New Qld P Plate Laws

[Beckie]

Reading through the Sunday Mail today (13/08/06 for reference)I saw the article (Page 4) on the new P-Plate laws to be introduced into Qld in July 2007. I've pulled out the bullet points from the article as a brief summary, but was just wondering what other people's take on the decisions are?

*Learners period doubled to 12months but age lowered to 16
*Learners must have 100 hours of supervised driving recorded in log books
*Ban on high-powered vehicles for drivers under 25
*New, two-phase provisional driving licences
*first year drivers to carry only one passenger under 21 between 11pm and 5am
*All mobile phone use banned, including hands-free and Bluetooth kits for first year drivers
*Passengers banned from using mobile phone loudspeakers
*Learner motorcyclists must have held a car licence for a year.

I think that most of them are pretty reasonable (particularly with my younger sister being able to go for her L's in 3mths)....

thought it'd be interesting to know other people's thoughts....

[Fro-Daddy]

i think its fair...although the highpowered vehicles bit sucks, they should also make it so you have to have done 2 or 3 defensive driving courses i think...

[platypus]

just a note some of this is old for other states... hilighting new in red.
the others have been done in NSW or VIC before (others i don't know)*Learners period doubled to 12months but age lowered to 16 (NSW 6 months)
*Learners must have 100 hours of supervised driving recorded in log books(NSW 50)
*Ban on high-powered vehicles for drivers under 25
*New, two-phase provisional driving licences
*first year drivers to carry only one passenger under 21 between 11pm and 5am
*All mobile phone use banned, including hands-free and Bluetooth kits for first year drivers
*Passengers banned from using mobile phone loudspeakers
*Learner motorcyclists must have held a car licence for a year.

[LordWorm]

I'd like to know how they define "high powered vehicles".

The age reduction to 16yo is worrying to me... given that studies have come out and said that age/maturity are a big issue, not so much how powerful the car is.

Two phase provisional is good - but would like to know what it covers. Max 80kph speedlimit restriction would be good but unenforcable. Requirement to wear P plates is a hard one to crack down on.. hrm.

100 supervised driving records is good as long as getting your old man to teach you to drive counts as supervised...would hate for someone to have to cough up for 100 hours of driving lessons.

Mobile phone stuff should be extended to everyone.

Curfew is stupid - many times in my first year of driving i was used to ferry family friends and their kids home after a big night at my olds. You telling me its safer for a Drunk 40something to drive his 4 kids under the age of 21 home than a first year P plater? riiiight


The high powered vehicles thing is straight up pandering to a media beatup. Power means nothing. Power to weight is the issue. What if the only car you have access to is the old mans V8 Commodore? wow, 300kW.... but alot of japanese cars make alot less than this, and are HEAPS faster/more dangerous to drive.

I dunno..their ideas are in the right place, just illinformed i think. I really REALLY hope these laws are not enacted retrospectivly (those who already have their P's, and have gone out and bought an RX7 or something should be allowed to drive it).

Also - they should impliment a new rule banning 4WDs and "SUVs" that don't go off road at least once a year. Oh and they shoudl be banned from carparks, and so forth.

[2brag]

Disregard my post LordWorm beat me by 1 minute :mad:



Whats the criteria for a "high powered" car?

[LordWorm]

Whats the criteria for a "high powered" car?
Probably anything with a front mount intercooler !!!!

or a BOV!!!!

or a 2.5in or bigger exhaust tip!!!!


really ... thats how stupid it'll get. Go have a look at the "reasons" why Atmospheric BOVs are banned... the argument is they blow exhaust gas out of the car before it goes through the cat.. no seriously. Thats the argument. .... morons.

Laws enacted by polys who watch Today Tonight. Thats what it comes down to.

