$700 Speeding Fine could've been spent better elsewhere!!!

[project.r.racing]

As most of the Queensland peps know. I raced a police car a few weeks back on a friday night. This ended up costing me $700, 8 demerit points and a 6 month suspension. As usual i have got the suspension lifted. But the $700 and demerit point still stand.

But this had got me thinking. The $700 could have been spend elsewhere alot better than a nasty big fine.

Willowbank raceway costs $38 to run at each time. If you divide the $700 by $38 is equals 18 visits to the drag strip with cash left over.

Moral of the story - go racing legally on the track or strip and it'll save you money, points and you get to keep your license also.

Ryan

[pr1mo]

$700 could have bought you a decent motor scooter had they upheld the suspension but lifted the fine.

[ATOMIC]

$700 could of got you your front bumper painted! (If it hasn't been painted already) :P

[project.r.racing]

$700 could of got you your front bumper painted! (If it hasn't been painted already) :P smart arse - but so very true

[Melbastina]

How did you come to be racing a police car?

[sandman_kar]

hahaha yeh fess up??

[andrewgrazier]

more like $700 could have been spent on more NOS so you wouldnt have got caught by the pigs
:P

[mazdamanik]

why u gota be so direspectful to cops....they got a job to do and they are doing it, i no some are arseholes but if ur doing illegal **** u deserve to get busted....hell even i been busted but there isnt any reason to clal them pigs etc lol it aint the easiest job being hated by every P plater in australia:p

[Aaron]

why u gota be so direspectful to cops....they got a job to do and they are doing it, i no some are arseholes but if ur doing illegal **** u deserve to get busted....hell even i been busted but there isnt any reason to clal them pigs etc lol it aint the easiest job being hated by every P plater in australia:p

Gotta agree, (says me with 8 points down the crapper this year) They're doing a job, and well the laws are pretty simple and stuff, if you break traction, break the speed limit or act like a tool, a powered piece of metal you are likely to fall foul of it.

In my opinion most highway limits are 20km/h too low, and many arterial limits are too low, but they're the rules and the cops don't make the rules, if you want to change the rules you gotta get into the ear of the local politicans and somehow beat the bad publicity d!ckheads in cars give the rest of us.

Honestly, I'm ashamed of getting the two tickets this year, why? Becuase I never wanted to be "one of those petrol heads/hoons" and add to the statistics that our "group" has a greater occurence of offences...

*shurgs* Sorry for the soapbox, but remember when you need the police to do soemthign for you, they're the same guys you're calling pigs etc.

A.

[BigMal]

$700 could have paid for half a dozen hookers so you could have been a Fooking legend instead of a fooking idiot...

[project.r.racing]

$700 could have paid for half a dozen hookers so you could have been a Fooking legend instead of a fooking idiot... Maybe so Mal, but I do not need hookers like you, I do not need to pay for sex. I get the promo girls at work hang off my arms so I look like a fooking legend anywayz.

more like $700 could have been spent on more NOS so you wouldnt have got caught by the pigsNOS not required, read further down.

why u gota be so direspectful to cops....they got a job to do and they are doing it, i no some are arseholes but if ur doing illegal **** u deserve to get busted....hell even i been busted but there isnt any reason to clal them pigs etc lol it aint the easiest job being hated by every P plater in australiaI hope that doesn't include me. And yes I have no problem with the police, it is only there job. Simple theory I have - don't break the law and they'll leave you alone.

The way I came to be racing a cop car:-
Honda Euro Accord change speeds from 60 up to 80kph then back down again next to me in left lane. And a Mistubishi Magna and other cars in front of me. Couldn't get past. Honda kept cutting me off/shutting me out with his speeds going up and down. Then Honda cut into my lane without indicating and neally hit my car, just before a massive 2 lane round-a-bout. So I got the ****s after that and went into left lane and gunned it pass all the cars at 95kph. Left onto empty road with 2 lane and completely straight. A car with HIDs was chasing/racing me and little back so i kept the power on. The lights were slowly drifting further and further backwards. Was about 100m back by this stage. I start turning off at my offramp and slowing for a a set of lights. Next thing I hear is the siren and I see the red and blues flashing behind me. Oh crap... It's the Honda Euro Accord.

The only positive thing to come you for it was that he said, "Lucky for us that you turned off when you did, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to catch you." Her then further explained that he was following someone else and that he didn't expect my car to go through the round-a-bout or accellerate as quickly as it did. Giving him one hell of a catch up job.

