No longer modless!!!!

[LordWorm]

Ok, started a performance parts company..thought it was about time my car got some performance treatment!!!!


This "mod" was only really taken as the opertunity came up..I wasnt thinking of getting this first....and was actually last on my list for the "stage 1 upgrade"...but I got a second hand set of the 95 durometer AWR engine mounts for the BJ2 for a great price, and had to have them.

Glad I got them too! Put the front one in tonight, and the stocko front one is CACTUS...which explains away most of my serious tramp issues.

Gave the car an absolute ring stinging on the way home to see what a diff it made, and its really improved the traction off the mark, and reduced tramp especially while power out of a corner which was amplifying my torque steer quite a bit previously.

Ok so now I'm modded! :) whats next?

We're devleoping a BJ cold air so my car will be the guinea pig..I think thats next...Then custom header and exhaust....closely followed by microtech LT10s with X4, 4 coils and wideband dataloggin.

Also somewhere in there i'm getting new rubber (tax return).

Very happy with my new addition..can't wait to get hte rear one in for some extra goodness =)

[twilightprotege]

you mean the stocko one was completely ripped away on one side...

[LordWorm]

you mean the stocko one was completely ripped away on one side...
yes
cactus
stuffed
bugged
rooted
shagged
mangled
demasticated
dead.
f*cked.
:)

[boostedbatman]

Well you dont have long tilll Jambo in the Grand Scheme of things so I am glad the road has been laid, now get with the modding then ey!
Bout time I stuck that to another :D

[LordWorm]

Well you dont have long tilll Jambo in the Grand Scheme of things so I am glad the road has been laid, now get with the modding then ey!
Bout time I stuck that to another :D
Yeh gotta go faster!!!
Given the amount of damage to the stocko front engine mount... I reckon the new ones are going to give a marked improvement to 60 foot times. So i'm going to guess tehy are worth a 15.9sec pass to me

Cold air will hopefully give me another 0.1

Custom header and exhaust, 0.2

Microtech 0.4

That gets me to 15.2 seconds... which is still what, 3 tenths off the pace for qualifying....finding those 3 tenths is not going to be overly easy.... Cams are the only thing I can think of that'll do it for me without resorting to fun stuff like flywheel and the like....maybe should add them to the list also =)

[arden]

got any pics of the damaged mount?
how many kays has ur car done?

[LordWorm]

got any pics of the damaged mount?
how many kays has ur car done?
Car has done just over 50 000.

No pics yet, if I remember i'll take some tonight.

Essentially, the rubber bushing has torn right through on one side, so the other side is just flapping around.. it would have probably doubled the amount of movement allowed in the front of the motor... nasty.

I think the reason why it ripped was pretty clear. Twiggy was under my car undoing the bolts to get it off, and noticed they were nowhere near tight enough (only hand tightened)...and there was heaps of free play... so at some point, my car has been serviced and the mount has been removed...then put back in and not tightened.

Who cares now though, I have absolutely zero movement in the front of the engine now...and by the end of the weekend i'll have absolutely zero movement in the engine at all. it'll be stuck nice and good.

I've decided to leave the sides alone...because after watching the motor while it revs, it is very clear that the side mounts do not have any baring over forwards or backwards rocking. they are holding the engine up and thats about it....and AWR don't make side mounts, only inserts...the difference which I do not personally believe would be great enough to warrent spending the extra cash... motor just does not move on the side mounts....

[platypus]

will make a difference to handling... if drag racing is your aim, don't bother - if track work or even just nebo runs are your aim then do somehting with them....

[LordWorm]

will make a difference to handling... if drag racing is your aim, don't bother - if track work or even just nebo runs are your aim then do somehting with them....
the car is being built to go fast in a straight line.

it'll have the usual whiteline gizmos that all BJ owners seem to do, so it'll hold its own on a nebo run, but it is by no stretch of the imagination going to be a mountain goat like some people have built.

[boostedbatman]

He he mountain goat :D
Please dont tell me you are going to try to hit sub 15s on your stock clutch :eek:
Or did you not post that as its not a "power mod"
Sorry just had to clarify that
Goog luck with it Greggles

[project.r.racing]

Goog luck with it Greggles
yeah goog luck with it, hehe :D

[LordWorm]

He he mountain goat :D
Please dont tell me you are going to try to hit sub 15s on your stock clutch :eek:
Or did you not post that as its not a "power mod"
Sorry just had to clarify that
Goog luck with it Greggles
I will go as far as the stock clutch will take me. Gearbox is coming off ONCE..which makes it an expensive exersize (LSD, Flywheel and Clutch..). So i'm going to try and get the mileage out of what i've got.