[2brag]

I challenged a cop one day at a defect station in regards to the too low law, and he said it was due to the dipping of the car under hard braking....when i asked him how that comes about when lowering a car (legally - not cutting springs) you actually fitter harder springs he didnt have anything to say and walked off on me

[LordWorm]

I challenged a cop one day at a defect station in regards to the too low law, and he said it was due to the dipping of the car under hard braking....when i asked him how that comes about when lowering a car (legally - not cutting springs) you actually fitter harder springs he didnt have anything to say and walked off on me
Illegal lowering probably has something to do with venting exhaust gas into the atmosphere too *rolls eyes*


haha

honestly
go try and find out what constitutes hooning..you wont find an answer, but you will find some pretty funny powerpoint slides about why things are suposedly illegal.

[MAztinA 323]

i agree with the mobiles being banned for all cars

not so sure about the curfue, and the high powered cars thing is complete stupidity. u can crash an excel at 100kmh and kill your self just as u can do it in a skyline, i think it really comes down to age and maturity. if anything they should put progressive speed limits on people under 21 or something-like when ur 19 u go 90kmh, 20 100kmh, 21 110kmh... possibly..

and the 100 hours on your L's shouldnt be there either :P
so many of my friends are still on their l's trying to get 50 hours! in my case, anywhere i went (friends houses etc) i drove and ended up getting 94 hours.

Originally posted by LordWorm:
"Also - they should impliment a new rule banning 4WDs and "SUVs" that don't go off road at least once a year. Oh and they shoudl be banned from carparks, and so forth."

LOL its funny cause its true!!


also, are these laws actually going to be introduced? or do they think they will be? cause wasnt it in sydney, 'to be' laws from the rta were the most rumoured thing ever! the only thing ive noticed taht changed was red p's cant drive fastish cars. the 100 hours hasnt happened yet... correct me if im wrong about this last paragraph :P

[Fro-Daddy]

i think it should go on experience, not age...because a 22yo driver could have been driving longer than 35yo driver if he got his licence late...

i personally think that people would kill themselves quicker in a commodore than a skyline also, as skylines are of better build quality all round...

if you already own a 'high-powered vehicle' and then these laws are introduced, surely they cannot make you get rid of your car?

[skippy]

The High Powered thing,
Gotta ask which is more deadly on the road, a Flying evo or a Pajero trying its best to fly.....I think the latter,
To quote Rupe, Speed never killed anyone, its the suddenly becoming stationary thats the killer.

Which is scarier going round a corner in a BA Astina at 70 or same corner at 60 in an echo.



Split speed limits however are a total waste of printing time,
does anyone anywhere at anytime know of a single incident of a P plater being booked between the P plate limit and the legal limit without doing anything else wrong.

I can say for certain the only ever occasion I did not go the full limit was when a cop was following me down the road otherwise 100% of the time full limit and never had an issue.(I did three year Ps)


Age lowered,

What on earth, who here has ever thought younger people should be able to drive, its just stupid, I say older.
Generally age equals maturity, imaturity kills more then speed.

And with children maturing physically quicker but mentally slower it just spells stupidty.

[Plutonus]

Even though I dont live in QLD, I hope they don't bring in the speed restrictions there aswell. They are more dangerous then inexperienced drivers travelling at the speed limit. People are constantly tailgating you, getting angry at you, doing stupid things to get past, etc.

[project.r.racing]

BOV - vent air mixed with little amount of oil + exhaust... it doesn't go thru the cat converter, thats why it's illegal, emissions require all gasses to go thru the cat converter. even if all the emissions are safe or not.

i think the 1 person rule is good for P1 drivers. it is currently in force in NZ and death rates for under 18s dropped 35% when 1st introduced.

ryan

[LordWorm]

BOV - vent air mixed with little amount of oil + exhaust... it doesn't go thru the cat converter, thats why it's illegal, emissions require all gasses to go thru the cat converter. even if all the emissions are safe or not.

i think the 1 person rule is good for P1 drivers. it is currently in force in NZ and death rates for under 18s dropped 35% when 1st introduced.

ryan
You cant tell me the REAL reason they ban BOVs isnt because of the noise. I have no beef with them banning cos of the noise..put a noise limit on them and be done with it....

