ABOUT: FSE Boost Valves/Malpassi Fuel Pressure regulators

[Maz323f]

Hi All

Has anyone installed and FSE boost valve on a 1.8 16V 94-98 Astina? If so are they worth it?

Cheers
CraigC

[Toyboy]

Yeah i have,and it has made an improvent to mine :P It makes it more responsive,just dont expect it to be a huge gain :wink:

[BigMal]

Personally I can think of a lot more better things to
spend the money on than an adjustable FPR on a N/A.
Would only do it after you have added every other mod
to the car

Regards

Mal

[Toyboy]

I agree with Mal,
If i were you Maz323f i would get a freeflowing exhaust,and sports airfilter(ie K&N) before fitting a FSE valve :P
As i had done everything else previously before i fitted the FSE valve,fitting it first without the above mentioned mods wouldnt reap as much gain as with the other mods :wink:

[MrShadow]

WTF is a FSE Boost Valve?

[Toyboy]

Its an Adjustable Fuel Pressure regulator,which replaces the pissy little stock 1 on the fuel rail,with 1 that you can adjust the fuel presure with :P
Which allows for a higher fuel pressure to take out most factory flatspots,it practically adds more fuel(makes it richer)thus making it more responsive :wink:
There are some downsides to this aswell but,having it turned up to far can be fatal to the standard fuel pump & Injectors :shock:
Its the risk to take when you want more power but :twisted:

Here is a pic of 1
http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/13511/p/298736_1497361576242444976_vl.jpg

[Rupewrecht]

i've got one. I got in when my car was still NA, as it was something i could carry over to the turbo conversion. All i had at the time was a K&N/CAI setup and even with only that i could notice the difference.

Is it worthwhile? i'd say yes. Even though i don't actually need it at the moment as the injector duty is nowhere near maxxed out.

[Dogo]

i've got one on my v6, installed after CAI.
I noticed an impressive difference in power. And it eats fuel like anything unless u keep it turned down.

[BigMal]

Yeah they are great for tip-in or throttle response but are not all
that good for closed loop or fuel economy. By turning it down you
defeat the purpose of having it.

I have heard that you can squeeze the stock FPR to make it
hold more pressure. I cant recomend it as a mod just know
a lot of people do it to save the $300 to $400 bucks.

Regards

Mal

[TDK]

Does anyone know who supplies and fits a FSE for a SP20 in Sydney.

Thanks,
TDK

[Cosmo Dude]

The BA uses (for lack of a better name) what Bosch a calls Motronic E EFI system.
The CPU opens the injector for a predetermined time for current engine conditions, the fuel pressure (controlled by the FSE) can change the amount of fuel injected in that time.
The O2 sensor will cut this time back if the mixture becomes too rich or increase it if too lean, the FSE will ensure, if in doubt, you are in the rich (power/safe) area than in the lean (economy).
Sounds like a nice move, don't go beyond your current engines limits as the CPU will not cope too well.

Rod

[Dogo]

Does anyone know who supplies and fits a FSE for a SP20 in Sydney.

Thanks,
TDK

I got mine for my BA at autobarn.

The unit is the same across all cars, but the adaptor for the fuel rail will be different. they can just get the right one in for you if they dont have it. Mine arrived the next day.

[TDK]

Thanks Dogo.

Whats the difference between a FSE and a FPR?

[Toyboy]

Its the same thing man, FSE is the brand of the FPR :wink:

[TDK]

I called Autobarn (Auburn, NSW) today. They said the only AFPR they have is a Malpasy (Malpasey?). It costs $250.

Dogo, which Autobarn did you get the FSE brand from. Is the Malpasy brand any good.

TDK

[Rupewrecht]

the FSE is more or less a copy of the Malpassi, but apparently better made that the Malpassi

[TDK]

Does anyone know where i can get a FSE brand FPR.

[ezin]

If u increase ur pressure! u will need to increase the timing! Thus giving the engine more time to burn the extra fuel! Nice power increase + much better throttle response! If ya cant manually change the timing, the ecu will shorten the injector duration until it hits its minimum setting its programed to do! After this the car will start to run rich! and from what i know from dyno tuning a rich motor runs cool but has less power! A lean motor runs hot but lots more power!

Remember! nearly all aftermarket tuners that put chips in are just advancing the timing and leaning out the mixture for the main driving conditions! Eg: Full Throttle! and leave the crusing program standard!