I am confident that the clutch is safe to low 15s...given Kurt had no grief, and its POSSIBLE that the oil leak killed andrew's stock clutch as it did his clutchmaster....its a risk i'm willing to take....if i get towed, then i change it...if i dont get towed, i get through the first round of jambo and have put off spending a big whack of money that can be spent elsewhere.

The only thing that worries me is it has had a very minor on street slip... but has never done it again even at the track with 4k rpm launches and riding it hard out of first......it feels a bit funny in the engagement point seems to move....so i dunno..it might die...*shrug*

So i guess my answer is yes, I am going to attempt to go sub 15 on stock clutch.....but I know in the back of my mind that its only a matter of time that before that kind of abuse kills it... you've said before you're amazed my clutch has withstood the abuse i've already given it... 20 odd runs down the quarter, the last 10 at reasonably insane launch RPM....

[platypus]

strut bracing i thought would slow a drag time?

[LordWorm]

strut bracing i thought would slow a drag time?
Prob...specially in the rear, it'd jsut be extra weight...have to get a custom rear strut brace made anyway..but that'll get pulled out for racing....front strutbrace...well...i'll just leave it there...cbf pulling it off every time i wanna race.

[project.r.racing]

just get quick release bolts

[chipa]

I've decided to leave the sides alone...because after watching the motor while it revs, it is very clear that the side mounts do not have any baring over forwards or backwards rocking. they are holding the engine up and thats about it....and AWR don't make side mounts, only inserts...the difference which I do not personally believe would be great enough to warrent spending the extra cash... motor just does not move on the side mounts....

IMHO the motor certainly does move more. Try going over a bumpy surface with WOT in 1st and sometimes 2nd. My motor moves more as my makeshift side mount inserts slowly come undone. The interesting thing is that driving on almost every other surface is fine including going nuts on tight twisties... :p The really interesting thing is that it appears to only be the gearbox side mount that is working harder when I would have thought it would be the other side.

[chicaboo]

The diff is offset to the left, so the greatest up and down movement is on that side, that is why the gearbox mount makes the most difference and is the biggest. The drivers side mount takes a lot of weight, but it seems to pivot from that mount in the way of movement. I think the side inserts are worthwhile, but that is why I have them...

[LordWorm]

Gav - you also have the softer mounts... from a purely visual inspection of how it seems to move, the hard mounts I have do a fantastic job of locking up the movement of the motor...of course visual inspection isnt overly accurate, granted....but its enough for me...if I can't see the movement, then the movement isn't causing me enough grief to go get the inserts.

If there were full side mount replacements available i'd prob buy them, but more from a weight saving point of view than anything... the stock mounts look like they weigh a tonne!

[chicaboo]

Mounts come in 70, 88 and 95 durometer ratings. Mine are 88, on the scale of things, they are harder than I care for...

Give me Andy's car and I can still make it axle tramp! He knows this, he's been there when I've done it. Mine only seems to do it very rarely under revlimit pretty much...

Removing engine rocks helps a lot, but it won't entirely remove axle tramp, as it is an up and down movement (which is the gearbox mount)...

[LordWorm]

Mounts come in 70, 88 and 95 durometer ratings. Mine are 88, on the scale of things, they are harder than I care for...

Give me Andy's car and I can still make it axle tramp! He knows this, he's been there when I've done it. Mine only seems to do it very rarely under revlimit pretty much...

Removing engine rocks helps a lot, but it won't entirely remove axle tramp, as it is an up and down movement (which is the gearbox mount)...
The movement isn't up and down, its back and forth. The engine pivots on the side mounts, the movement isnt circular, its like a pendulum.

Sure andy's bustedass shocks have nothing to do with it?

[chicaboo]

You are right about the pivotal/pendulonic movement, but that's not back and forth movement laterally. Hence the movement is greater at top of engine than at bottom. I will argue this point to the death aswell.

Also, there is up and down movement of some sort, you just can't simulate it with the car parked and bonnet open... The engine's complete movement cycle is probably a triangular shape awe rotation, that's the best I can describe it.

