2.5l v6 conversions.... - Anyone done one? [Archive]

MrShadow

08-04-2003, 09:32 PM

[color=#810541:post_uid0]If, ahh, anybody wants to lend me some currency, I'll give it a go, and you can tell how it went by the size of the smile (or frown) on my face...please...anybody?? :;):

Nah, but it has been discussed in another Performance topic, search through some of the old posts, it wasn't that long ago.[/color:post_uid0]

.::Astina|Brad::.

09-04-2003, 01:39 AM

[color=#728FCE:post_uid0]Who would you go to to find out about the conversion? Are there people who specialise in this sorta thing?[/color:post_uid0]

BigBoyLemonade

09-04-2003, 01:52 AM

[color=#006666:post_uid0]Hey one thing I wanna know does a V6 gearbox fit on a 1.8? cause if there is slightly more power than maybe it is worth getting a v6 box?[/color:post_uid0]

Rupewrecht

09-04-2003, 02:12 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]From what i've heard, it's quite a possible swap, and the external dimensions of the K8 & KL are the same, but the intake runners (on top of the engine) on the KL are a lot larger so you'd probably run into problems trying to close the bonnet!

And most performance workshops should be able to handle the conversion. It doesn't [i:post_uid0]seem[/i:post_uid0] like a complicated one - the only real issues would be wiring...but don't quote me on that :;):[/color:post_uid0]

ABC

09-04-2003, 03:15 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]From some of the stuff that I've read, aparently the V6s basically use the same wiring for all the different engine sizes 1.8L, 2L and 2.5L and essentially its just the same as doing a swap for the same type of engine, everything just fits in the same spot. But there's bound to be small differences here and there.
From looking at the two engines sitting on the floor apparently you have to look pretty hard to tell them apart.

Don't know about the gearboxes Tony but would be happy for you to check out my car for a comparison.[/color:post_uid0]

jeroentje.nl

09-04-2003, 05:27 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]All the gear boxes from the V6 serie will fit.

What you need is a 2.5 KL-ZE engine this give about 200Hp
You need a 2.5 VAF and a 2.5 ECU. (fuel consumption)

End this year I will start my swap.[/color:post_uid0]

KittyKatSmack

09-04-2003, 06:49 AM

[color=#736AFF:post_uid1]Do you want to know what's really sad?

I have just heard that you can make the 2.5L V6 fit into a Mazda Metro......
without too much wrangling!

I double dare ya!

:;):

That would be one seriously f@#king scary car........

"Please pass me my brown undies!"[/color:post_uid1]

KittyKatSmack

09-04-2003, 06:50 AM

[color=#736AFF:post_uid3]Considering that no one has figured out how to make it stop or handle........

:O[/color:post_uid3]

Aaron

09-04-2003, 11:00 PM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Ahhh cool - here's what Ive heard about the swap...

Basically the blocks interchange fully, the key differences being int he internal design of the block to suit the changes in capacity (and crankshafts/pistons ofcourse.)

Use the 2.0 or 1.8L intake manifolds as they're a lower profile than the taller 2.5L units. They don't restrict flow moreso they just move the power around.

As already mentioned use ALL the electronics and sensors from the 2.5L donor car/engine, this means Air Flow sensor, etc etc .. However sundry items like cooling fan controllers can be interchanged.

Use the 2.5L ECU to ensure you get good mapping, although apparently the 1.8 and 2.0L units work sufficiently well with the 2.5 according to some people. Yes they're plug in swaps. My suspicion is that the 1.8L and 2.0L ECU would be constantly running near their operational parameter limits though, so the 2.5L ECU is a good deal.

Points to note include: The 2.5L is a very tough motor and not really looked at in Australia for mods, int he USA though it was fitted to more cars and generally there is a sh!tload of performance bits for them.

It's a mere 25% increase in displacement, and at that shoudl be quite insurance company and rego authority friendly. It's an easily engeered swap as it's the same physical size and pretty much the same weight as the 2.0L apparently.

The big bassy thrum of the 2.5 at WOT into a nice set of headers, and witha good CAI should make the car extremely sexy ;)

A.[/color:post_uid0]

.::Astina|Brad::.