I think alot of these rules are unenforcable...and silly

The power rule is by far the most idiotic thing going

I'd much rather have 100 22 year olds "hooning" at or over the limit then ONE soccer mum in a Pajero trying to park her monstrosity in a shopping centre carpark.

Look the spirit of the laws is all well and good... the aim is to reduce casualties...but they fly in the face of alot of statistics, and most of the laws are driven by today tonight watching simpletons who believe that getting jap imports off the road is the way to get rid of the WHOLE road toll. How about they listen to the RACQ etc and sort stuff out properly instead of applying bandaid solution.
Fix the roads
Educate young drivers
make the age of getting a licence LATER not earlier (you need to be 18 to vote, 18 to smoke, 18 to drink, 18 to get a gun licence, but 16 to be put in charge of a 1000kg+ missile moving at 100kph...not smart imo)
require P platers to at least complete a defensive driving course before going to opens (better solution imho than a 2 step P plate system.....should have a basic competency exam to get the P plate, then a defensive driving exam to get your Os)
and go after the real problem - rich pr!cks in their SUVs that never take them off road!
haha

[LYNX]

But most of yous are forgetting that yous wont be affected by the new rules only a few of the Queensland members such as me will be affected :( which sucks in a way but by then i should be P2

[project.r.racing]

it'll only be for new licenses issued after the date of effect. current holders will be exept from the new laws. now with prep introduced, you will be 17 in year 11 so in years to come, licensing ages will be lifted to 18 / year 12 just like all other states.

ryan

[Red Frog]

hmmmm the mobile thing is a bit unrealistic, bcos there's a lot of ppl in that age bracket who needs a handsfree, etc setup for work

i do agree on the high powered thing. AAMI won't insure any1 under the age of 25 who OWNS a commodore apparently. so we're talking V6......don't know if that complies nemore.

but like james pointed out, NSW and VIC have had many of those rules in place since yr 2000. qld is really behind in this area - i'm not having a go, just pointing out the differences! promise! u're licencing system is still quite outdated. considering they allowed james to get a new licence is beyond me :D hahaha j/k nah, but in all seriousness, it's strange how there's not more of a national/universal licencing system, and y they're brought in at diff times. mind u, u guys brought in zero tolerance round the same time we got it.

slightly OT: i do, however LOVE ur anti-smoking laws!!!!!! now THAT is sth that the beattie govt rock on for!!! :D i was able to tell ppl the other nite who were giving me the ****s, to "kindly move away from the doorway" cos they were making us feel sick. wish we had that down here. i hate coming home smelling of smoke and having to wash my hair AGAIN.

[Beckie]

hmmmm the mobile thing is a bit unrealistic, bcos there's a lot of ppl in that age bracket who needs a handsfree, etc setup for work

i do agree on the high powered thing. AAMI won't insure any1 under the age of 25 who OWNS a commodore apparently. so we're talking V6......don't know if that complies nemore.

but like james pointed out, NSW and VIC have had many of those rules in place since yr 2000. qld is really behind in this area - i'm not having a go, just pointing out the differences! promise! u're licencing system is still quite outdated. considering they allowed james to get a new licence is beyond me :D hahaha j/k nah, but in all seriousness, it's strange how there's not more of a national/universal licencing system, and y they're brought in at diff times. mind u, u guys brought in zero tolerance round the same time we got it.

slightly OT: i do, however LOVE ur anti-smoking laws!!!!!! now THAT is sth that the beattie govt rock on for!!! :D i was able to tell ppl the other nite who were giving me the ****s, to "kindly move away from the doorway" cos they were making us feel sick. wish we had that down here. i hate coming home smelling of smoke and having to wash my hair AGAIN.

Hmm, I realise that Qld is behind in passing the P Plate laws, and with two younger sisters I guess I'm not too upset about the new rules.... they won't effect me too much anyway...but I thought it'd be interesting to discuss :)

And I know it's fantastic about the no smoking in pubs and clubs! Means I can go out let my hair down and not have my favourite pair of jeans reeking of smoke! (Also stops the amount of times I've been burnt by cigarettes on a dance floor...oh the scars...)