Also said my car looked nice, then expressed sadness for me getting a ticket also. He was a really nice Policeman. His partner was going over my car, looking at wheels/taillights/height and he waved him away saying it was all okay. Then gave me the ticket for 140kph, wished me a good night. And asked me,"So what speed were you really doing Ryan?" I was going to give him the real answer but his speedo is out. Showing less than what he is really doing.

Ryan

[mazdamanik]

I hope that doesn't include me. And yes I have no problem with the police, it is only there job. Simple theory I have - don't break the law and they'll leave you alone.


Nah mate i didnt mean you, u obviously respect cops...otherwise you woulda got out and started bad mouthing the cops:p...i just dont see why young guys get pissed at cops when its there own stupid faults for being caught...i got dun doin 75 in a 50...wadsnt racing or anything was at work deliverin pizzas and we were busy so tryin to make up time...wen the cop pulled me over he was real nice and he only did me for 15kph and under instead of the 15 over, then we talked for liek 10 min bout his unmarked black xr-6 turbo and how fast it goes:p was really nice guy

[Tom]

only encounters ive had with cops are breath tests and once for drivin in a transit lane.. i knew i was in teh wrong so i didnt go bad mouthing the cop who got me.. plus it was a big operation, bout 6 cop cars and 10 cops pullin people over left right and centre for the same thing..

if i get pulled over for being in the wrong, its my fault.. and ill have to accept that.. if your gonna break the law, you have to be prepared to face the consequences of your actions..

Deejay i know you obviously accept that you were in the wrong, so you got what was coming to you.. atleast you arent one of those idiots who break the rules and get ****ty at the people who imply them..

[chicaboo]

I've only been harrassed once, a D car tailgated me coming into a tempory 80kph road work zone, where funnily enough there were NO roadworks, but the sign had been left up... And since he was tailgating me I thought I would just proceed at the regular set speed (100kph) and get left when I could. When I peeled left I actually gestured with my hand for him to pass, as he seemed to have been in a hurry and quite impatient up to then. To my astonishment, he then flies around behind me and then into the far left lane and get's beside me for a moment, I did not even look at him because I thought he was a psycho. He falls back a bit, I then eventually get in the left lane as I am turning off in 150-200m or so, and then I get the ellusive blue lights from the top of the dashboard.
Because the offramp was coming up, I drove the little extra distance and pulled up off the hwy where I thought it was safer (not much of a shoulder lane on hwy).

The first thing he does is abuse me for not pulling up instantly! This was some 30second delay if that I caused by waiting for an area of road where there was enough room to pull up off the road. I say as much, and he goes on about how he would've flanked my car with his. I shrug and raise my eyebrows as if I have no idea WTF all that is about. He then abusively asks if there was any reason why I was speeding, later on I kind of wished I said "yeah, this carnt was tailgating me and driving erraticly so I just waited to get left and slow down when I could". However, as I was most stunned by his horrible frontbum like nature I was more speachless and in disbelief over the whole thing, and the best I could stumble out was "N n oo o."

Anyhow, said arsehole gives me a ticket and farks off. Now, this is the kind of policeman, human, waste of space, I WOULD call a PIG! (and a few other choice words). This was 7 years ago, and the only ticket I've ever had thankfully. I have met a few nice cops in RBTs, etc. And I reciprocate the politeness, or moreover the conduct in which they are expected to exhert themselves with in return. The funniest part of all this, I wasn't driving a hot hatch with nice wheels, not my XR6, but a friggin 4cyl Camry...

Cop that,
Gav.

[mazdamanik]

lol yeah id hafta say buy the sound of that hes a bit of an arse

[FLiP]

yeh... the cops are ok... cept for when they pull you over for no reason... one of my mates was driving a saab convertible on his Ps for about 6 months... he got pulled over all the time and just so they could search his car... funny thing is he's into martial arts all that crazy asian fighting so he had a boot full of weapons... lol (he had to explain that one too many times)

i got done for 78 in a 50 in my dad's pajero just after i got my Ps :o

dunno what i was thinking, it was uphill too!

it's so embarrasing to know that he was watching you the whole time and you were oblivious to it...

that was back when 15-30ks over was 3 points and $208... (NSW btw)... so i was a timid p-plater with one point for nine months... it sucked...

they changed the rules since though... these days you'd get 6 points for that (i think) and about half the fine... that's ok if you have a full licence...

i didn't know the cops were cruising in accord euros... cool.