10-04-2003, 12:30 AM

[color=#728FCE:post_uid0]I seriously want to have this happen!!!!!!!!!!
anyone know of any performance places in sydney that mite be able to do this??? would they find all the 2.5 litre parts for me>???

would the power be alot more than the 2 litre V6???

what's WOT???[/color:post_uid0]

Rupewrecht

10-04-2003, 12:38 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]well, if you got the Jap-spec 2.5 KLZE, they've got about 150kw as standard, over the 100kw (or thereabouts) of the 2.0. But i've heard they're getting harder to find.

what you want to source is a half cut or front cut of a JapSpec MX6that has the KLZE - that way you'll get the engine/gearbox/ECU/any wiring you'll need

WOT is Wide Open Throttle

And whoever you get to do the conversion should be able to source one for you. Just go and talk to a few performance mechanics and go with the one you're most comfortable with[/color:post_uid0]

.::Astina|Brad::.

10-04-2003, 12:48 AM

[color=#728FCE:post_uid0]Any idea of how much this would cost and how long it would take to do? would i have to get some sort of engeneering done???[/color:post_uid0]

ABC

10-04-2003, 01:01 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]A guy on MX6.com just got one delivered to his door for $2200.
MX6 KLZE Transplant (http://www.mx6.com/boardnew/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57420)
Kinda keen myself just need to raise the cash. :([/color:post_uid0]

KittyKatSmack

10-04-2003, 02:18 AM

[color=#736AFF:post_uid2]And so it begins.......

Next... the 2.5L Turbo version.....

:O :cool:[/color:post_uid2]

Rupewrecht

10-04-2003, 02:25 AM

[quote:post_uid0="KittyKatSmack"][color=#000000:post_uid0]Next... *the 2.5L Turbo version.....[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]It's already been done!

Oh hang on, no that was a twin turbo 2.0 V6 i'm thinking of from new zealand :cool:[/color:post_uid0]

.::Astina|Brad::.

10-04-2003, 02:43 AM

[quote:post_uid0="rupewrecht"][color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0="KittyKatSmack"]Next... *the 2.5L Turbo version.....[/quote:post_uid0]
It's already been done!

Oh hang on, no that was a twin turbo 2.0 V6 i'm thinking of from new zealand :cool:[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#728FCE:post_uid0]TWIN TURBO 2.0 Ltr!!!!!! that's sweet!!! how did he/she fit the thing in there!?!?!?!

Is this person on this forum??? or any links to this ride?

I wouldn't mind the 2.5 ltr conversion + a supercharger :D[/color:post_uid0]

Rupewrecht

10-04-2003, 02:58 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]the owner wasn't on the boards here. All we ever saw were the 'For Sale' Ads on the web...[/color:post_uid0]

Aaron

10-04-2003, 04:28 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I can't remember the codes - but when I had my last Mazda i remember coming across a couple of the 2.0 v6 turbo motors in importers yards....

I'm sure the hardware could be fitted to the 2.5L ;)

Ofcourse this has now got me keen to find a good straight and tidy Hardtop with a shagged v6 and go nuts....

Then again it's been a back of mind project since first reading of the conversions in MX-3 (Eunos 30X's) some years ago..

It's not a new thing - just not common here due to the high price of the v6 cars, and the ease of doing the turbo conversion into a 1.8L instead. At the end of the day the lower entry price for the 1.8L makes it a desirable swapper... but now as they get towards the 10 year old mark ;)

A.[/color:post_uid0]

MrShadow

10-04-2003, 08:45 AM

[color=#810541:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]I have just heard that you can make the 2.5L V6 fit into a Mazda Metro......
without too much wrangling!

I double dare ya!

That would be one seriously f@#king scary car........

"Please pass me my brown undies!"
[/quote:post_uid0]

Kitty, that aint scary, what's really [b:post_uid0]f@#ken[/b:post_uid0] scary is the european owner who somehow jammed a v8 into an original mini...

Let's just say there wasn't ANY spare space under the bonnet...[/color:post_uid0]

LOW 626

10-04-2003, 09:38 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Like said before the 2.5 will fit you will just need to use the 2.0 intake manifold or better still the millenia manifold. For syd guys i know a shop in smithfield that can get the motors for around $1700(no ecu) and charge $1000 for an install all up its a 10 hr job as everything "bolts up" you can source a mx6 ecu from an aussie one as the two ecus are exactly the same appart from the VRIS activation points, no biggie.