Axle tramp was in Andy's car last year just after he got his Clutchmaster and Fidanza. His shocks were still good then...

[LordWorm]

You are right about the pivotal/pendulonic movement, but that's not back and forth movement laterally. Hence the movement is greater at top of engine than at bottom. I will argue this point to the death aswell.

Also, there is up and down movement of some sort, you just can't simulate it with the car parked and bonnet open... The engine's complete movement cycle is probably a triangular shape awe rotation, that's the best I can describe it.

Axle tramp was in Andy's car last year just after he got his Clutchmaster and Fidanza. His shocks were still good then...
The movement of the engine is totally locked off by the front and rear mounts though.

They prevent any upwards movement (if it at all exists, and i'll continue to insist that if it does exist, its so miminal, that no amount of hard inserts in the sides is going to cure it), they prevent any rocking back and forth...i mean you are reducing the total engine movement to a few millimeters once the hard mounts are in, so the sides become less and less relievant.

Sides with stock front and rears would probably do some work, but once those fronts have locked hte engine off, its not going anywhere.

just as an experiment...do the following:

Remove your front and rear and replace with the stockos, have a few hard launches.

Next, remove your sides, and put the hard front and rears back in.

tell me which setup gives the best result... i'd be very very surprised if there is much difference between with sides in and sides out.

now, i'm not saying that having side inserts is bad. if the stock bushings are shagged, might as well replace them with something that isnt going to break., all i'm saying is that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999OMFGH ECTIC% of the movement is controlled by the front and rear.

[chicaboo]

Ahhh, but you're not looking at the whole picture, the engine also pivots around the front and rear mounts from left to right, this is your up and down each side. :) Hence why I described it as an awe motion...

The rear engine mount makes the single biggest difference.

[LordWorm]

Ahhh, but you're not looking at the whole picture, the engine also pivots around the front and rear mounts from left to right, this is your up and down each side. :) Hence why I described it as an awe motion...

The rear engine mount makes the single biggest difference.
I'll agree the rear will make the biggest diff when its in.

not being in at the moment, if you rev it, the back of the engine looks like it disappears up its fundamental orifice.

And as I said before, from a purely visual point of view, any movement on the side mounts is undetectable... doesnt mean its not moving, but does mean its not moving far enough to make anymore than the barest fraction of an improvement.

[chicaboo]

Like I said earlier, you won't see from a purely visual point of view. The up/down movement is the engine trying to climb out of the car when you put load against the diff/driveshafts, which you can't do in the garage with the bonnet up.

We can take your bonnet off and go for a hell drive so you can film the engne movement. Now that'd be fun, particulary when it's your car! :D

[twilightprotege]

i didnt notice my engine moving when i drove from sydney to brisbane with the bonnet off ;)

[LordWorm]

Look if the mounts can arrest the rocking back and forth (which as you have already stated by saying the rear does the lions share of hte work is the largest amount of force being placed on the mounts), then its going to stop it moving up and down ALMOST ALL TOGETHER. No possible way it cant. The same bushing, the same strength of steel, the same limited about of movement is there. if it cant rock back and forth, it cant rock up, and the presence of sidemounts isnt going to alter this fact.

[chipa]

Sorry LordWorm, but I gotta agree with Gavin here. The sort of movement the side mounts restrict you'll never see just giving the engine a rev. In fact I'd be surprised if there was a large difference between the AWR and the stock here, although I never compared it. Its the behaviour on the road that speaks the loudest to me.

[Rupewrecht]

if it cant rock back and forth, it cant rock up, and the presence of sidemounts isnt going to alter this fact.

No, i'm sorry but you're wrong. You're only controlling 2 of the engines 4 axis by having stiffer front and rear mounts. So if you remove the side mounts the engine won't move up and down?

If (for arguments sake) the engine is being pulled from all 4 sides - one on each of the 4 sides - when you loosen off 2 on opposite sides, the engine will be able to turn on it's axis and you're only controlling 2 of ways it car turn. forward and back, or left and right.

Basically the same deal with your engine - you're stiffening up movement on the front and rear axis, but it can still move left and right which is also still up and down, just a different way.