[AstinaBoiV6]

yer i always drive nice when i have like new commodores or falcons next to me as they are the usual undercover copcars or whatever but ive never heard of euro's ..... whats next they come in a camry or perhaps a 180sx that u just want to race lol... the 4wd with the backward snorkel is startin to annoy me 2.. anyway badluck ryan but atleast the cops wernt bein fags about it..

[BigBoyLemonade]

If the cop itimidated you get a good lawyer and you will get off.

[AstinaBoiV6]

yer but wont you then be left with a nice big lawyer fee and stress of going to court blah blah blah???

[chicaboo]

Thanks Tony, I did consider it at the time, but the way the system is designed, it's more of a problem and loss of income through time to go through such courses of action most of the time. Atleast that is my perception.

Some friends pointed out to me at the time, that he also didn't establish that I was a speeder, meaning, he was apparently meant to follow me breaking the speed limit for some period of time. As the workzone was brief, AND non-existant, I would've prolly had a case. Add to this I was going out of my way to be polite to another road user, which is what caused my problem.

In my case, the guy was a complete and utter sheep's-dag. If I acted like that in my work place, I would get fired. Hey it was a traffic violation forced by him, not like he had to draw weapons, but the way he talked you would've thought so...

[Astro Boy]

If the cop itimidated you get a good lawyer and you will get off.

Or write a really good letter! ;)

Here's mine! :p

10 May 2006

QLD Police HQ
GPO Box 1440
Brisbane QLD 4001

Dear Sir or Madam

RE: Infringement Notice – A 2697087 8

I am writing to you with respect to some grave concerns I have regarding the issue of the above alleged traffic infringement notice dated 10 May 2006 (copy included for your records).

Firstly, the location in which the above infringement notice remarks this alleged offence as happening has me at substantial unrest for several reasons. In a voice-recorded thirty-one second conversation I have of the issuing officer and myself, he clearly remarks when questioned about the alleged offence, “I was sitting in Rogers Parade East…�

Now according to the above infringement notice the alleged offence took place in the suburb of McDowall. This has me concerned for a number of reasons. After an exhaustive search of recognised directory ‘UDB Brisbane’ both the 48th and 50th editions, fail to find a location matching ‘Rogers Parade East, McDowall’. Bewildered by such controversy, my next step was to resort to well acknowledged online street directory ‘whereis.com.au’. To my surprise and agitation, an online search also fails to match such an address.

Unless the issuing officer was unlikely pinpointing more than one suburb at a time, his location simply does not exist, which brings me to my next point of substantial unrest, which is my alleged location.

On the night of the 10th May I attended a meeting at the clubrooms of a sporting organisation I’m involved with, and this meeting was held at West End. Now at the conclusion of this meeting (circa 21:50, to which many can validate), I had no other intended location other than home. Now living in Cashmere, I would only have traveled outbound along main routes, namely Kelvin Grove Rd, South Pine Rd, Old Northern Rd and Eatons Crossing Rd. At NO point in a transverse north along such routes do I enter, nor pass through McDowall, as alleged by the above infringement notice.

If you could explain as to why both the location of the issuing officer and the alleged offence simply don’t exist, it would be to the benefit of all involved.


Now in the second part of this voiced-recorded conversation the issuing officer concedes he was sitting, “…not this set of lights, but the previous set of lights�. Having been pulled over on Old Northern Rd outbound, just short of Collins Rd, Everton Hills, I set out to retrace my path. Intrigued as to where this mystery location is, I immediately return to this prescribed position, which although most certainly not in McDowall, does show evidence of motorcycle tyre disturbances, and will herein be known as the location. Of most concern is this location contravenes a number of guidelines clearly set out in the Australian Standards for Radar Detection AS2898 or Lidar AS4691:

2.4.2 Electromagnetic interference (EMI)
The operator shall ensure that the effects of electromagnetic interference are minimized by careful site selection.

In spite of the issuing officer clearly admitting he was sitting at a set of high voltage signal lights, thus susceptible to electromagnetic frequency disturbances, I set out to do my own examination of the location. Keeping in mind speed detection devices use a frequency close to both visible light, and EMF, what I find next shocks me.
Within a relatively small radius, I find:
· High voltage meter box Serial Number M2172;
· Six high voltage turn signal poles, all with one or more lamps illuminated, including two with less than four meters proximity;
· Four high voltage street lamps, all illuminated;
· Two further green power boxes, one of which is located less than 5m from the estimated location and;
· One set of high-tension power lines, adjacent to the location.