So keep ur chiped engines well serviced! Oil change's every 5000km! :)

[TDK]

Whats the difference between a Boost Valve and a Fuel Pressure Regulator. If you have a look at the FSE website www.fuelsystem.co.uk you will see that they have both. My car does not have a Turbo, but i do have a Unichip piggy back computer. Which one would be applicable for me.

Also, does anyone know who sells the FSE brand.

Thanks,
TDK

[BigBoyLemonade]

http://www.globalautomotive.com.au/

These guys are great! email him and he will send dyno charts and give you honest advice...

I have been meaning to get one for ages but I still cant justify the $450 when I can buy an electronic boost controller for that...

I have heard of pressing the standard fuel pressure regulator in with a screw driver which increase the pressure but if you do it to much you will screw up your injectors

[globalautomotive]

Hi guys,

Seen as i have been getting a few hits from this site i thought I would pop past and see what all the fuss is about.. Your chatting about my FSE products. That’s great, i like you guys already.

My name is Adam and can help you with any questions you may have regarding the FSE FPR's if you so require. You guys seem to know what you’re on about though. Here's some information that you some of you may have been confused about.

FSE is an Italian brand that manufacturer's Malpassi Fuel Pressure Regulators (FPR). There are a few types available. The one most useful to us modifiers is the High Rate of Rise Regulator (HRR). Basically this means it has a higher air:fuel ratio than that of the standard 1:1. A HRR unit rates at 1:1.7 meaning for every 1lb of manifold air pressure you will receive 1.7lb of fuel pressure. When you press the accelerator the slowest thing to respond is the Fuel Pressure Reg. With a HRR regulator the speed of response is 1.7 faster than factory. This explains the expedited throttle response off the line and between gears.

The HRR unit is also good because it is Rising Rate. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of efi FPR's are in fact rising rate. However they seem to reach max fuel pressure at about 3500 revs and fail to hold any more, leaving the injectors on their own to increase duty cycles in an effort to supply fuel. The FSE HRR increases pressure as required by the engine is allot higher, essentially allowing the injectors to retain duty cycle lengths although supply more fuel.

With rising rate regs of this nature we all understand that fuel pressure in a system is constantly changing to match the air flow through the manifold. They use vacuum/boos to determine the amount of air flow at any one time and will determine the fuel pressure to match this air flow. A correctly adjusted fuel pressure reg will not waist excessive amounts of fuel unless the car is thrashed. Why i say this is because fuel delivery with this mod is like no other in that it will only give you the fuel when you ask for power, however will remain at stock levels when cruising. No other fuel based mod can offer this.

Rising rate Regs are like a safe guard for your engine. By richening up on increases in air flow you can be sure that your engine's combustion chamber is not running dry. A lean mixture especially with a forced induction engine will not take long to crack a compression ring. A friend who just bought a S15 with a badly tuned aftermarket piggy back computer has just discovered that his cylinder 1 is down to 90psi instead of 140psi just because of lack of fuel. What a headache..

As mentioned this unit is adjustable. All adjustments to the FPR's are made at idle. Your factory fuel pressure may be approx 28psi and depending on you air based mods you may end up finding max power at 35psi. Very marginal difference in fuel pressure but that would be the difference between running lean or stoichiometrically rich (rich side of correct mixtures). The easiest and most accurate way of describing the theory behind the use of these regs is as follows. When you modify your engines intake and exhaust, essentially what you have done is increased the air flow volume. The air flow pattern remains the same. Therefore the fuel delivery pattern should remain the same, just increased. Adjusting the fuel pressure up does exactly that.

Fuel pressure adjustment is only meant to be marginal. Quite honestly you should only waist fuel when you thrash your car, otherwise fuel pressure pretty much sits at factory. The reason your closed loop system doesn't make drastic changes to the fuel curve is because of 2 reasons. 1. the fuel curve can only be trimmed up or down marginally to lean out or richen the supply. and 2. these adjustments are only sensed at idle not during the rev range. Seen as fuel supply is essentially the same at idle, no change or very little change is made to the curve.

Finding the correct pressure without a dyno is still pretty accurate and easy (although try to get it on a dyno if possible). 15 minutes of test driving will be enough time for you to increase the fuel pressure up in stages until you find which level has given you the highest power improvement. Increasing the level too high is of no benefit as an over rich mixture will result in loss of power.

