What constitutes "hooning" from a legal perspective?

[LordWorm]

Hey,

Just been wondering today, what exactly constitutes "hooning" under the qld anti-hooning laws.

I've been trawling through the qld govt website looking for the relevant legislation, and it seems like its strewn accross at least 4 acts and ammendments, and the justification for hooning is very vague.

From what I can glean, it includes


Any breaking of traction - ANY AT ALL - this would include accidental traction loss such as foot slipping off clutch or wet road
suspected street racing - yep, suspected, they dont even need to prove it
driving in a manner that makes undue noise - without actually having to test, or prove that you made undue noise
having your stereo up too loud, again without measuring it
"aggressive" acceleration, even if you dont exceed the speed limit... I.e no Wide Open Throttle. Ever.


Of course, I cannot be sure of this, because I cannot find "the letter of the law" so to speak, but this is the general tone of the bits of the acts that I have read....

Does that mean that a copper on a bad day can just take your car off of you, without providing any proof, and its his word against yours? surely this is policing gone mad....I've got nothing against taking morons off our roads, but I'm not going to be happy if i get booked for chirping my tyres unintentionally, or getting a bit of wheel spin in gravel, or causing my craptastic factory tyres to howl a bit....

Does anyone have the list of what constitutes hooning?

also, a link to where speed cameras and radar traps can be setup would be good... i.e. where are they allowed and not allowed to put them up.... almost got booked last night by what i reckon was an uber dodgey position for a radar trap (right at the very bottom of a reasonably steep hill).

Cheers

EDIT: Only interested in stuff that can either be backed up by links to the legislation, actual personal experience etc. Urban myth, hearsay and whatever else is of little help.....I know all the urban myths surrounding these matters already ;)

[chicaboo]

What about the soccer mums that drive around roundabouts well under speed with the tyres howling because their alignment is out from running over kerbs all day?????????????

[LordWorm]

What about the soccer mums that drive around roundabouts well under speed with the tyres howling because their alignment is out from running over kerbs all day?????????????
hooning. from what i can gleen...

i may have the wrong end of the stick entirely
but it looks like 1 copper, with no quantifable evidence to back him up, can take away your pride and joy....and, on a 3rd "offence" confiscate it PERMINANTLY.

edit: and i think tehy should have an anti-4wd-that-never-go-offroad laws... you want to talk about stuff that is REALLY dangerous? Pajero drivers are more dangerous then a couple of "hoons" lighting their tyres up on a wide bit of unused road.....

edit: the suspected street racing bit disturbs me alot. would a convoy of mazda's having a spirited yet not illegal run through mount nebo be considered an organised street race? or could it be SEEN by some over zealous cop as such? given they need no proof, they only need to suspect it to impound your vehicle.....its kind of scary...this is why i REALLY want someone to confirm or otherwise my findings....because a nice big letter to the office of the premier with signatures of car club members and enthusiests may well be in order if the laws are like that...

[AstinaBoiV6]

i remember i did this for an assignment in grade 12 last year. apparently the first offence get the car impounded for like 48 hours then the 2nd is 1 month and the third is indeffinantly. That does suck if the first one it wasnt your fault but the second was and the third you might have not been looking at the lights and accidentlay slipped the clutch and spun the wheels once because people are beeping behind you.

I think its not a fair idea to have your car taken off you unless you actually are involved in very dangerous driving. not for suspected things or your stereo is too loud.

[LordWorm]

i remember i did this for an assignment in grade 12 last year. apparently the first offence get the car impounded for like 48 hours then the 2nd is 1 month and the third is indeffinantly. That does suck if the first one it wasnt your fault but the second was and the third you might have not been looking at the lights and accidentlay slipped the clutch and spun the wheels once because people are beeping behind you.

I think its not a fair idea to have your car taken off you unless you actually are involved in very dangerous driving. not for suspected things or your stereo is too loud.

I know the penalties, they are clear... but the circumstances under which they can impose a penalty appears to be DELIBERATLY vague... so the officer out doing his bit to fill the states coffers has almost absolute discression, whereas with other offences (speeding, exhaust noise, running red lights etc) he requires proof that you have done what you have done, he cannot penalise you based on suspision.

