It's alive!

[twilightprotege]

B3Motorsports completes our first total engine conversion.

From mild mannered SOHC NA Carby motor, to duel overhead cam EFI turbo. Donor engine is a Mitsubishi 4G63T from a Mitsubishi Gallant VR4 turbo. We dropped these 4 cylinders of fury into a 1992 Mitsubishi L300 Express Van.

With very minimal details on the swap available – as you can imagine it is not overly common – we are very pleased that we completed this conversion in good time, and on budget.

This is one of only a handful of cars to have this swap completed in Australia!

Particulars are as follows:

Powerplant
Mitsubishi 4G63T
Intake
B3Motorsports custom hard pipe and stealth front mount intercooler kit, with plumb back blow off valve
Exhaust
Full custom B3Motorsports turbo back exhaust system, with double dump pipe, 3inch exhaust splitting to 2x 2.25in axle back pipes, each sporting twin chrome tips
Engine Management
Microtech LT10S with Microdash display
Drivetrain
Exedy 5 puck button clutch

Car has yet to see a dyno but we are confident of easily exceeding 200 wheel horsepower on standard boost; an impressive gain from the 55 wheel horsepower the car pulled before the conversion, and should see this sleeper into the 13 second zone on the quarter mile.

Swap is completely street legal!

Pictures and video to come

[LordWorm]

Aka purpose built WRX/Falcadore killer.

Only in a straight line...it was a coffin on wheels around corners before we did the swap :)

[project.r.racing]

How can there be very minimal details if B3M did the swap? But damn thats alot of powah for a van!

Ryan

[LordWorm]

How can there be very minimal details if B3M did the swap? But damn thats alot of powah for a van!

Ryan

Details on people doing the swap before us. Its not documented in a how to like all the common swaps, so we were left working alot of stuff out ourselves - not a bad thing, meant we got to do it our way!

Main issue came down to the fact that the van the motor was going into was sort of "between" the SH and SJ models... basically we expected it to be a SH (thats what it says on the compliance plate), but it was sort of a bastardisation of an SH and SJ, which caused a few headaches, swear words, and throwing tools around the workshop.

Before we even started the swap we knew the 4G63T back to front, plenty of detail on that, but no detail what so ever on the van (who modifies a van??)! so we went in reasonably blind to the drivetrain issues, but in the end had very little trouble working it out.

Gearbox and diff are surprisingly strong (upgrades for the starion guys who routinely use L300 boxes and diffs in their conversions...so we didn't have to worry about some sort of exotic gearbox setup) - nice to work on a car for a change where we don't have to worry about the gearbox being a complete grenade....looking at you mazda!

Yeah, the modifications that were extensive, the list provided is a very simple overview - but basically we've played around with everything that was bolted to the engine, customized a stack of stuff, and spent hours fabricating everything from pipe work to brackets of all shapes and sizes.

Yeah its a hell of alot of power for the van - EBC is next, once we brace the open space in the back of the van (strong chassis rails, but body twists due to massive open space, think BJ astina on steriods) - so we're putting cross members and so on before we chase more power - the motor is good for 400hp+ on stock internals, and stock turbo has been pushed past 16psi (no idea how efficient it is up there).

The guy who owns the van is also considering a ford 9in limited slip diff, custom drive shaft and a few other bits and pieces to help keep all that power firmly planted on the bitumen.

[chicaboo]

Well, I might have to come and check the van out on wednesday night and watch the Spectre Of Darkness (http://www.spectreofdarkness.com/utubeteasersite.html)!

What plumback did you guys go with? I'm changing over to a larger 25mm in/out Bosch unit with larger piping so I don't have to listen to my moose moans from the curent plumback...

Keep it at 200whp for as long as you can so I have a chance against him! :p

Gav.

[project.r.racing]

If it's the same gearbox as a Starion, the keep power under 300HP/225kW as then you WILL start killing gearboxes. The current starion in the workshop with a EVO 3 motor in it is being mated with a S4/S5 RX7 gearbox (with sequential shifter) to handle the extra power. And of course to shift quicker.