At my usual (stopped calling it my local because i moved to the other side of town) the smoking are is on a balcony just above the stairs, so inside the club is fine but outside the club is a bit shocking..... And I've noticed in the Queen St Mall a lot more people are smoking there...

[89sp1.8]

hey just wondering are these laws definately comming in? as in they have allready been passed for this date?
or do they still need to be passed and are just going through the process?
and im assuming 'high powered' vehicle will mean turbocharged vehicles,v8's and possibly some v6's?
also if a person under 25 allready owned a high powered vehicle..would they have to sell it or modify it to meet standards so that it is not a high powered
vehilce? or would this not apply to them?

also abit off-topic but the such thing as a 'work licence'. the conditions are totally unbelivable...
1.have to be on open licence(fair enough)
2. has to be on a drink driving charge
3.have to be over the age of 25...
now does this mean people under 25 that get charged (drink driving or not) dont need to get to work, or dont have useful carreers?

[LordWorm]

Just cos our P Plate laws are older than the NSW/VIC laws doesnt mean we're slow or behind the times.

Just because our southern neighbours want to go down this path doesn't make it the best possible way of doing things either.

I completely disagree with the vast majority of these changes, because I believe (and there are studies out there that support this stance) that they wont change a fcking thing.

These rules don't effect me, unless they enact the 'high powered' vehicle rule retrospectivly, in which case, any modifications make it 'high powered' (get on the transport qld website if you dont believe me), and my mrs can't drive a car shes half paying for....hangon - maybe thats a good thing.. .hrmmm

[skippy]

One law that should be put in nice and simple,

While on P's any more than 5kmh over the limit, lose liceanse for 6 months. No if no buts no court case no nothing simply your screwed,
that kinda logic works well cause everyone knows where they stand.

Knowing you can get caught once before you can possibly lose your liceanse means your alright to speed until you get caught once and then you need to follow the rules, this is not a good idea

Having that in your head while driving would slow people down one hell of a lot, if your a bit of a car nut would you speed knowing at any time your pride and joy could be mums car for the next 6 months?

any one opposed cause I think it is a good idea, dam simple and easy to inforce.

[skippy]

Lordworm,

Do my clear indicators make my car "high powered" in QLD terms, cause I might add that to my car ad.

[LordWorm]

Lordworm,

Do my clear indicators make my car "high powered" in QLD terms, cause I might add that to my car ad.
Yep mate
the rules say High powered vehicles i.e. V8s, Turbo charged vehicles, or modified cars.

Doesn't say anything about factory superchargers though...so i guess if you are a rich kid you can buy a Merc Compressor or something... Thats not high powered...but the local chippy's apprentice cant drive the turbo diesel work ute....

Your idea about zero tollerences on first offences probably has merit...however one thing i always found amusing is that you get less points on a P plate to lose, when you are inexperienced, and prone to making mistakes in judgement... but more when you get your Os, and are spose to be more responsible...shouldnt it be the other way around? *shrug*..people on Os should know better, and be given less chances..
anyway

Stupid rules.
Stupid stupid stupid. Each and every one

ban the pajeros. and prados. and ESPECIALLY those wannabe 4wds...(that ugly nissan thing, the rav4.. etc...).

[skippy]

Does it not offer a KW to tonne ratio or something as a test for high powered?

[MAztinA 323]

i like the idea of losing your licence instantly for p platers (ie u get pulled over by the boys in blue, 'can i see your licence please', they look, 'have a nice night now that your friend has to drive home' :P )
but i reckon there would be a heap of protest by p platers ~ mite seem a bit immoral to them.

my thai friend has a black series 5 rx7 13b turbo (on red p's) obviously insured under his parents name cause i was looking on aami and i couldnt get one of those insured until i was 25 or 26 or something! (trying out the age thing). me and him are 19 atm

oh one other thought about the instant loss of licence- i think everyone would be driving ultra careful and not as many crashes would happen, but do u think more crashes would occur like real late at night or in quiet suburban streets where there are less cops? :O

[skippy]

i reckon there would be a heap of protest by p platers ~ mite seem a bit immoral to them.