As someone mentioned earlier, you will not need fuel unless you have air.
If you don't need fuel then you won't get power. You will find yourself probably be trying to turn the pressure up too high wondering were the power is and consequently waisting fuel. Your response when asked about the product would be... 'ah it gave me no power and it waists lots of fuel.' Not the sort of thing we really benefit from hearing. What makes it worse for us is when that person goes and puts on a air-filter/exhaust and can't believe the power he has gained. :roll:

When supplied to a car that has had no other fuel chips or aftermarket computers currently installed on it we can guarantee your power increase. We can do this because the product operates to specifically provide the amount of fuel required by your engine (twice as fast), therefore providing the maximum power obtainable from a fuel based mod.

The FSE Power Boost Valve (PBV) is a FPR kit. It is made by FSE Malpassi, and offers us all a bolt on solution. The problem with modern efi systems is that the factory regulators position is now usually found bolted to the end of the fuel rail instead of between 2 hoses. So FSE has gone to the trouble of designing little fittings that bolt to the fuel rail to replace these regulators. In the kits you also receive all hoses/fixing items/the FPR complete with a gauge and also instructions so you can do the job yourself. Rebirthing the product in this way has really paved the way for huge sales of Malpassi Fuel Pressure regs.

FSE also offer a range of Motor sport fuel systems, such as H.Vol fuel pumps internal and external and the recent release of the Bullet Cleanable High Flow Fuel Filter.

Hope this helps..

And the winner of the longest message reply goes to.... :arrow:

[Crazy Jeff]

WOW, what a reply!

Really informative and excellent.

So simple even a KIWI like me can understand it.

Many thanks

Crazy Jeff

[BigBoyLemonade]

Told you they give good reasoning

[Trav]

well bugger me - that was a fantastic reply - back this one up for the tech page :)

Now that Adam's a memeber of AstingGT, do we get mates rates :P j/k

[kyra]

Hey,
I am hopeless with mechanical mods, and wondering if this 10kw gain is true? Which dyno were those results recorded on? seems steep for 400+ though.

[globalautomotive]

As with any mod it's really hard to predict what sort of power your application will get. Performance mods work in unicen. All variables of the combustion reaction have to be dealt with to attain a result.

Why i particularly like the RR FPR as a good performance options is because its function via the vacuum/boost line is to match fuel to air flow
at all times. It will give you the maximum power you can get from adding additional fuel to the system. The power that you do get is in fact power that your air based mods were supposed to give you.

The first dyno i did on a vtec integra was a shock actually, i was expecting half the result we got. This thing hadn't been tuned for ages and the AVO dyno read a 14kW @ wheels, and 52Nm of torque improvement (@145kph) at fuel pressure 40psi. The before and after run was done 10min apart. The dyno dude, just looked over at me and said 'what the hell did you do in the last 10min?' I should have done another run at 45psi because as we later discovered this was the optimum fuel pressure (it was good for 17-18kW). The car was decently ready for fuel though... it had a AEM cold air intake and Tanabe exhaust. With none of that it would have pulled maybe 4 or 5kW @ wheels. You see my point though im sure. Make certain you need fuel!

What i notice about our power curves is that maximum power is at a useable region of the rev range. So it tends to creep up relatively early and improve to it's max power difference between 5-6000 RPM.

Regards,
Adam.

[BigBoyLemonade]

Well Adam after all your excellent posts I think I will be purchasing one for my car(soon as I get some money). Its has a 1.8 BP Turbo Motor ( and the Fuel mixtures are ok on the dyno and I managed to pull 112.5kw on dodgy dyno (its meant to be 10kw to low) at 12psi. I just first need to sort out a few other issues like Throttle position sensor and a stuffed EGO sensor.

When I get the $$$ I will do a little article for you on the improvment. Geoff one of our former members said his success was using one of these. 140+kw
with similar mods.

My goal is to get 135kw @ the wheels on a normal dyno with 14psi and stock ECU. Should be higher if I take the 18's off the car

[globalautomotive]

I think your power gain is a realistic expectation... Thanks in advance for the tech write up.

[Rupewrecht]

Heya Adam

you might remember me - you installed an FSE on my burgundy Astina sedan in south melbourne around christmas time a few years ago - i can only report good things about it. And it works well with my turbo setup :)

cheers
Daniel

[globalautomotive]

Daniel I remember doing an installation but the car was a non turbo set up at the time. I do remember you, you were a IT dude or a web dude or something. You were a nice guy. Im glad its going well for you.

[Dogo]

Ive only got good things to say abt mine too. It was easy to install, & I was immediately very impressed with the unit in my v6 BA astina. Only other mod at the time was CAI.

As well as performance in power & response, i found that it made the car sound a bit more beasty too :D

The trial-and-error approach to setting the guage pressure is interesting, but some guidance would've been good.