Starion LSDs should fit straight into the van's axle but they are rare as. Finding a DoDo bird would be easier.

Ryan

[twilightprotege]

nah it's an upgrade for the starion :D

starion lsd's are as rare as, but 4wd express ones arent ;)

plumb back - it's a brisbane made jobbie, not sure on the size

[chicaboo]

Brisbane made plumback, WTF???

[Cincinnatus]

Main issue came down to the fact that the van the motor was going into was sort of "between" the SH and SJ models... basically we expected it to be a SH (thats what it says on the compliance plate), but it was sort of a bastardisation of an SH and SJ, which caused a few headaches, swear words, and throwing tools around the workshop.

Funny thing about mitsu wormy, i had a lancer, cb i think, but when started servicing it came to find that the front brakes were cc, as was the gearbox. Weird but mitsu seems to like tinkering mid model life. Great little POS but handeld like a dog.

[LordWorm]

If it's the same gearbox as a Starion, the keep power under 300HP/225kW as then you WILL start killing gearboxes. The current starion in the workshop with a EVO 3 motor in it is being mated with a S4/S5 RX7 gearbox (with sequential shifter) to handle the extra power. And of course to shift quicker.

Starion LSDs should fit straight into the van's axle but they are rare as. Finding a DoDo bird would be easier.

Ryan

As twiggy said, the starion guys goto L300 gearboxes as a matter of course...apparently good for 350 horsepower, as with the diff.

Theres a few LSD options, 4wd express, modified scorpion diff and a few others....but ford 9in with decent axles will make the driveline nigh on indestructable for what it is going to be doing.

Good lil car, can't wait to take it for a splat around the northside tonight!

[LordWorm]

couple of days late, but we finally got it on the road last night...

its a weapon....

the power on tap is just insane - feels like a completely different car (as it should).

twiggy can fill in some more details - but holy sh!t...never thought the fastest car i've ever driven would turn out to be a mitsu commercial van :)

[Aaron]

Was this the thing built using the collective wisdom of PerformanceForums?

A.

[LordWorm]

Was this the thing built using the collective wisdom of PerformanceForums?

A.

Was built with a few pointers from Todd, the guy on the performance forums who did the swap in sydney with a EVO3 engine, but at best we got some "hints" from him, and no concrete direction on where to go with what.

i'd say about 90% of the swap has been worked out by ourselves as we went along, with the other 10% coming from other sources (largely performance forums).

Very different swap to the one done on the performance forums, we had an older body to work with which meant more mods to get the engine to fit, and due to budget restraints of the guy who actually owns the van, we had to do things a little differently (for example: rather than doing a new plennum on the IM to put the TB towards the front of the engine, we had to run a pipe over the fuel rail with a very tight 180degree to get it back onto the tb at the back of the engine). Also the engine was different to the evo engine to begin with - not by much, but by enough to cause its share of headaches.

[BigBoyLemonade]

There is one in canberra with that swap along with a toyota with a 350 chev in it... I thought swaps like this were common.

[LordWorm]

There is one in canberra with that swap along with a toyota with a 350 chev in it... I thought swaps like this were common.

the swap isn't that common, turbo charging the existing motor is fairly common (place in sydney does it for tradies mostly - L300 is pretty gutless, add a stack of tools to the back and you've got a recipe for apprentice getting out and pushing to help it up hills.). I know of a V8 into L300 with nitrous conversion, but the vr4/evo swap isn't that common - and certainly nowhere near as common as BPT into BG or BA etc, and definantly not "the done thing" in qld...........

[2brag]

Come on boys, where are the pics!!!

[project.r.racing]

As twiggy said, the starion guys goto L300 gearboxes as a matter of course...apparently good for 350 horsepower, as with the diff.who told you that dribble? L300 gearboxes are weaker by alot!!!