These laws obviously don't stop "hoons"...and they unfairly target safe, law abiding car enthusiests.

I want to know what constitutes hooning. What is the letter of the law definition. Because frankly, it scares the hell out of me that I may have no rights if I am ever put in the situation where one Plod whos having a bad day can take my pride and joy, even if only for 48 hours.

[Fro-Daddy]

as for downhills, brakes work...pretty sure they can put cameras where-ever they want, you shouldnt be speeding regardless really...

stereo too loud can stop you from hear an emergency siren or something i guess...

chirping is kinda gay, coz some are accidents (ie - hillstart in the wet or something

[LordWorm]

as for downhills, brakes work...pretty sure they can put cameras where-ever they want, you shouldnt be speeding regardless really...

stereo too loud can stop you from hear an emergency siren or something i guess...

chirping is kinda gay, coz some are accidents (ie - hillstart in the wet or something
Oh i have absolutely no problem driving at the speed limit down a hill. however I was under the impression that the camera had to be mounted a certain distance beyond a hill regardless. if its the rule, fine and dandy.

The general beef i have is with these vague "hoon" laws. Ok some stereos can be dangerously loud, but the point is that a police officer, it seems, can book you for it simply because he is jealous his paddy wagon doesnt have a decent stereo - REGARDLESS of how loud it is. They cant test the noise the stereo was making at the time the alleged infringement took place, because you've turned it off when they asked you to. Testing it for max volume only says the stereo is capable of going loud, not that you were running it loud.

Then the street racing - they only need to SUSPECT a street race...go look outside, find a pile of imports driving in convoy, and tell me you couldnt suspect they are upto some street racing shananigans? its so wishywashy its just stupid.

Chirping wheels, it should be like in NSW - a SUSTAINED LOSS OF TRACTION constitutes hooning, not any old loss of traction.

Anyway, i could be wrong, thats why i'm after clarification..
if i am right, it means that police now have the power to confiscate (in some cases perminantly) cars based on the fact that they dont like them (Skylines), or they want more time to go over them with a fine tooth comb for defects, or they are just in a grumpy mood....and that is dangerous.

Like i've said before, have no problem with getting the idiots off the street, but unfairly targetting legitimate, law abiding enthusiests because "everyone who owns a hotted up car must be a hoon" is idiotic...and quite scary.

[AstinaBoiV6]

so what you are saying is that there is no clear grounding for any of the hooning laws and they need a clear definition of what is classified as hooning. I gont nothing againts goin by the law but some of the stuff u say they class as hooning is just silly accidents.

[project.r.racing]

fcuk 'em, they'll mever pick me up for anything, too many legal avenues to take to get you off. 4 chases with no conviction and 2 upheld license suspensions prove that.

learn your rights and the law, you'll never lose.

[LordWorm]

so what you are saying is that there is no clear grounding for any of the hooning laws and they need a clear definition of what is classified as hooning. I gont nothing againts goin by the law but some of the stuff u say they class as hooning is just silly accidents.
What i'm saying is that i want to know my rights.... But with no written rules about what constitutes hooning, it appears they can book me (or anyone) FOR ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING THEY LIKE.

revenue raising gone mad

picking on tuners gone mad

picking on people who enjoy nice stereos gone mad

picking on enthusiests gone mad

its a popularist policy, and it stinks....

just look at what they classify as "defectable" and the reasons behind it, and you'll see that its full of **** (example, BOVs with atmospheric vent on turbo cars - are illegal because they vent gas into the atmosphere before it goes through the cat.....yeh, good point...but its just air ffs!

These hooning laws are just another way to crack down on people that enjoy making their cars perform better for whatever reason it seems.

does ANYONE know exactly where we stand, because as i've said, what i found out is simply from reading between the lines and reading of other people's experiences

[project.r.racing]

it's a very grey area still, even for the police. that's why alot of this anti-hooning laws are not being policed as suck nowadays. they are still ironing out all the bugs due to many people getting off and then sueing the police force for loss-of-pay, etc due to their cars being impounded. i wouldn't strees too much about it. life goes on.