So what, stuff em!!!
I wanna smoke at work, on the train and in maternity wards but I aint allowed to for good reason, so baaaahh what can ya do but have a grumble and live with it,



oh one other thought about the instant loss of licence- i think everyone would be driving ultra careful and not as many crashes would happen, but do u think more crashes would occur like real late at night or in quiet suburban streets where there are less cops? :O

No I think less, as it is you get used to speeding just a bit over almost from day one of Ps, so if you get used to monitoring your speed you will get used to doing that rather than just following speed of traffic, and you will still have the knowledge that if you speed for one single instant you could lose you car for 6 months.

And if people following the speedlimit exactly slows others down, whats the bloody point in speed limits.

[skippy]

and how really cares what P Platers think anyway,

I mean they don't vote or watch today tonite,



and OT,
Your only 3rd I will have to show you how BF42 is played young sonny,

[platypus]

now does this mean people under 25 that get charged (drink driving or not) dont need to get to work, or dont have useful carreers?no that means that as a provisional driver you shoudl have more respect for the rules

[platypus]

I completely disagree with the vast majority of these changes, because I believe (and there are studies out there that support this stance) that they wont change a fcking thing.i mean no disrespect here, but could you please cite such studies? - i'm not having a go, but every study i've read previously swings the other way... mainly on the NZ changes and the Canadian changes (researched by independants as well as the Canadian government(which was the main bearing on the NSW changes)

[bourbon]

does anyone here realise that research has been done about accidents in australia..and most were of people over the age of 50 or 60...and most of those accidents were of turning across the face of traffic...i say GET THE OLD PEOPLE OFF THE ROADS!

[platypus]

does anyone here realise that research has been done about accidents in australia..and most were of people over the age of 50 or 60...and most of those accidents were of turning across the face of traffic...i say GET THE OLD PEOPLE OFF THE ROADS!
and you realise you can sway figures to suit your own purposes?

but in reality your looking at fatal accidents - and thats coz and old guy is gunna have his ticker go while waiting for help - the young ones fight stronger...

but younger people have more accidents at night (esp. late - faitgue?) and suffer more injuries (not resulting in death)

[bourbon]

i also reckon the ban on high powered vehciles wont stop any thing...cause the difference between high and low powered is the time it takes to get up to higher speeds... but who knows...all as i know is i wont be havin a turbo or v8 anyway...

[project.r.racing]

who cares about the high power rules anyway. you can buy a $8000 astina, spend $5000 on hoops and suspension, and then another $5000 on NA engine mods and it'll keep with any clubsport or wrx out there. that'll be totally legal in the laws eyes and be cheaper than a clubsport or wrx.

[LordWorm]

who cares about the high power rules anyway. you can buy a $8000 astina, spend $5000 on hoops and suspension, and then another $5000 on NA engine mods and it'll keep with any clubsport or wrx out there. that'll be totally legal in the laws eyes and be cheaper than a clubsport or wrx.
i read the media release on the transport queensland website - high powered car is any car that is "modified" according to them.

A modification of any sort can therefore be used by your friendly neighbourhood bacon patrol to book you if they see fit...another string in the "anti-hoon" bow for them...

[bourbon]

A modification of any sort can therefore be used by your friendly neighbourhood bacon patrol to book you if they see fit...another string in the "anti-hoon" bow for them...

seriously...watch how you state things...1 thing to do is dont bag out cops...

[LordWorm]

seriously...watch how you state things...1 thing to do is dont bag out cops...
got nothing against cops
got everything against over zealous traffic cops who exist for no other purpose then to bring people in for absolutely no reason and have the full weight of hte law to back them up.

Legitimate gripe. If you dont like it... well... you don't like it. I'm sure you'd change your tune if you get booked for driving in convoy with modified imports - because they can seaze your car if they THINK you are street racing (yep, no evidence, just if they THINK you are).