Theres a few LSD options, 4wd express, modified scorpion diff and a few others....but ford 9in with decent axles will make the driveline nigh on indestructable for what it is going to be doing.and express 4wd diff will not work also.

guys - please do some research as you are going to be spending alot doing this, as some info is incorrect. save some money and get some proper advice.

ryan

[LordWorm]

and express 4wd diff will not work also.

does work, has been done previously on NA L300's that needed/wanted LSD upgrades.

express 4wd, modified scorpion diff, and others have been used on several L300 projects.

However, we will likely be going a ford 9in, custom rear axle, custom tail shaft etc.

[project.r.racing]

oops my bad on the diff - i thought some one said a L300 diff would fit a starion, and vise versa.

[LordWorm]

oops my bad on the diff - i thought some one said a L300 diff would fit a starion, and vise versa.

Nah L300 to L300...

4wd L300 LSD into rwd L300.

are you sure about the L300 gearbox too matie?

We've had several (not just 1 or 2) people inform us that the L300 box is significantly stronger than the starion box - and not just people mouthing off it seems, people making quite a fair bit of power....

Obviously we've had the box off - and purely on a visual inspection (i know thats not going to tell us much about whats going on when the box is under load etc) it seems pretty tough - lots of webbing and reinforcing - race angle on the gears is quite severe (almost straight cut) and bell housing and the box itself are quite thick. So I don't think the casing or gears themselves are weak links - where abouts are they prone to breakage? perhaps theres some obvious gearbox upgrades we havn't investigated yet.

Customer is pretty happy with the van at the moment (but he left the interior light on all weekend and now can't take it to work today to show his mates...hahaha) - tune is still a little "doughy" due to being tuned on the very safe side of rich - we should have it all set to go nuts at jamboree though :)

[project.r.racing]

yeah i'm sure about the gearbox - 5x starions and multiple 4G63s laying around the place tell me so. can get you more detailed info if u need.

[LordWorm]

yeah i'm sure about the gearbox - 5x starions and multiple 4G63s laying around the place tell me so. can get you more detailed info if u need.

would appreciate it...pm me if you like - upgrade path for the box is limited due to the shift mechanism (2 arm cable shifter) and box location (behind firewall) - so if you know particularly where the L300 box is weak, we'll target that area with upgrades (i'd highly date the casing would be a weak point, the casing is pretty beefcake, and i'd also doubt its the gears purely on visual inspection...so what are we talking? synchros? shafts?)

[twilightprotege]

guys - please do some research as you are going to be spending alot doing this, as some info is incorrect. save some money and get some proper advice.

oops my bad
*sigh*

sounds like how you should have taken some advice on the amazing D2 coilovers... how are they going anyway? hahahaha

fact of the matter it's a customer's car. he can choose what he wants to do with it. we'll give him the best possible information we can come up with at any given point in time

on the gearbox point - you say the l300 box isnt strong because you have multiple starion boxes and 4g63's lying around? yeah that makes sense. how many rwd 4g63's were there? how many of those were factory turbo'd? how many dead l300 boxes have you seen due to 4g63's from a gallant vr4?



anyway, pics coming soon. we've still got a bit of wiring to tidy up and then the guy will give the van a clean then it's photo time.

[chicaboo]

His flattie Dave had 3 Starion's one time I was there, the famous orange thing, and 2 white ones. I bleev one of the white ones has since been sold onto some EMS tuner/motorkhana bro, can't recall his name, an older chap, but he's known around the car curcuits.

I can't tell you about Mitsu gearboxes and engines, I wouldn't know them from a french tickler...
Gav.

[bourbon]

*sigh*

sounds like how you should have taken some advice on the amazing D2 coilovers... how are they going anyway? hahahaha

*sigh*

hows those synchros??? heard they love hammers ;)

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[chicaboo]

Hehe, pwn3d. :p

The bloke I was trying to think of is Rob Chapman I think...?