[bourbon]

answer this one question for me please... WHY DO YOU NEED A STREET CAR TO GO FAST??? a street car gets you from A to B...if you want it to go fast play by the rules...its simple...im sorry people who try to get there away the system by not doin it right just get cought out sooner or later...

if you want a fast car build a race car...if it will be your street car build it to street legal specifications... that lil rant was bout defects...


but yes on another note the anti hooning laws suck...ive never known how to class a hoon...ill talk to some cops i no and see if i can get any info on the hoon laws...and get back to you guys...

[project.r.racing]

BOV noise doesn't mean your speeding, tyre chirp doesn't mean your speeding also. so why so uptight about it with the laws?

[bourbon]

BOV noise doesn't mean your speeding, tyre chirp doesn't mean your speeding also. so why so uptight about it with the laws?

talkin bout me?

i dont have any probs with the laws..there there for a reason so im not complainin...just i find the people who complain bout the laws are always the ones who get caught, and most of the time in the wrong...i dont like it when people complain when they get caught when in the wrong...

yes some laws are stupid...and yes people make mistakes...

when it comes to road rules + laws best to stick with them as peoples lives are at risk...

sorry for bein rude...

[Ian]

burbon, whats the size and decible raiting of your street cars exhaust man? You telling me youve never planted it or sped on a public road? Why I must have watched you speed on a public road 40 times by now...

Your car, my car, gavs car, nates car, my mums car, are all defectable if they look hard enough.

Apparently having a non-standard steering wheel is enough for a defect.

Theres tough and then theres stupid... Im going to aggree with lordworm on this, these hooning laws exist purely to satisfy the sensationalist old granny flapjaws in society.

[bourbon]

burbon, whats the size and decible raiting of your street cars exhaust man? You telling me youve never planted it or sped on a public road? Why I must have watched you speed on a public road 40 times by now...

Your car, my car, gavs car, nates car, my mums car, are all defectable if they look hard enough.

Apparently having a non-standard steering wheel is enough for a defect.

Theres tough and then theres stupid... Im going to aggree with lordworm on this, these hooning laws exist purely to satisfy the sensationalist old granny flapjaws in society.

ok didnt i say if you break the law and get caught and you complain thats when im pissed off...im happy to mod my car/or even break road rules, but ill accept the concequences when they come...

i am modding my car knowing what could happen its my own risk...

and i did say i agree on some of these laws sound really stupid...and ill try and find out exactly what they are...


sorry and again with the spelling of BOURBON! hahaha :p cant you see what its spelt like in my username :p

[twilightprotege]

we need to read through many many court rulings to find precedents....

and i need to get my friend to get me a copy of the police handbook (since he works in the qld polce) ;)

[LordWorm]

I'm not saying that we should be allowed to break the law ffs
if you speed and you get booked, your fault....deal.

what i'm saying is that ANY of us can be booked for "hooning" if a cop doesnt like the look of us or whatever..... you can be booked for GOING ABOUT YOUR OWN BUSINESS...that is what irks me. Car confiscation also irks me... if someone confiscated my car, they'd wanna be ready for a fight...

[Tublade]

I've been pulled over quiet a few time just becuase the look of my car and the cops have gone over it with a fine comb to try and find defects, but they couldn't get me for anything, but there excuss was random breath testing from a patrol car, so while i was giving him/her the reading their partner was going over my car.

[Ian]

Ive had that happen to me too.

Luckily it was just after id put the maxxis tyres on, and had 99% tread. This, coupled with my un-assuming exhaust, discouraged them.

Then again ive had one very fat, very nasty, very stupid police sgt pop a look around my engine bay and call it "stock".

He failed to notice the turbo and the huge leads, not to mention the lack of certain legal bits.

It was the BG Astina T mate, mazda released them ages ago mate!

[bourbon]

Ive had that happen to me too.

Luckily it was just after id put the maxxis tyres on, and had 99% tread. This, coupled with my un-assuming exhaust, discouraged them.

Then again ive had one very fat, very nasty, very stupid police sgt pop a look around my engine bay and call it "stock".

He failed to notice the turbo and the huge leads, not to mention the lack of certain legal bits.

It was the BG Astina T mate, mazda released them ages ago mate!

he wouldnt have a clue if they came out turbo or not unless if he was into mazdas and astinas...