Further to AS2898, AS4691:

2.4.3 Reflections from stationary objects
The operator shall ensure that the radar beam is not being reflected away from the direction in which it is being aimed by stationary objects as this may lead to incorrect target identification.
NOTE: Typical stationary reflective objects are advertising hoardings, traffic signs, parked vehicles, metallic fences, sheds and phone boxes.

Further investigation of the location reveals that in a required line of sight detection there is more than one anomaly with this standard:
· One metallic sign, approx. two meters by one meter, “Queens Rd, Beckett Rd, Rode Rd�, directly in line of sight of the road.
· One further metallic sign, black and white in colour, approx. one meter by 0.5 meter in size, once again, directly in line of sight.
It is of my believe that one or more of the above disregards for stipulated standards, may have contributed to a reading, which, in contradiction to the speedometer in the alleged vehicle, has it going substantially faster. This is despite the alleged vehicle’s six-month-old speedometer having been required to be within a 10% tolerance above 40km/hr as laid out in the Australian Design Rules Section 18.

If you could provide some substantiated verification that it was indeed my vehicle being sighted, that would also be appreciated, as to date, I have seen none.

If you could further provide proof that such detection complies with the Australian National Measurement Act of 1960, I would be grateful, as currently I am of the belief that it does not.
In conclusion I would like an explanation as to how a vehicle can commit an offence in a location, which by all accounts, does not exist according to the infringement notice issued. I would also like a justifiable reason as to why the officer chose a location that has breached more than one guideline as detailed in the Australian Standards.

Mind you for all the above reasons I see it not unreasonable if you want to let it go, and close the matter here. However, should you wish to pursue the matter further, I am only too happy to discuss any further complications in the surroundings of a court room, accompanied by the appropriate legal professionals, at great time and expense to us both. Prior to such an event I would like access under the Freedom of Information Act of 1992 to both the issuing officer’s training record on such equipment, and a recent calibration certificate or similar of the detection device used on the night of the 10th May 2006.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing your favorable response soon.

Yours sincerely,





Greg Latham

Encl. Copy of Infringement Notice A 2697087 8

[chicaboo]

And what was their reply?

[andrewgrazier]

well the best part is that you got the suspension lifted so far
i cant really say anything good about cops
sadly its because i know who have become policemen, and of when **** has happend to me like when the house got broken into, n other stuff stolen, the cops simply just go yeah well that happens sometimes n thats about as far as things get fixed up.


ive just heard another rumour about speed cameras that most of them r being replaced
like all the digital ones are geting replaced cause they cant prove that the photograph is real and has not been edited.
n some of the ones with film are out of film
so they will flash but nothing else will happen.

[EddyEdwards]

well the best part is that you got the suspension lifted so far
i cant really say anything good about cops
sadly its because i know who have become policemen, and of when **** has happend to me like when the house got broken into, n other stuff stolen, the cops simply just go yeah well that happens sometimes n thats about as far as things get fixed up.


ive just heard another rumour about speed cameras that most of them r being replaced
like all the digital ones are geting replaced cause they cant prove that the photograph is real and has not been edited.
n some of the ones with film are out of film
so they will flash but nothing else will happen.
Hopefully that means the one at Sandgate will die!!! I fooking hate that camera.

[mrpayner]

Astro, that letter seems to be very well researched and written, a commendable effort!

[Cosmo Dude]

Only thing missing on that letter would be the words 'Without Prejudice' on the line before 'Dear Sir/Madam'.
It limits any implied liabilities included within the letter.

Else, good job. I will save a copy of that just in case.

[Astro Boy]

Well its still under investigation 5 months later, but basically, it was 84 in a 60 zone (4 points and $250), a month before rally Q at a time when i had to spend every dollar on rebuilding the new rally car, so simply to have it delayed was my main goal...

BUT, having not got a speeding fine in 2 years, i then got one the following week for 1 point... Now still being a P plater i would have either lost my licence or gone on a good behaviour bond, which doesn't look good on my application to become an accredited driver trainer in 12 months, so if i can delay having to pay it till after Sep 10, when i get my opens, i should be sweet...

The fact that the officer couldn't even get the suburb right left the door pretty open to have an attack, then it just kinda flowed from there! :p

For those interested its gonna cost me about $3200 bucks to get the required qualification even just to apply, with no guarantee they'll pass it... Hopefully completing the AAMI Skilled Drivers Course and The WRX Experience within a week of getting my P plates shows i'm serious about driver training, and having a state rallying title and genuine motorsport experience should help my application...