For reference, according to the mazda manuals section on testing the fuel regulator, the pressure going into the stock regulator should be :

4cyl BA -
200-240 kPa { 2.0-2.4 kgf/cm² , 29-34 psi }
6cyl BA -
210-240 kPa { 2.1-2.5 kgf/cm² , 30-35 psi }

and with the vacuum hose removed :

4cyl & 6cyl BA -
280-310 kPa { 2.8-3.2 kgf/cm² , 40-45 psi }


i dunno if thats of any use to ppl, or how accurately it reflects against the psi shown on the FSE PBV ...


Dave

[Cosmo Dude]

burgundy Astina sedan

Passion rose Dan :wink:

Seriously, when I dyno the Cosmo I always have starvation issues over 5,000 rpm no matter what I do in the fuel pump arena. Malpassi has been sugested and I now understand why.
Good to know my options.

Rod

[globalautomotive]

Dave thats a good bit of information you have supplied their mate. It shows a real comparison between standard and RR FPR's. I refer to start pressure near the 30psi mark and the figure for vacuum off (40-45psi).

The fuel pump for your car would have a fuel pressure of about 70-80psi, and the fuel reg's max fuel pressure is 40-45psi. The start pressure is approx 30psi giving approx 15psi variation in pressure between full vacuum and nill vacuum. This supports my comments related to the 'inability of factory regs to rise,' leaving the poor old injectors to take care of business. In those higher revs, it gets increasingly harder for the injectors supply the demand.

The malpassi will rise almost to the max capacity of the fuel pump if required to, never risking a lean out problem.

Regards,
Adam

[Toyboy]

Well once again my PBV has risen to 45PSI by itself for about the 4th time,i keep adjusting it down and it keeps rising back to 45psi at idle :?
I think the engine wants no less :lol: Its damn strange :P

[Dogo]

do some weights so u can tighten the adjustment screw better :wink: :P

lol j/k

[rocket]

ive got 1 installed in a 91 asttina it done a difference

[Cosmo Dude]

when I dyno the Cosmo I always have starvation issues over 5,000 rpm no matter what I do in the fuel pump arena.

Rod

Just did a Dyno run today in the Cosmo.
Fuel went lean at 5000rpm as expected then came back to the normal over rich untill 6500rpm.

Time for a re-tune, estimate is another 50kw at the wheels :D

[skippy]

anyone interested in a group buy for the V6?

sorta interested?

[Aaron]

OK Dumb question time - it appears the Malpassi on the Lynx leaks - first it was the two alloy housings being loose, plus a small weep around the pressure gauge threads. New pressure gauge is in the car now and it appears to maybe have a small weep still...

How are people getting these thigns in and not leaking? Is it really a case of cranking up the fittings as tight as they can go and hoping? Or is there a magic sealant people are using?

Note I did the teflon tape thing on the weekend and think that fixed it - but I generally don't like using those sorts of band-aid approaches so I'm looking for ideas...



A.

[Dogo]

mine used to be ok. Then when i put it into the new car it leaked around the bolts holding the top and bottom together - not surprising, its old, been tossed in a box for a while, and then went into the new car which has a stronger fuel pump (walbro )

I just tightened the bolts and it was fine.

I use Stag sealant on the nipple threads when i put it in. They didnt leak at all.

[Aaron]

Yeah this one nearly fell in half, lost a few litres of fuel onto the ground but once re-tightened it's all good.

Now a few days and about 100km on the new gauge and there's no trace of leaking so I think it's another job I can cross off the list!

A.

[predi]

I read all the topic, but as my native language is not English I had trouble understanding few things.
So to conlude (correct me if I'm wrong):
there are two types of FPR:
1. with the constant fuel pressure
2. with rising rate fuel pressure

Q1: As I understood the 2nd type is better than 1st one, but didn't understand whether 1st type is any good at all? does it give a noticable difference?
Q2: Are these on Ebay for 30$-50$ any good? what are the differance between FSE any Ebay ones? Are there any risks on buying cheaper ones?

Q3: (talking about NA engine) Does FPR really forces more fuel into the engine? I mean if ECU sees more fuel entering, doesn't it shortens the opening time of injectors (I don't know how to exactlly explain it in english :/ ), resulting in less fuel (less meaning the same amount as before) entering the engine?

[Cosmo Dude]

Predi,
Fuel pressure regulators use the vacuum from the engine to control fuel flow. Most factory fuel pressure regulators are set more lean so that the ECU can measure the exhaust as lean and increase the duration of the injector pulse, this is better for fuel economy and emissions.
Having an adjustable regulator gives you the flexibility to have the engine run a little rich before the ECU corrects the injector pulse from running rich.

