forum (actual, no one in this forum has done it except for EZZY before he got the GTX (now on rupes))... problem is, its gonna cost ALOT of money.
get something different...[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]It doesn't have to cost the earth. Careful selection of parts
and a little bit of sacrifice and you can do it cheaper. I
could have spent a couple of grand on a turbo or I could buy
a GTX motor for $900. Take from that that I am then using
a 2nd hand stock turbo. So if none of us have had problems
with 2nd hand turbos why not buy a RB25 BB turbo for $500
and bolt that to the V6. Why does it need to be a $2k turbo.
Get a kit for the pistons, rings etc to reco the motor and drop
the compression and then add the RB25 you should be able to
do for about 6K. Pipework, both intake and exhaust will be the
biggest problem for you.
Maybe consider a blower off a 2lt 1J-GZE as a simpler option.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[IZG-00D]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]getting all those internal part in the end will cost alot... same thing. buying cheap parts will result to cheap engine and poorer reliability.
BTW, if i didnt make sense on this message, just ignore it as i'm fully sik...[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]Just to clarify that I didn't mean use 2nd hand parts for the
internals just for stuff like turbo and intercooler etc. Like I
said every GTX conversion is 2nd hand stuff so just buying
a turbo is nothing different. Remember that for the 4cyl
conversion you will need a 4cyl gearbox and crossmember
and shafts and new clutch, maybe new slave cylinder and
hyd lines, shifter etc. Take that most people are spending
4-7K for conversions and then add another say 2k for the
other parts thats a lot of money that you could spend
rebuilding and turbo-ing you V6

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid14]Its good to talk to someone who knows what they are on about, thanks. From what you've said about putting a GTX motor into my car, it would be much more worth while turbo'n the V6 (maybe even supercharging the bastard)
I'm just gonna keep my eye out for parts now, what sort of turbo do you recon would be good for a V6? Before i get a turbo i'll need to get a decent exhaust. What is the best sorta thing to do? I'm thinking 2.5" piping, 2 resonators, a sports muffler and a 4/5" tip... Don't want it too loud, but if my car is going FI it will need to breathe!
Are there any aftermarket headers that will fit the V6 engine, or would the stock ones do the job? I was told by a mechanic that they've stopped making aftermarket ones for the V6 Lantis/Astina in New Zealand now...
If i can i would like to do an engine rebuild myself. Is this really hard? How much will everything cost ?(pistonrings/gaskets/pipes and so on...)[/color:post_uid14]

[Rupewrecht]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]OR you could drop in the 3.0L V6 from the Mazda MPV...anf then work that for an NA beast...

as it's just a stroker of the 2.0L Kl series V6 anyway...

i suspect that you'd run into the problem of the inlet runners being too high and not letting the bonnet closed (as you would with the 2.5 from the MX6) but you could always put a mild bulge on the bonnet...[/color:post_uid0]

[BigBoyLemonade]

[color=#006666:post_uid0]Since I have been told its possible although I am still doubtful get a KLZE 150kw 2.5 V6 out of a jap spec mx6..

get and good exhaust system and air filter made up and that would have a fair bit of poke..

but I have never ever seen this in an astina engine bay.. but supposely ppl on this board believe its possible[/color:post_uid0]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="rupewrecht"]i suspect that you'd run into the problem of the inlet runners being too high and not letting the bonnet closed (as you would with the 2.5 from the MX6) but you could always put a mild bulge on the bonnet...[/quote:post_uid0]
I like your style! *:;):

Or I could just make a hole in the bonnet and have a 3L beast poking out! hehe

Thinking about it... 3L + standard gearbox = 1000k before i need a new box!! LOL

Just out of interest, how many Hp's does the 3L have? I know that the 2L has about 160hp and the 2.5 has about 200hp... So going on the trend here it must be about 240hp??[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]I am not up to date on my KL motors so am not so sure on
this. Are the blocks the same throughout the series and its
the crank rods that are different between 2.0L and 2.5L.
If so have a search in the states for a piston, rings and
gasket kit for a 2.5L. If there is a market in the states for
stuff ie car is sold there then the prices are generally cheaper
than what you can get local for pistons. Check out the
mx6/probe sites for prices. I would say something like a
RB25 or VG-30 ball bearing turbo would suit or maybe a
T3/T4 if you can find.

Rebuilding a motor is not hard. Hardest thing is checking
the clearences are right using pastiguage etc. Need a good
torque wrench and an engine stand. If you are confident
go ahead.

Do some searching and tell me what you find.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[Rupewrecht]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]well, i've been told by some guys on the MX6 boards, that it the external dimensions of the KL blocks are still the same. it's only the inlet runners that create the space problem under the bonnet.

the 2,5 has about 170hp, while it's only the jap-spec 2.5 which has 200hp. the 3.0 also has 200hp, but i would imagine that it's tuned more for torqu when it's in a people mover, and i'd think that more power would be able to be extracted from a larger displacement. but don't take this as gospel :)

anyone that does the transplant, seems to do the 2.5 standard to 2.5 Japspec engines (KL-03 to KL-ZE) rather than put in the 3.0 from the MPV, so i'm unsure which is the better option as a base for NA modding. i'll ask them and see...[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]I was actually alluding to stroking the motor not replace it.
I had heard the blocks were the same but am not sure if
it can be done. With the 2.5 being a more common tweaked
motor I am guessing the parts are cheaper than buying 2.0L
stuff so stroking it may work out being the same overall if
not cheaper. Stroking would also mean the intake would
fit as it wouldn't change. Not owning a V6 I have never
looked into this so its all plucked out of my arse guestimates.
Maybe looking at what the MX3 2.0L guys are doing would be
best.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[Rupewrecht]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]ah good point. don't see why not - i was jst thinking engine transplants :)

oh, and ignore the 3.0L option - i was unreliably informed it seems! the 3.0 is a ford duratec engine... :(

and the MX3/Eunos 30X was a 1.8 :)[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]Weren't they both 1.8 and 2.0L V6's. Sure the guys in the
US they are 2.0L's.

Always stand corrected anyway. But you got my point.

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[Rupewrecht]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]dunno! i just assumed the US got the 1.8 as well...

and yeah - eventually got there - takes a while to penetrate my thick skull :;):[/color:post_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]At least your grey stuff is not pickled and suffering from
seratonin deficiencies.

Theres no hope for me, may as well keep on doing it now.

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

[Sandyman]

[color=#FF0000:post_uid0]is anyone going to bloody do the 2.5L, or are we just talking about it hoping that somebody will so that the astina will make a WRX look bad?[/color:post_uid0]

[LantisV6 NZ]

[color=#000F22:post_uid0]I'd would really consider putting a 2.5L in my car. It would be cheaper then FI in the long run probably but I have no clue where to source one in NZ...
The 2.5L is in the MX6/626/Probe right?[/color:post_uid0]