[LordWorm]

Ive had that happen to me too.

Luckily it was just after id put the maxxis tyres on, and had 99% tread. This, coupled with my un-assuming exhaust, discouraged them.

Then again ive had one very fat, very nasty, very stupid police sgt pop a look around my engine bay and call it "stock".

He failed to notice the turbo and the huge leads, not to mention the lack of certain legal bits.

It was the BG Astina T mate, mazda released them ages ago mate!
Yeh that'll work most of the time "i bought it like this officer!" etc...

but my point is..they wont get you for defects now, they'll get you for "accellerating agressivly" or "driving a vehicle in a manner which creates undue noise" or "suspected street racing" or any other **** they can make up and can't prove...

[Ian]

"suspected street racing"
"loud"

every ricer is stuffed!

Skyline(/180/silvia/nissan in general/anything with the letters X and R in it/anything with GT in it/more...) drivers, time to granny up!

Not saying thoes cars are rice necessarily, but im saying a skyline is suspected of street racing just by being there.

Prehaps its the new age of the sleeper?

[LordWorm]

"suspected street racing"
"loud"

every ricer is stuffed!

Skyline(/180/silvia/nissan in general/anything with the letters X and R in it/anything with GT in it/more...) drivers, time to granny up!

Not saying thoes cars are rice necessarily, but im saying a skyline is suspected of street racing just by being there.

Prehaps its the new age of the sleeper?
well i'm not 100% sure, but it sure as hell looks like that...i spent a good hour trawling through various legislations today...couldnt find squat about what can be used to justify a hooning charge

its appauling though, that just because you like a certain type of car you can get done for having it..... its not the car thats the problem, its the MINORITY of wankers who drive them....target them, not the cars ffs.

[Ian]

Howabout that wanker that managed to rack up 150+ demerit points in the space of a few months?

what a tool! Hes in jail now for fraud.

[Nate]

dont be a tool around the cops and you wont get done for anything. if you get pulled over then just be nice and apoligetic and you can usually talk your way out of it with just a warning. If you get a fine look for ways you can work your way out of it in court

at the end of the day the cops are just doing there job, they are the ones that have to go searching for your body parts after you wrap your car around a tree and pulling you over for guning it off the lights means they wont be getting out the body bag at the next corner. they are also doing there other job of keeping the budget balanced but thats the society we live in these days.

getting back on topic the legislation is there so they can get you for anything, same with the rule where you can get booked for anything distracting while driving, so technically you can get booked changing the radio station. they bring in all these rules to keep dickheads off the streets ( i know of only one person who has been charged under them - he was doing skids in his vn ) so be sensible and you will be sweet. by all means have fun in your car, just dont go smoking em up on a saturday night at broadwater and the fuzz will be more interested in getting to macca's than pulling you over. remember just cause there is a new law does mean 1000 extra police are going to be targetting you.

[AstinaBoiV6]

Hey i was just wondering what about the cars taht came stock with loud exhausts. Eg Skyline Gtr34 Nur for one came with a 4" nismo factory exhaust on it and carbon fibre bonnet thats painted white on the top so looks normal. SUrley if they have a good look underneath it its a defect but its all factory.

The way i see it any car is cabable of breaking the laws but riced cars or loud cars are the targets. Atleast Ians and petes look pretty much stock on the outside so they might have a better chance of geting away with mods.

But yer never be rude to cops. they may just breath test you but if you start being rude u beter believe they will go through your whole car checking and defecting you on everything they can. Oh a question. how far are police alowed to search your car Eg. they need a warant to go through boot/bonnet or inside?. Im guessing if u know your rights they will **** u up even harder because u will look like a smartarse.

[Ian]

if a car is sold registered from a dealer, in theroy its supposed to be defect free.

Its certainly been approved for mass production by the RTA. So no stock car is defectable unless theres something wrong with it, in theroy.