[KittyKatSmack]

play nicely boys....... :D

[project.r.racing]

sounds like how you should have taken some advice on the amazing D2 coilovers... how are they going anyway?they are going good as the coilovers you brought. a bit off topic don't you think?

fact of the matter it's a customer's car. he can choose what he wants to do with it. we'll give him the best possible information we can come up with at any given point in timethats good to be informed of correct information to pass onto your customer huh?

on the gearbox point - you say the l300 box isnt strong because you have multiple starion boxes and 4g63's lying around? yeah that makes sense. how many rwd 4g63's were there? how many of those were factory turbo'd? how many dead l300 boxes have you seen due to 4g63's from a gallant vr4?first question - no i didn't say that. twisting words wont win you any battles here.

they were sold and raced in nth america as dodge conquests, and as mitsubishis in japan, oceania, australia and europe. won the ATCC multiple time in the 80s as well as the 1983 Australian Rally Champion.

All of them were turbo!!! Do some research!!! Seriously!!!

L300 vs Galant VR4 - RWD vs. 4WD -> aren't they different gearboxes, where is the agrument with that andy?

*sigh*

[project.r.racing]

hey guys its dave here, ryan's flatmate. just want to clear a few things up for ya's..

starion boxes are stronger than the commercial boxes, the commercial box is the same internally as a scorpion alloy case 5 spd. they're all basically the same gearbox (KM132) but the starion has the widest gears out of the lot as the factory made it that way to survive the torque loading imposed by boost.. no one as far as i know has ever put a L300 box into a starion, that would be a step backwards..

also the KM132 is a fairly tough unit in whatever form it takes, u only ever hear of them breaking (they strip gears) from either **** oil quality or absolute abuse.. i have drag raced many starions for quite a while and never had a problem.. there is a fellow with a red GE sigma that has a built VR4 engine in it, usually see him at power cruise ripping 200m long burnouts, what does he use?? a scorpion box! yes it takes it. it all depends how u drive. u can do burnouts in high powered cars without damaging gearboxes, u just have to preload the drivetrain first!

i have recently completed a swap in a GC based starion, EVO3 4G63 with T04 turbo into starion, using the 4G52 (2LT) scorpion box. why didnt we use a starion box u ask?? because the EVO and VR4 engines use the narrow pattern bellhousing and small flywheel, the starion uses the larger bellhousing pattern etc so this makes them not interchange easily.. basically we had to swap all the selector gear over between the 2 boxes so the shifter ended up in the right spot.

some vans used the wide pattern, most used the narrow. i think it was only the 4G64 2.4LT vans that were wide. most guys with twin cam starions use the starion bottom end and gearbox with the VR4 head, thats what i'm doin with my new JB i'm playing with now..

as ryan mentioned earlier (slightly incorrectly) the RX7 series 4/5 gearbox is another option for those using the wide pattern engine. use a B26 carby type bellhousing to adapt it on to the engine, then fabricate everything else to fit. simple. way better synchro's than the KM132, and stronger internals aswell. tim over the road from my shop was doing high 9's in his cortina (bushpig) before he started snapping output shafts in his..

ps guys all the info u needed could have been found by doing a search in the technical forum on austarion.com, theres been quite a few van owners doing the twin cam swap that have had their queries answered there..

pps dont believe everything u hear about starions in other mitsubishi forums, ie the starion diff is in no way interchangeable with other mitsu's (other than the 4.6 ratio gearset from the front of an early pajero), the starion is an independent rear end, aussie scorpions sigma's etc are all live axle.. and yes starion lsd's are rare as rocking horse ****.....

[twilightprotege]

yeah, we have been looking on austarion...well i have anyway

the l300 we have has a narrow box and we're using a mix match flywheel and clutch combo to get it all to work. we're using redline shockproof gear oil as well.

[project.r.racing]

Moral of the story is - that you don't need to worry about the gearbox. Good news for all.

[outbakoz]

i'm so confused

[bourbon]

join the que