Im actuall saving for this swap, cant wait, plus since my motor is still running i should get it cheaper.[/color:post_uid0]

.::Astina|Brad::.

10-04-2003, 10:51 AM

[color=#728FCE:post_uid0]LOW 626... what engine does the 626 have???

when you said it fits and everything "bolts Up'' and it'll take 10 hours... was this for both the 626 and astina?

When are you aiming to do this?[/color:post_uid0]

LOW 626

10-04-2003, 09:51 PM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]The 626 has the same 2.5L as the jap mx6 but only has 121kw compared the the 150kw of the jap mx6.

The jap engine is a KLZE where as the Aussie 626/tx5/mx6 are running a KL03

The extra power the KLZE make is form a higher compression different intake, and better cams.

The 10 hour swap is for a mx6 or 626 but i cant imagine the swap taking much longer for a astina if your homework is done properly.

Im planning to do the swap as soon as my bank account lets me, but seeing as insurance and rego are comming up it looks like it wont be for a while :angry:[/color:post_uid0]

BigBoyLemonade

11-04-2003, 12:11 AM

[color=#006666:post_uid0]I think on a different level to everyone but why dont you rebuild your exisiting engine and run an autronic computer, forged pistons, rings, some nice cams, polished and ported head, tuned length extractors and get a supercharger from the states...

for about 10k you would have a monster with the same engine just everything would be brand new[/color:post_uid0]

BigMal

11-04-2003, 01:05 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid1]I don't know 150kw for about $3000 sounds like a good deal.
Tony I think the answer to your question is the same as why
you didn't rebuild your 1.8 with Forgies etc instead of buying
the GTX motor. 10k is out of reach of a lot of people but
3-5K is a lot more reachable.

Low 626,
Wont you need to swap the gearbox as well. Do you know
how much the box's cost as I would like to investigate putting
the internals into my 4cyl box as they cant handle the BPT's
power too well. Bit of Trivia do you know anything about the
626 AWD with the FE3 motors ???

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

BigBoyLemonade

11-04-2003, 01:17 AM

[color=#006666:post_uid0]My reasoning for that is you probably could rebuild the existing engine for about 5k with programable managament... and have a brand new engine without the hassle of engineering and the car can be tuned and probably have more power... for 10k you could get a capa supercharger...

why didnt I do that because I didnt have 10k

My conversion was only cost 5k[/color:post_uid0]

Aaron

11-04-2003, 03:24 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]150kw minimum without having to dick around with programmable management, being able to use off the shelf parts and not have to worry about apadting the rest of the vehicle systems around the ECU suddenly tip the scales way back towards the factory motor.

Sure there's more power to be had by fully working the exisiting motor, but considering they're not that common around the world in 2.0L guise, the 2.5L (even in regular 626 form) is a much easier proposition to start with.

I've done the do-up-uncommon motor in Australia thing and let me tell you it bites, sure it's nice to have something unique but at the end of the day I got very very sick of people saying "Why don't you get a real car" etc etc

In actual bang for buck terms the best conversion is the BPTurbo, the 2.5L is a more unique swap that could be done for under $15K including sourcing the car to put it in... So in pure $$ terms it's pretty close....

A.[/color:post_uid0]

BigBoyLemonade

11-04-2003, 04:21 AM

[color=#006666:post_uid0]Oh yeah my post about doing the 2.5L V6 up was for low626 with his existing engine.. no offence to 2.l v6 engine but there isnt much point[/color:post_uid0]

BigMal

11-04-2003, 06:03 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid1]Hope you didn't take offense either Tony.
I still think that if you could get away with it for $3k
against a rebuilt motor for $5k think most of us would
still cheap out with the $3k option. If you blow that
up then worry about adding all the good bits.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

LOW 626

11-04-2003, 09:20 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Lantis: supercharger or turbo kit for the v6 are a no go, they can be done but not for less than 15k unless you can do most of the work your self, the battery needs to be put into the boot to make room and seeing as there are no kit availabe its all custom work.