Basically you need a Cert. IV in Training and Assesment, which i'm doing through tafe atm, then you need to go up grade that to a Cert. IV in Driving Instruction, which some of the larger driving school can offer... Oh, and you need to have held your opens for 12 months... so i can't apply till i'm 21yrs and 3 days!!! :p

Pre-license stuff would be crap i reckon, so my plan is to grow a single car driving school business around the 'GSL RallySport' branding, then sell it and move onto advanced driver training, in either my own business or someone elses... meh, we'll see how it goes! :p

[skippy]

IS there not also some rule about the spped limit not being enforceable until 200m from where the signs started for the new limit.

I recall this as it made a lot of school zones in NSW totally redundant.

not sure if a resolution has been passed.



My first RBT,
I happily pull over all exicted about my first RBT, Knew I was fine,
Anyway,
IS that a en expired Rego, ?(Umm yeah the new ones at home its just around the corner)
Liceanse please, Here you go,
Where do you live, about 3 blocks that way,
how long have you lived there, 3 months,
Says here you a p plater, umm yeah.

OK so what have we got here,
$100 2 points no p PLates
$400(ish) no current rego
$400(ish) displaying old rego
$200 not updating home address within two weeks of moving,

FARK, your kidding.

But I'll just get you for the P Plates,




Dodgiest let off ever accquaintance of mine

Speeding, unregoed and unroadworthy car, Partially drunk, without a license and with a Large Bag of something the cops would be interested in in the boot

He got let off with a warning.
FYI he would be in court or jail if they opened the boot.

He told me just after I lost 6 points for 72 in 50 during double demerits, could of slapped him. shouldve



And nice letter,

[LordWorm]

Skippy: not sure about the 200m rule. Prob not, in Queensland at least.

Last time i went looking for the definition of "hooning" i found nothing in the legislations that gave the specifics of how they could fine you , and what they could fine you for. They can get you for "suspected" street racing...not even actual proven dragging off the lights...nope, just suspected street racing. Which means that every single skyline owner in brisbane probably gets booked everytime they take their car down the road to get a loaf of bread!.

Not making any excuses for Ryan here (that was a little silly mate..), but the police have powers with regards to "hoons" and "street racers" that defy logic and reasoning. THAT irritates me. I've got no probs with the police doing their jobs, but when the "laws" they are asked to enforce are purely based on the point of view of delusional 70 something grandmothers who watch today tonight, it gets on my goat a little...

[skippy]

Then it becomes a debate of letter of the law Vs intent of the law,
I think they write road laws so they can he as adjustable as possible,
Example who was that celeb/polly got caught flying in a sportscar but got let off cause he was doing it safely in a car designed for speed.


only road law I really hate is that leggally you have no right to beatup people who hit your car then drive off.


Lastly a quote I think of while I am driving,

Ever notice how everyone faster than you is a maniac and everyone slower is an idiot.

[LordWorm]

Then it becomes a debate of letter of the law Vs intent of the law,
I think they write road laws so they can he as adjustable as possible,
Example who was that celeb/polly got caught flying in a sportscar but got let off cause he was doing it safely in a car designed for speed.


only road law I really hate is that leggally you have no right to beatup people who hit your car then drive off.


Lastly a quote I think of while I am driving,

Ever notice how everyone faster than you is a maniac and everyone slower is an idiot.
oh its definantly something worth debating.. and i'd love to see what happens when someone gets their shiney new ferrari confiscated for "hooning".

the point is though, that you dont get to keep your car while you are disputing it. They can INSTANTLY confiscate your ride for 48 hours (more for multiple offences).

even a slight breaking of traction (such as chirping if your foot slips off the clutch or something) could be considered hooning.

Obviously none of these laws have been contested properly...but it stinks that with absolutely nothing more then a "suspision" the long arm of the law can take your car off y ou for 48 hours.

[MAztinA 323]

skippy: lol large bag
thats pretty harsh for a 1st rbt as well! but i guess they were doing their job

sorry for the slow pickup and for not reading half the posts here, but was the accord the cop car? never heard of an unmarked accord! i'll have to be careful the next time i go to eastwood :p

[project.r.racing]

sunshine coast have 3 new accords as unmarked cars. i can now spot them a mile away. they are nowhere near as fast as the regular cars but still can keep a good pace.

ryan

[Astro Boy]

i can vouch for that! ;) I've seen cops hanging out the passenger door of one with a gun...