[LordWorm]

Sorry LordWorm, but I gotta agree with Gavin here. The sort of movement the side mounts restrict you'll never see just giving the engine a rev. In fact I'd be surprised if there was a large difference between the AWR and the stock here, although I never compared it. Its the behaviour on the road that speaks the loudest to me.
Huge difference
simple before and after test proves this:

stock - engine shakes like hell, and rocks back to front all over the shop.
AWR front mount - engine shake eliminated almost completely. Engine only rocks back (restricted from rocking forward by AWR front mount).
AWR rear mount - from what I have seen of andy's engine bay when you give the engine a decent blip while stationary, engine doesnt move...at all.

Yes you get extra forces while there is load

BUT.....the most force applied to the engine is the pendulum like rock backwards.. if the mounts can arrest this, a minimal even when stock movement in an upwards direction is going to be gone for good.

The test is simple. Someone with a full set of 4 mounts runs the following:

CONTROL: All 4 mounts
TEST 1: AWR Front and Rear mounts in, side ones back to stock
TEST 2: AWR Side mounts, stock front and rear
TEST 3: All stock.

I would be willing to almost bet my left nut, that the difference between AWR sidemounts only and stock is nothing, the difference between all 4 and AWR front mount and rears is almost nothing.

Now, not saying theres no point to the side ones...brilliant if you needed replacement inserts like gav did...makes sense, rubber perishes, the urithane stuff doesnt. But the difference it makes to engine movement? well, i'll stand by the argument that the difference would be that fractional that you wouldnt notice it.

[chicaboo]

Since I'm the only person with all 4 mounts that we know of, you'll be able to hang onto your left nut for a while, because I'm not about to put myself out to prove the laws of physics. Only one engine mount is quick to remove/replace.

I can tell you that when I replaced my OEM r/h engine mount with a new one, the vibration decreased noticeably, when I put the inserts in it, there was no difference, however this particular mount only supports the dead end of the engine where there is the least movement, but still lots of weight...

Greg, you've gone from an almost not there front engine mount by your own accounts, to a very nice firm mount. I felt much the same improvements in mine too when I just had the front mount in. When you get the rear mount in you are in for a surprise! If you don't want to do the side mounts, that is your call...

[LordWorm]

Since I'm the only person with all 4 mounts that we know of, you'll be able to hang onto your left nut for a while, because I'm not about to put myself out to prove the laws of physics. Only one engine mount is quick to remove/replace.

I can tell you that when I replaced my OEM r/h engine mount with a new one, the vibration decreased noticeably, when I put the inserts in it, there was no difference, however this particular mount only supports the dead end of the engine where there is the least movement, but still lots of weight...

Greg, you've gone from an almost not there front engine mount by your own accounts, to a very nice firm mount. I felt much the same improvements in mine too when I just had the front mount in. When you get the rear mount in you are in for a surprise! If you don't want to do the side mounts, that is your call...
Just to clarify... not bagging the side mounts at all...just very skeptical about the "real world" improvement they offer.....You bought yours out of necessity did you not because your stockos tore?

I can tell you one thing, the car is a new beast...its like having a new car all over again, i can do heaps of things i couldnt do (like, easilly light it up at the lights without the car bouncing and skipping and making me look like a retard...actually didnt even mean to get smoke last night at my favorite intersection, and left in a cloud of thick smelly burnt rubber!)..and thats just the front mount

really cant wait to get the rear in...

Love the noise too..I can hear the engine, not just the sissy stocko exhaust which sounds like my cat farting or something....but the engine....explosions, NOISE..its great....

Mandy drove it and when she started it up she almost jumped out of her skin with the increased noise..scared **** out of her!..she loves it though, feels like the car is smoother on the road, even if the cabin is jittery at idle and when its being given a stinging.....

I feel a definante handling advantage too (prob because the engine isnt being slopped around by a shagged mount with inertia etc...)...i am confident in booting it out of a corner in a low gear, where as before, i'd get torque steer amplified by badass tramping making powering out of corners, especially left handers, very dangerous.

[chicaboo]

I've only ever had one torn mount, that was the r/h (which was replaced), but I bought the inserts to supplement the softer 88duro front and rear mounts, many hands make light work you see...

The front mount alone does help, particulary since yours was shagged. I didn't notice my front mount as much as that, but I did already have the side inserts. Your car will feel more stable on the road now because you have less unsprung weight (one of the paybacks of heavier cars aswell).