[AstinaBoiV6]

Question: Ian if you turn your BOV (supposing you have an adjustable one) do u lose any power. Because like the stock ones you cant even hear. If no power loss then y dont turbo cars just turn it down and then no1 can get them for venting air back into the atmosphere. I gota say that sounds soo stupid ay who ever wrote these rules needs to be smacked hard. :D

[Nate]

Question: Ian if you turn your BOV (supposing you have an adjustable one) do u lose any power. Because like the stock ones you cant even hear. If no power loss then y dont turbo cars just turn it down and then no1 can get them for venting air back into the atmosphere. I gota say that sounds soo stupid ay who ever wrote these rules needs to be smacked hard. :D

simple answer ... its not fully sik

[AstinaBoiV6]

would u rather b fully sik and have no car? or just sik and with a car?

I agree bov sound sik but some are soo dam loud no wonder ppl get anoyed sometimes. this guy that drives a 300zx tt on my street has had his twin zorsts made into 1 fully loud one. my street wher my house is is on a uphill so exhausts are running ful loud anyway from the revs and his vibrates the front windows from the houses on the street. + comes late night with his stereo turned up. atleast i turn it down when goin onto suburban streets.

on a funny note i remember in the prelude we used to rev it in parking lots and set off caralarms. But i agree it was wrong and it was back when i first got my licence. :rolleyes:

[boostedbatman]

Defect free from the dealer..........BAH
If a cop wants to he can find something to defect you for, even if you've just driven a new car out of the showroom
As Nate said.... be nice and dont do stupid things or you only have yourself to blame
Most of the time (and I did say most) they may defect your car but they are really defecting you!
Your actions will pick up attention before your car will
If you flog your car, burn rubber, play your doof doof too loud, or any other silly thing then accept thatYOU have been targeted for your actions and get over it
Just beacause we make our cars go faster doesn't make it ok to do so
Its still illegal to smoke weed yet you can buy a bong (sorry thats a tobacco pipe...yeah right)

[LordWorm]

Oh dont get me wrong... I'm all for cracking down on "hoons", just against anti-hooning laws that really dont give anyone a chance.

There are overzealous cops who have used broadreaching laws in the passed to flex their muscles and justify their existance, and well all know that alot of traffic offenses are targetted for revenue raising, not to keep our roads safe.

The fact is that unless we know our rights, what they can and cannot do, we don't stand a chance in a state where popular opinion seems to dictate policy, regardless of how insanely stupid the policy is.

So the question still remains - what constitutes hooning?

[Ian]

Boi:

My car doesent have a aftermarket BOV. Stock to a rock(et), baby!

Im not f00ly enough to have a BOV.

[Nate]

Oh dont get me wrong... I'm all for cracking down on "hoons", just against anti-hooning laws that really dont give anyone a chance.

you still have to give the cops a reason to pull you up, and he still has to prove his case in court! if you were happily cruising down the street at 60 even the most pissed off cop isnt going to go hey i saw you street racing, i mean he knows it is never going to stand up in court providing you know how to string a case together. if you are doing the right thing and the cops pissed off the worst he will do is defect you, and even then the cop has to have some idea, cause if it aint got a pod, bov or turbo, the standard cop wont know what else to look for.

There are overzealous cops who have used broadreaching laws in the passed to flex their muscles and justify their existance

ok who here, or anyone you directly know has been targeted by an overzealous cop ( no dan you dont count, thats just what you get for being in victoria :p ) just curious thats all. i have been pulled over heaps because of my stereo / 17's / zhaust. They check my tyres, i blow in the bag and im off on my merry way, and there is a lot they could get me for. the only place i have ever seen cars have a going over is on a thursday or saturday night at (insert local fully sik hectic choice cuz carpark here), why cause its a soft target!, and notice how the carparks only ever get shut down after a bad car crash resulting from street racing?

and well all know that alot of traffic offenses are targetted for revenue raising, not to keep our roads safe.

True that! but thats a whole other can of worms, mr worm :p

[Rupewrecht]

anyone you directly know has been targeted by an overzealous cop ( no dan you dont count, thats just what you get for being in victoria :p )

Haha :p

It's true it's for being in Victoria tho. A mate recently got pulled over for a 'Random P Plate check' - and he drives a completely stock looking and sounding CC Lancer coupe. The fact that it's got an EVO motor under the bonnet with a TC06 (look it up) is beside the point - the cop wasn't even interesting in the car.

/back on topic