Also most jap motors only have like 60k on them so they are practically new anyway, newer than mine which is reaching the 200k mark.

Another point is the engineering it is easy as its physically the same engine(for the 626/mx6) anyway and i wouldnt even bother telling the rta a swap was done.(yes i know ppl that havent bothered so this isnt just hot air)

BigMal: the v6 swap should only be done in the astina that came out with the v6 already in it, it can be put into the 4 but like you said the gearboxes are different and so is all the wiring and ecu's which would make it a pain.

Yes i have heard about the 4wd fe3 but i dont think it was my shape it came out in, i think it was the one before, and im pretty sure it was only available as a wagon...

Onle last point is that the klze make 150kw in stock form, add extractors, exhaust, bigger throttle body and a custom chip and it should easlily be making another 15kw, thats 165kw in a ity bity mazda 323 with no turbo lag and over 230 nm of torque availabe from very low in the rev range, this makes this swap a very tastie alternative to the bp setup at practicall half the price!, but then again some ppl just like the ppppssssshhhtttttttttt[/color:post_uid0]

BigBoyLemonade

11-04-2003, 08:29 PM

[color=#006666:post_uid0]Bigmal: Nah didnt take offense... just needed to clear up what I acutally meant

I have grease and oil and clutch fibres embedded in my skin which has made me not talk straight...

low626: I can tell you from experience it will cost more than they say... you will have to replace timing belts, engines from japan are weathered and when you are working with them the bolts snap and ****ty stuff like that... Just make sure you get a written quote from them... I have seen to many get jipped...

If you dont have to tell the rta but if you have an accident and the police/insurance see the wrong engine number they will rape your arse.... so if someone hits you and they find out its your fault...

and your last point... with extractors and chip you would spend about 5k in the end with that option so why not get a new engine that would have more power and programmable management without the rta hassles and insurance would never know... *???

I wish now I had my car as a NA screamer... 9000rpm, highcompression pistons, nice lumpy cams, and programmable management with tuned extractors it would have been a lot less hassle... I could have been almost as quick...

oh yeah one thing about the ity bity 323... we would just wind up the boost and wave at you as we pass you by... I dont have lag how about you Bigmal?

Sorry I dont mean to argue just wanna clear my point up since I didnt explain myself...[/color:post_uid0]

Edited By Lantis on 1050057339

LOW 626

14-04-2003, 10:04 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Lantis: i know i could cost more than they say but his is an actual price acustomer paid, ok it moght be a bit more for a 323 but i dont think too much more.

Not telling the rta would be stupid, ive seen this conversion done in the 1.8L 30x and he had no problems so the 2.0L should pass too.

Oh yeah and the thing about the ity bity 323, i wasnt dissin' your car man, i actually like the 323, all i meant was that its small, and therfore light, so a 165kw na engine in such a small car would scream, sure if i had a 323 and some spare cash lying around id go the turbo option too but this conversion does seem too be cheaper and a bit different and i like originality.

Oh and your point about arguing, dont worry man, im actually enjoying this discussion, some very good info is being presented here in a civilised manner and im glad it hasnt turned into a turbo vs cc fight, i think we should all give ourselves a pat on the back :D[/color:post_uid0]

BigBoyLemonade

14-04-2003, 10:09 AM

[color=#006666:post_uid0]I know man! I wasnt offended... I was teasing you! *:p

nah I get in arguements with ppl on boards... and it just ends up me saying stupid ****...[/color:post_uid0]

Edited By Lantis on 1050279015

ABC

14-04-2003, 11:06 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]We couldn't have that now Tony could we. :;):[/color:post_uid0]

pr1mo

16-04-2003, 12:08 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid0]found this article.here (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1594/article.html)

noones thrown round the idea of the eunos 800 conversion.....yet.....[/color:post_uid0]

BigMal

16-04-2003, 09:05 PM

[color=#000000:post_uid1]I have ages ago. The miller Cycle engine would be
sweet !! Only thing is I don't believe you can up
the boost at all and no other performance bits.
An exhaust and intake could be done but not aware
of anything else. Other problem is they only came
auto !! Lazy rich people who don't want to change gears.
Sheez !!