I'm not suggesting you need sidemount inserts. My original point, and this you can continue to argue if you feel you need to, is this: I can enduce axle tramp in Andy's car quite easily, he has the front and rear 95duro mounts. This is the setup you want to have, so I will be able to enduce axle tramp in your car too. It is very hard to get axle tramp in my car, and when I have done, it is much less severe, yet all my mounts are softer... What does this lead you to believe?

The end.

[LordWorm]

I've only ever had one torn mount, that was the r/h (which was replaced), but I bought the inserts to supplement the softer 88duro front and rear mounts, many hands make light work you see...

The front mount alone does help, particulary since yours was shagged. I didn't notice my front mount as much as that, but I did already have the side inserts. Your car will feel more stable on the road now because you have less unsprung weight (one of the paybacks of heavier cars aswell).

I'm not suggesting you need sidemount inserts. My original point, and this you can continue to argue if you feel you need to, is this: I can enduce axle tramp in Andy's car quite easily, he has the front and rear 95duro mounts. This is the setup you want to have, so I will be able to enduce axle tramp in your car too. It is very hard to get axle tramp in my car, and when I have done, it is much less severe, yet all my mounts are softer... What does this lead you to believe?

The end.
Leads me to believe andrew's shocks are shagged 5 ways from sunday and you'res are not :) its very difficult to compare them when other factors which contribute to tramp are unequal.

[marcs_sp20]

Just out of curiosity, how much would a set of engine mounts cost???

[LordWorm]

about $167USD plus postage I believe for the front and rear..then like, $15USD for the side mount inserts?

not 100% sure... check out the AWR website, details there

[marcs_sp20]

okies thanks for the heads up!

[chicaboo]

Leads me to believe andrew's shocks are shagged 5 ways from sunday and you'res are not :) its very difficult to compare them when other factors which contribute to tramp are unequal.Well I drove Andy's car last year and this year, his shocks felt no worse than mine back then, however they are considerably stuffed now, yes. Yet I did say that the time I drove his car with the axle tramp was last year when we were practicing launches.

So if his shocks being stuffed now caused the axle tramp back then, I can look forward to great improvements on my already non-existant axle tramp when I finally get my Tokico HP Blues I guess? ;)

[LordWorm]

Well I drove Andy's car last year and this year, his shocks felt no worse than mine back then, however they are considerably stuffed now, yes. Yet I did say that the time I drove his car with the axle tramp was last year when we were practicing launches.

So if his shocks being stuffed now caused the axle tramp back then, I can look forward to great improvements on my already non-existant axle tramp when I finally get my Tokico HP Blues I guess? ;)
haha i spose so!!!! - another factor, andrews car makes more torque/power than yours....so the forces being imparted on the car when its given a boot full are alot higher...that could also be a contributing factor to his tramp



Marc: just so you know, I wouldnt have gotten these mounts right now unless they were at the price that i got them for..it was an offer that was too good to refuse....

They are not going to improve power....although they make everything feel more "right" if that makes sense... the car behaves as you would expect it to and you get a good deal of feedback from the engine.

Soooo if going fast is your aim, i reckon your money is better spent elsewhere for now.

engine mounts were last on my list to buy for my first lot of upgrades....after exhaust, intake, header, cams, plugs and leads, microtech and a few other odds and ends. The fact that it ended up first was pure fluke.

So keep your ear to the ground for a good bargain, but i wouldnt concern yourself with getting them if there are powermods to be had =)

[chicaboo]

haha i spose so!!!! - another factor, andrews car makes more torque/power than yours....so the forces being imparted on the car when its given a boot full are alot higher...that could also be a contributing factor to his trampYes his car does make considerably more power than mine now, but funnily enough last year when we were practicing launches, he only had about ~93kW ATW, I now have 86kW ATW. Not a great deal of difference I would think. But once again, I am comparing his car back THEN, to my car NOW, having trouble grasping the concept? :confused:

You cannot defeat me my young Padoworm learner! :p

[marcs_sp20]

haha i spose so!!!! - another factor, andrews car makes more torque/power than yours....so the forces being imparted on the car when its given a boot full are alot higher...that could also be a contributing factor to his tramp



Marc: just so you know, I wouldnt have gotten these mounts right now unless they were at the price that i got them for..it was an offer that was too good to refuse....

They are not going to improve power....although they make everything feel more "right" if that makes sense... the car behaves as you would expect it to and you get a good deal of feedback from the engine.