Any law which extends this already INSANE abuse of power is idiotic in the extreme. And those who use it to get their numbers and quotas up should rot.

[bourbon]

Legitimate gripe. If you dont like it... well... you don't like it. I'm sure you'd change your tune if you get booked for driving in convoy with modified imports - because they can seaze your car if they THINK you are street racing (yep, no evidence, just if they THINK you are).

Any law which extends this already INSANE abuse of power is idiotic in the extreme. And those who use it to get their numbers and quotas up should rot.

have you got proof of this???

ohh and just to let you know, im gonna be tryin to become a cop next year, and yes a traffic natzi...

[LordWorm]

have you got proof of this???

ohh and just to let you know, im gonna be tryin to become a cop next year, and yes a traffic natzi...
go sifting through the various legislations one morning. Oh and put aside a fair amount of time to do it, there is no "anti-hooning legislation" as it were, the information is buried in several different legislations...i wasted a good couple of hours on it....

some of the sheer stupidity i found in my research:

1. they can book you for driving at WOT off a set of lights, even if you do not break traction, or you do not exceed the speed limit
2. they can book you for ANY breaking of traction (unlike the NSW law which states a "sustained loss of traction"..i.e. burnout)... slip your foot off the clutch and chirp....if they want they can ping you.
3. excessivly loud volume of car stereo - now i know this sounds like a great idea, but they dont need to test for sound pressure or anything....

rules like this, and the STUPID modified car rules effectivly mean they can book anyone they like...lucky for us they wont target astinas...but people who drive skylines, or supras, or WRX's, or whatever in a respectable, lawful manner, can be booked, or at the very least hassled for their choice of vehicle.

of course these are extreme situations, and most cops would give you the benifit of hte doubt, but there are some out there who would have no qualms about impounding someones pride and joy just to get their kicks, or to satisfy traffic fine quotas.

giving any sort of additional power to the police, without a means of requiring solid proof is dangerous..and puts us on a very slippery slope.

good luck with the traffic nazi thing. Hope it works out for you.

[LordWorm]

i also reckon the ban on high powered vehciles wont stop any thing...cause the difference between high and low powered is the time it takes to get up to higher speeds... but who knows...all as i know is i wont be havin a turbo or v8 anyway...
something we agree on.

my largely unmodified 323 can drive at 140kph with ease... at 140kph, its just as dangerous as a WRX travelling at the same speed...the difference is the time it takes to get there, and the time it takes to pull it up.

if you take away the kiddies fast toys, tehy are just going to act up in less powerful cars - and end up in the same situations (if not worse, given its likely they would be driving closer to the limit in an old bomb, or low powered car pushing it for longer to get it to do what they want it to do).

Cars are not the problem - its pure drive education. Applying 2 stage P plates wont educate them any more...saying no to people makes them do what you dont want them to do in alot of cases. I do think a test prior to going open should be made law - such as requiring all drivers who wish to get an open licence to pass a defensive driving course as a minimum (once they have an understanding of how to control the vehicle and drive it comfortably, they can then learn "safer" driving techniques).
Extending provisional periods in addition to demerit points would also help (if you get booked speeding 15kph over the limit on a P plate, you get slugged your 3 points ,and get stuck on your p plate for a further 6 months)....

You can act up and behave dangeously in any car you get behind the wheel of. A car at 40kph in an accident can still cause pretty traumatic injuries or death (especially in a head on with another car travelling the same speed, when the impact is essentially doubled).

More then any other part of these new laws, i personally think the high powered vehicle restrictions are purely a result of (largely uneducated) public pressure driven by media beatups by david koche and naomi robson.....

The curfue is at least backed up by RACQ and NRMA studies from memory (seem to recall some RACQ dude suggesting it last time the media beat the issue of young "hoons" up...), although it still doesnt sit overly well with me...

anyway..thats my little soap box... not that it does anything really.....i think its high time alot of car clubs and communities started standing up and educating people that we are not all the reckless hoons we are made out to be...