As for e-bay...
I would only buy from e-bay product that I had researched and was prepared to buy from a shop.

[Dogo]

I dont think there are constant pressure regulators. The normal FPR rises the fuel pressure in response to intake manifold pressure ( with the vacuum line ). The aftermarket ones sometimes rise at a higher rate , and usually also let you adjust the base pressure.


Ebay is unfortunately being mis-used by people selling dodgy fakes - the whole site is getting a bad reputation from these guys.

Its best to just buy from a shop. If something is super-cheap on ebay , there's probably a good reason. With fuel related modifications, you dont want anything to go wrong else you'll risk a fire !

The ECU probably does some minor adjustment with the reading it gets from the oxygen sensor, but for acceleration it relies mostly on the air intake sensor.

[Cosmo Dude]

The ECU probably does some minor adjustment with the reading it gets from the oxygen sensor, but for acceleration it relies mostly on the air intake sensor.
Closed loop: ECU monitors exhaust gasses and alters injector pulses to meet the engines needs.
Open loop: ECU uses best guess and ignores input from the exhaust gas oxygen sensor.

Closed loop only works when the exhaust is up to temp but switches to open loop with WOT (wide open throttle) conditions.

[lantisv62500]

Adjustable fuel regulator are generally seen as a way of providing more fuel or for fine adjustment, but as with all short cut mods can make more problems if the pressure is increased too much or too little.
Something that is always overlooked is the fuel filters and the fuel pump.
By increasing the pressure are you going to get more FUEL VOLUME.
For a short period YES but then the fuel pump may not be able to maintain the volume required and then the mixture will lean off causing you much more expensive issues.
When I upgraded to a KLZE the standard V6 2litre fuel pump was not up to the job at all. (Major leaning out after 4000rpm)
I replaced the standard item with a higher volume in-tank fuel pump from a Nissan Skyline GT which I think was rated for up to 400hp engines.
(Very easy mod to do.)
Fuel pressure / volume issues GONE, and performance great and no affect on economy.
I have a air/fuel meter installed (have confirmed accuracy) and the mixture ratio are now controlled very well.
If you are going to do the FPR or increase your fuel pressure adjust it on a Dyno so that the affect on the air/fuel mix is monitored.
A little bit spent now may save a lot in the future.

[Dogo]

Closed loop: ECU monitors exhaust gasses and alters injector pulses to meet the engines needs.
Open loop: ECU uses best guess and ignores input from the exhaust gas oxygen sensor.

Closed loop only works when the exhaust is up to temp but switches to open loop with WOT (wide open throttle) conditions.

That much I know but surely there's a "Oh-sh*t-Im-running-too-lean/rich" safety measure ?

[lantisv62500]

When you go WOT the ECU then runs on set programmes (maps) that the ECU holds.
The readings from the O2 sensor is disregarded therefore the engine could be running too lean or too rich.
If you have a heavily modified motor then it would possibly pay to go to a after market ECU that can be adjusted and set up for your engine.
With the V6's and their VRIS inlet manifold valves you may have to take them out or set them open as I do not think the aftermarket ECU's can be programmed for them.
I installed a air/fuel ratio meter that takes readings from the O2 sensor and that has proven to be very accurate and helpful sorting out issues.
Otherwise go to a good shop with Dyno and get it checked.

[Putonyourshoes]

how much are these things? and are they worth it?
are these the things that make "whale like sounds?"

[Cosmo Dude]

They are silent but some come with a cool little guage :D
One will find its way onto the V6 when I start messing around with fuel delivery.

[Cosmo Dude]

Autobarn has a Speco FPR for $60ish and Malpassi for $180ish. Malpassi has a good name and is worth the $ IMHO.

[Putonyourshoes]

are they hideable? hahahaha (p plater)

[Cosmo Dude]

They can go almost anywhere on the return fuel line. The further from the vacuum source the less accurate they can be. If you had one without a guage then plod will probably not notice it.

[Putonyourshoes]

will it get rid of my lack of low end torque?
welll.. not get rid of but will it help my low end torque that i lost with the exhaust and cai?

[Cosmo Dude]

will it get rid of my lack of low end torque?
welll.. not get rid of but will it help my low end torque that i lost with the exhaust and cai?

The magic eight ball says...
Buy a book on performance tuning. The information within this tomb will bring you understanding.

[Putonyourshoes]

haahahahaha thanks mate.