Soooo if going fast is your aim, i reckon your money is better spent elsewhere for now.

engine mounts were last on my list to buy for my first lot of upgrades....after exhaust, intake, header, cams, plugs and leads, microtech and a few other odds and ends. The fact that it ended up first was pure fluke.

So keep your ear to the ground for a good bargain, but i wouldnt concern yourself with getting them if there are powermods to be had =)

Yeh thats cool, i was just seeing how much it would cost me as my car has fairly bad tramp problems, which indicate to me worn engine mounts. As for other mods, i'll surely be getting headers, MT, and a full tune up before the mounts are to be purchased.

[LordWorm]

Yes his car does make considerably more power than mine now, but funnily enough last year when we were practicing launches, he only had about ~93kW ATW, I now have 86kW ATW. Not a great deal of difference I would think. But once again, I am comparing his car back THEN, to my car NOW, having trouble grasping the concept? :confused:

You cannot defeat me my young Padoworm learner! :p
Not so much the power that'd be effecting it...it'd be torque.... rotational force of the crank ripping the engine back like a mofo...

even if he was making a few kW more than you, he could well have been making insane loads more torque than you, and it may have been coming on earlier and more rapidly.

[LordWorm]

Yeh thats cool, i was just seeing how much it would cost me as my car has fairly bad tramp problems, which indicate to me worn engine mounts. As for other mods, i'll surely be getting headers, MT, and a full tune up before the mounts are to be purchased.
visually inspect your mounts then... see if they are cactus
if they are cactus, things are only gunna get worse....vicious circle if you think about it.. worn mounts causes more engine movement which causes more stress on the mounts which wears them more which causes more movement etc etc.

I'd say either that, or my airborne fun is what shreaded my front one..cant wait to see what sort of condition the rear is in :eek:

[marcs_sp20]

Just had a look at them, they seem fine, but i will be keeping a good eye on them in the next coming months. If they dont feck up from my hard launches, the drive from ippy to toowoomba and back every weekend will.

Marc

[LordWorm]

Just had a look at them, they seem fine, but i will be keeping a good eye on them in the next coming months. If they dont feck up from my hard launches, the drive from ippy to toowoomba and back every weekend will.

Marc
its not hte hard launches that'll kill em on their own i dont think....the fact that they are rubber and perrish is at the source of the problem....dry weak rubber just doesnt like being pulled around

[boostedbatman]

...dry weak rubber just doesnt like being pulled around
Sell that to Ansell :D

[LordWorm]

Sell that to Ansell :D
hahahah I might just :)


Oh also running a sweep :P

$2 entry..pick the fastest quartermile time my car will run before the clutch ****s itself! hahaha

[boostedbatman]

Up your launch revs to 5k and I will forward $2

[LordWorm]

Up your launch revs to 5k and I will forward $2
Thats a little over "optimal" is it not? my rather ordinary drag racing skills wouldnt be able to control it i dont think...remember i'm still only learning!

4k with stickier rubber will do the trick though i reckon

[LordWorm]

Ok we tried putting the rear mount in tonight... was a bastard...had to move a whole lot of stuff around to even get to it...and then we found that 1 of the 3 bolts was jammed... after rounding it, demeling it, buying new sockets and alot of swearing...the decision was made to give up until I upgrade the clutch (which means the gearbox will be out and a pencil torch can apply some heat)

Disappointed....so I took the car for a big thrash on the way home to make myself feel better.... now i think i really need some new tyres :P

[chipa]

Ok we tried putting the rear mount in tonight... was a bastard...had to move a whole lot of stuff around to even get to it...
That's why I was happy to fork out $100 to let mazda do it during a service :P worth every cent.

Just had a look at them, they seem fine, but i will be keeping a good eye on them in the next coming months. If they dont feck up from my hard launches, the drive from ippy to toowoomba and back every weekend will.

You really need to pull the side mounts out to see if they have problems. When I broke the drivers side mount a visual inspection told me nothing, but after removing the mount it was easy to give it a bit of twist and see the split. The gearbox mount would be similar as it would be virtually impossible to visually inspect without ripping the battery and battery mount out.

Just for the record the split in my drivers side mount caused massive amount of tramp, and was fixed by my filling the side mounts with high-temp silicone 401. The difference this made I would guess to be around 40-50% of the difference the front and rear AWR mounts made compared to the stock mounts.