[Fro-Daddy]

one thing to remember, 'high powered cars' generally have better brakes/suspension setups and would be safer at higher speeds if something were to happen...yes i know, some things it wont make **** all difference, but when you compare the body roll in a skyline vs a commodore when you quickly have to swerve, you can see which is clearly the safer option...

[skippy]

Firstly,
Who was the Polly/respectable member of the community who got of his speeding fine repealed as he was doing it on an empty road in a sports car? This sets legal precedent that a car that is built to go faster is safer. So slow cars do not make safe cars.


Secondly
Changing the penalty system, the younger you are the less you understand that big grown up word “consequences”. I think the consequences need to be clearer. Basically if you can die in just one incident I don’t see why you have to be doing something totally ****ing crazy to lose your P plates first go. Why the second chance? I just don’t get it. If you can die with out getting a warning why can’t you lose your license without one?
Make it simple, make it harsh, make it enforceable, and make it known.




Thirdly,
If rules are left wide open to interpretation and there is a budgeted amount of fines to be collected each year this will result in widely differing rules depending on who the cop is and how well they are going in making their budgeted fine quota (FYI Yes its a fact fines revenue is budgeted each year, so your cop station falls $10,000 behind target that needs to be made up somehow, no OT, no Christmas party dunno but it needs to be recovered)


Fourthly,
Who watched Top Gear Last night?
Well that had a bit on the Ford Transit, those big ugly ole transport vans. Anyway they where racing one around some track and it was taking over bikes left and right. A clear example that it’s the driver that makes cars goes fast not the car themselves. It is quite interesting I feel the need to clarify that??????????

Objects don’t kill people people kill people.
(Well until the Terminator comes around)

Control the people not the object,

[terninatortim]

I've got a real gripe against Today Tonight, not just for harping on the hoon thing so often but using bogus footage when they do. The last story I saw on it had its first 5 shots on cars at a SKID PAN. That's right, the story was opened with reckless hoons drifting on a racing track. They must have gone off to Mt Cotton or QLD Raceway or something to get footage, litereally half of the shots were from places like that.

Wasn't the first time they've done it either. Has anyone else noticed?

About the laws - in essence i believe in most of them, but the term for "high powered car" is far too broad in the sense of modification etc, but may also leave out old v6 bombs like falcons and commodors. Also, from a mechanical engineer's POV, this stuff screws up the market for low powered, FI and economical cars (eg new super-turbo'd VW).

Also, I don't see any point in having speed limits for P platers, having known family in NSW who have gone through that system. a 100 zone is a 100 zone, if you're going 80 you're holding up traffic. I mean, if you do that on the highway now, the police will book you (happened to a friend).

Personally, I'd like too see defensive driving become compulsuary, and why not have some cheap, if not free, drive parks? I know it might be an insurance nightmare or something, but you can't argue that they wouldn't be used. Look how much willowbank and QR is used, and they charge a bucketload. Having somewhere to go to try out stuff like drifting in a safe environment without emptying your pockets would encourage a lot of people to come off the streets, and at least leave those who do use the streets without excuse.

[bourbon]

if in NSW and you show your P plate or L plate im sure the cops cant book you for doin the speed limit your sposed to...but havin a speed limit of max 80 for a L is stupid not only do they not get the experience of drivin at 100km/h they are endagering others lives as people on 1 lane 100km zones get crazy if someones doin 80.

[Cosmo Dude]

if in NSW and you show your P plate or L plate im sure the cops cant book you for doin the speed limit your sposed to...but havin a speed limit of max 80 for a L is stupid not only do they not get the experience of drivin at 100km/h they are endagering others lives as people on 1 lane 100km zones get crazy if someones doin 80.
As someone who went through the 80km/h pain I was frustrated by being passed by everyone but people knew when they saw the plate that your speed was limited by law and understood. Having well and truly passed that phase I can now say Suffer in your jocks :p