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

MrShadow

17-04-2003, 11:08 AM

[color=#810541:post_uid0]Talking 'bout Eunos 800 conversions, superchagers and all this ****, I've got a mate who used to work at Mazda and he has a supercharger from a Eunos 800 sitting around at home...pity it's for the v6 :angry:[/color:post_uid0]

Sandyman

18-04-2003, 06:32 PM

[color=#FF0000:post_uid0]so it would go on the 2L in the astina?

i've noticed that it looks as though dan is getting larger cylinders for hs rebuild, and could you not do that with the v6? like instead of getting a conversion done just giving it bigger cylinders? it might work, seeing as the 2.5 litre had the bigger cylinders and stuff, but the same overall size. any comments?[/color:post_uid0]

BigMal

19-04-2003, 09:53 AM

[color=#000000:post_uid1]It is possible to bore out the 2L but once you start adding
things like crank, manifold, injectors etc all to suit the 2.5L
then it becomes less econical than the existing 2.5L Motor.
Same as putting in the GTX motor is cheaper than doing up
you existing N/A. Thats why everyone who has gone turbo
has gone GTX motor. Different story for someone like Critter
unless he wants do go down in capacity and that the engine
mounting points etc have stayed the same between a BP
and the 2L he runs. But unless you really get serious and
take a tape measure and spanner to stuff ,a lot of Mazda
interchangability is all unknown.

Regards

Mal[/color:post_uid1]

Chronos

24-04-2003, 12:50 PM

Hi guys,

I'm really keen on doing the KL-ZE swap in my astina... like, REALLY keen

I just want to know, what do i need? here is what i can think of at the moment:

Engine (duh)
Gearbox (manual)
Clutch (can someone confirm?)
Computer
Brakes (apparently i need new front discs and new rear pads otherwise it is illegal? can someone confirm?)
Do i need any exhaust mods or air filter?

Anything else guys? Cant wait to have a 150kw astina :)

BigBoyLemonade

24-04-2003, 01:53 PM

Depends on what gearbox you use... if you are using your standard 2L V6 gearbox you wont need a new clutch but I would recommend getting one cause it will save you money at a later date because you wont need to replace it sooner.... but if it all good or you have had it replaced recently than there would be no need

Chronos

24-04-2003, 02:15 PM

hmmm.... if the engine is going to be out anyway, i may aswell do the clutch right? get a nice tuff one...

Osprey06

30-04-2003, 01:49 AM

Next... *the 2.5L Turbo version.....
It's already been done!

Oh hang on, no that was a twin turbo 2.0 V6 i'm thinking of from new zealand :cool:

I used to have a link which had some yanks who'd put 2.5V6s in their BG 323s and then added the twin turbo system from a nissan 300zx (presumably modified). One of these cars was also bored out to 2.7 litres.
Not suprisingly they claimed an easy 400hp...

The 800m swap idea has just been raised on fordlaser.com
I hope the guy goes thru with it..hehe - It's still my pipedream...mmmm 2.3 supercharged turbocharged fwd V6 323.....

Also Mal, dunno if you got that info on the FE3 but....
I did a bit of searching a while back.

Some people say, compared to a bpt/d, they're not worth it coz they're cast iron and too heavy etc.

Others say they're stronger than a bpt and came in other markets factory turbo. Further, some rally teams claimed to be running 15psi on a non-turbo (ie higher compression ratio) FE3 with the FE3 turbo gear fitted.
There was an article on autospeed.com which was a south african BF 323 ute. This had an FE3 from a 626, along with turbo + no + a local opel 6 speed fwd box (apparently they got some nice old school opel kadets...even seeing upto 160kw(!!!). The guy was talking 400hp for the ute, iirc

ciao
James

Osprey06

30-04-2003, 02:05 AM

w000....their link is up again (goes up and down like a yoyo...)

see http://members.rogers.com/a_spec/projects.html for some insane 323s.... :shock: :shock:

also

http://autospeed.com/A_0844/cms/article.html

check this post on the 1gen mx6 boards for info on the fe3...

http://www.mx6.com/boardnew/showthread.php?s=cde6c0522b0bd4a0291f9fc531c3bacf&threadid=58099

also, I seem to remember something about FE3's still being used in Kias....(good source maybe??)

James