[platypus]

Just for the record the split in my drivers side mount caused massive amount of tramp, and was fixed by my filling the side mounts with high-temp silicone 401. The difference this made I would guess to be around 40-50% of the difference the front and rear AWR mounts made compared to the stock mounts.
just for the record it is illegal to modify engine mounts in this manner.... but yes it does work rather well!!

[LordWorm]

just for the record it is illegal to modify engine mounts in this manner.... but yes it does work rather well!!
tis illegal to do alot of things, but we do them anyway :)

[Melbastina]

Just doing some research on engine mounts (I love the search button) and I have managed (after reading this thread) to find these (http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=40)

What I want to know is am I getting the right thing to stop or at least reduce axel tramp or should I go harder/softer? I noticed Chicaboo said that he had 88's I think and they were harder than he cared for?

I dont think I hammer the car, but I seem to drive it hard enough to get axle tramp every so often.

Also what is the down side to getting harder mounts?

Does it just mean you get more vibration through the car or what?

I really have no idea, and for the record I have a 03 BJ astina.

[chipa]

I have the hardest ones (95 I think) and they're great. They make the car vibrate a lot but you do get used to the vibrations. At a guess I'd imagine even the 70's would make a good difference over stock. The main downside is the increased vibration which creates more rattles inside.

[chipa]

I would seriously suggest getting the side mount inserts as the drivers side has the biggest chance to tear.

Although its 95 durometer this would be ideal: http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=313

[Melbastina]

I wish I could go for a spin in a BJII with them installed to see what the dif is.

I'm thinking I might go the softer ones, cause like I said, don't drive the car that hard, def never track it, so gotta find a balance between better performance and comfort.

Say then, that I want to go for the softer ones, i'd be best to get these (http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=318) and then get these (http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=251) as well?

Thanks so much for your help!

[chipa]

That would be the go. Only thing I'm not sure of is the difference it would make if you just installed the inserts. I suspect there wouldn't be much extra vibration, but I'm also unsure how much tramp would be reduced.

[Melbastina]

Yeh, I hope that the mounts and the inserts will improve it over the stock set up...

Really hoping that a melb member will chirp in and take me for a fang around the block so I can see what the vibration is like.

[platypus]

i have 95 up here - loved them - if you can handle the extra bumps rattles and moans of exhausts, stiff suspension and cold air intakes you should be able to handle the mounts... they are all stiff regardless as they have no airspace like the original mounts

i also have some for sale as the car is kaput.....

check in the for sale threads....

[LordWorm]

Front mount alone cured some 90% of my tramp issues BUT my stocko one was completely shagged to begin with.

front and rear shoudl get rid of most of it....
95 durometer is what i'm running. Downside is much more in cabin vibration yes...but i see this as a plus because i get more feedback from the road about whats going on.

[boostedbatman]

Just remember Greggy that only having one in will increse the load on the other so it will die exponentially. I recommend getting the other ASAP or you will have a great chance of ripping it to bits
Just ask twiggy what my rear mount looked like and yours may look like that soon enough

[chicaboo]

I used to run the side inserts with 88duro AWR front and rear. This would give me cabin vibration up to 1400rpm, and exagerate the clutch shudder up to 1800~1900rpm.

I am now running inserts all around. The AWR side inserts are reasonably soft, but the Corksport front and rear inserts are about as hard as Kartboy shifter bushings, ie:very. So there is still cabin vibration up to 850~900rpm, but car idles at 750rpm. :p Clutch shudder is still exagerated, but nowhere near as bad.

You don't really need side inserts, but they do decrease the up/down movement on the gearbox/diff side of the car, and the other insert helps save the r/h mount from premature tearing if nothing else.

Platherpus is selling his 95's, and my 88's are sitting around too. So there's some options. But you could just get side inserts from AWR and front and rear inserts from RR-Racing or Corksport. RR-Racing inserts look a bit softer than those from Corksport.

Gav.

[LordWorm]

Just remember Greggy that only having one in will increse the load on the other so it will die exponentially. I recommend getting the other ASAP or you will have a great chance of ripping it to bits
Just ask twiggy what my rear mount looked like and yours may look like that soon enough
Yeh realise that mate... just gotta wait till i do the clutch to do the rear... cos one of hte bolts is loctited or seazed up or something... gotta get at it with pencil torch or weld a socket to it or something to get the bastard off...

[nimrods86]

or just drill the head off it
that's wat i do when i can't get a bolt or screw out
messy an time consuming but it does the trick an is quite releaving

[LordWorm]

or just drill the head off it
that's wat i do when i can't get a bolt or screw out
messy an time consuming but it does the trick an is quite releaving
sorry, meant the Nut is loctited to the bolt... bolt is welded to the chassis.

[platypus]

try using a bit of muscles dude.... you'll need a decent breaker bar - it also coated with everybit of road grime dust and oil thats leaked from your oil filter.... in short i'm not surprised its stiff

[chicaboo]

try using a bit of muscles dude.... you'll need a decent breaker bar - it also coated with everybit of road grime dust and oil thats leaked from your oil filter.... in short i'm not surprised its stiff
We used a 4-5' long aluminium tube to do mine remember. :cool:

[LordWorm]

try using a bit of muscles dude.... you'll need a decent breaker bar - it also coated with everybit of road grime dust and oil thats leaked from your oil filter.... in short i'm not surprised its stiff
Oh yeh i realise why its stiff

but the other 2 were stiff and witha bit of elboe grease came off...

The 3rd one...well...3 of us each had a go with a torque wrench, and after grinding the nut down several sizes after rounding it off, we put the other 2 back in and called it a night.

Pencil torch will hopefully free it up a bit, and with the GB out to do the clutch, we SHOULD have a better go at getting at the thing.

[platypus]

i thought a torque wrench was for measuring torques

and are you using square cut sockets per chance?

also are they long enough to hold the nut fully while still remaining parrallel to the bolt thread?

[LordWorm]

i thought a torque wrench was for measuring torques

and are you using square cut sockets per chance?

also are they long enough to hold the nut fully while still remaining parrallel to the bolt thread?
Useful also because its long enough to get a fair handle on so you can wrench the thing off.

Yes square cut sockets
yes long enough
position is alkward.
Andrew Jared and I spent a good couple of hours chewing away at it. If you think you can get it off you are more then welcome to come and try :)

[platypus]

Andrew Jared and I spent a good couple of hours chewing away at it. If you think you can get it off you are more then welcome to come and try :)would but got a lot happening with the bub etc... but hey if you organise a time to come round i'll show you a trick to it...

umm also on that sorry i shouldn't have said square... all sockets are square..

six point or double hex? double hex i found slip a lot less, even at odd angles

deep sockets are easiest, but not 100% necessary

i have a 1.5m rio bar that i use on my breaker... reckon that could deliver the force you need?

only thing i don't have here is the extension bars - bring some with 1/2" square drive and i'll help ya out....

[chicaboo]

Meh, he just needs Chicaboo force...

[LordWorm]

would but got a lot happening with the bub etc... but hey if you organise a time to come round i'll show you a trick to it...

umm also on that sorry i shouldn't have said square... all sockets are square..

six point or double hex? double hex i found slip a lot less, even at odd angles

deep sockets are easiest, but not 100% necessary

i have a 1.5m rio bar that i use on my breaker... reckon that could deliver the force you need?

only thing i don't have here is the extension bars - bring some with 1/2" square drive and i'll help ya out....

Yeh might do... see thing is, the thing wont budge... i dont know that any amount of force delievered from any amount of leverage is going to budge it... i think it started off as a 12mm nut? its down to like 8 now... we even ground it in between sizes then hammered a socket onto it (didn't think that'd let go once it was on!) but still, rounded the sh!t out of the nut...

I think getting at it from the top isnt the best way to go... with gearbox out when clutch goes in it *should* be a hell of alot easier to get at....

But yeh if you wanna give it a bash, you are more then welcome to :P

[LordWorm]

Meh, he just needs Chicaboo force...
I think it was put on with chicaboo force to begin with....

[platypus]

you didn't mention grinding it down that far...

it that case you need a nut breaker... good luck getting that in there

still under warranty? dunno what they can do there.. but meh

[LordWorm]

you didn't mention grinding it down that far...

it that case you need a nut breaker... good luck getting that in there

still under warranty? dunno what they can do there.. but meh
warrenty? nope... 2002 model second hand SP20 :p

haha

pencil torch with gearbox out, and a better angle on it is the way out methinks.


if that fails, we'll weld a socket to the nut and see how it likes that :cool:

[twilightprotege]

i dont think it went down to an 8. 14 to start with down to a 12 or something