nOOb needing advice from those who know stuff

[70NYD]

oh man i wasnt calling u old, but u are part of gen x, where as im part of gen y. (i know that now, i speculated earlier the way mp3 players were described )

[Joe Bellissimo]

Originally Posted by DavoAust

i don't quite agree. whilst they arent high quality speakers without an amp you'll never get the power to drive them hard enough to generate midbass/bass. getting the cone deflection to create bass requires more power than most HUs can provide directly, thats why we use amps. hook a top end speaker up to the HU and you'll be in the same situation. for his purposes i think the amp should fix this. you can't expect proper clean bass without a sub

I can demonstrate a high end speaker running off a head unit producing more bass/midbass than a low end speaker running off an amplifier There are even speakers which are designed to achieve great results off a limited amount of power, primarily used as drop in replacements in BMWs and Mercs.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

mate, honestly u wont notice much of a difference between top end stuff and mid to midlow range equipment at MOST listening scenarios. IF you crank it ALL the way (like in a sound competition, but tht is mainly bass orientated anyway so nt applicble here) and nothing overheats/blows, the topend stuff will be clearer and crisper when it comes to tweeters and a little punchier when it comes to midlevel bass. what dave said applies fully.
at normal listening (not deafening and tinitius resulting) a computer might be able to tell the diference, but a human ear will not. my $120 JL 5x7 (not amped, running thru a bridged HU) sounded same as my friends alpine splits.. when we turn it up all the way and dc the subs, there is a slight difference, but keeping it at that level for any period of time will lead to loss of hearing haha

I beg to differ. Depends on what your looking for and what you consider better quality sound.

Originally Posted by pyromaniac11

no harm done in checking again, right?
:P just kidding!

Anyway, just a quick query..
for speakers: 6" splits - Kicker or Alpine?
for amps: 4 channel - kicker or ????
for Head Unit: Pioneer or Sony or Kenwood?

Just wondering what would be the best to look at between these options (or if you have one that is an absolute must in comparison ...then feel free to suggest that)

Sorry if this is thread hijacking...not what i intend

Speakers: Audio Development AD6
Amplifier: STEG 45.4
Head Unit: Eclipse/Alpine/Top end Pioneer

Never heard of the speaker/amp brands? Do some research. Those are just 2 Italian brands which are available in Australia which completely tear apart any of the brands you are currently looking at.

[comical_imbalance]

I considered starting a new thread, but figured I'd ask here...
Two questions for anyone who has some knowledge of fibreglassing, or has checked out robm's kickass thread on sub enclosures:

1)Do I need fibreglass mesh or netting?

robm's writeup links to another website where it is recommended that you do about 6 layers of fibre. My surfer friends here tell me that would make it over a cm thick.

2) So how many layers should I do? I don't think robm specifies in his thread.

Here's what I have so far:

.

[70NYD]

u want it thick, otherwise it wont hold the many cycles of positive and negative pressure created by the sub each time it works.. if the box cracks u might as well have a free air sub
and u would use a a chopped fibreglass matt

[asanga]

Originally Posted by DavoAust

i don't quite agree. whilst they arent high quality speakers without an amp you'll never get the power to drive them hard enough to generate midbass/bass. getting the cone deflection to create bass requires more power than most HUs can provide directly, thats why we use amps. hook a top end speaker up to the HU and you'll be in the same situation. for his purposes i think the amp should fix this. you can't expect proper clean bass without a sub

Its not the case! The speaker efficiency/sensitivity plays a big role here.
a system that will give you at least 95dB/1W/1m will have a much better chance of providing satisfying sound that something rated at 85dB/1W/1m. Most cheap ones are not rated or rated incorrectly for efficiency. Diameter of the coil, magnetic field, gauge of the coil wire, number of turns in the coil are all factors to determine the efficiency.

it takes twice the power to achieve a given sound pressure level from a speaker compared to one with a sensitivity rated at 3dB less. Every time you turn it up and make it 3dB louder, you're using twice the power.

An inefficient speaker system (cheap) rated at 81dB/1W/1m needs over 300 Watts to provide the same sound pressure level as can be achieved by using a system rated at 102dB/1W/1m (high end) and only 4 Watts of amplifier power.

Surely an amplifier will drive the speaker system within its frequency range at a certain dB level but the most important thing in a speaker's frequency performance is not its width or range, but whether it's capable of reproducing all the audible frequencies at the same volume at which they were recorded. A low end system will produce flat response(reproduces all musically relevant tones at the same volume)

Originally Posted by Joe Bellissimo

I can demonstrate a high end speaker running off a head unit producing more bass/midbass than a low end speaker running off an amplifier

I agree......... with good quality speaker system you can achieve satisfying results without a need of a amplifier.

[project.r.racing]

Originally Posted by phildough

Last time i checked 34 wasn't young but certainly wasn't old!!

See you at lawn bowls next weekend buddy.

On topic - As said before, the speakers need more power. Must be clipping like mad at high volumes?

[comical_imbalance]

Hey all

Well, the amp is in, and my front splits are absolutely cranking now. The amp is an old V12 2/3/4 channel. I am running it as a 3 channel so my splits and the sub are amped. I have made a sub enclosure from robm's tutorial and will be posting pics of that soon.

But in the meantime, does anyone have any tips for tuning the amp? When it was installed, the guy said channels 1 and 2 were ready to go, and I would just have to tweak the sub gains when I finished the enclosure. That day has come.

The sub is working, but it doesnt seem to be working hard, and I don't think I can hear it properly. If anyone has any tips, I'd love to hear them. Here's what I know:
Amp is V12 MRV-F407
Sub is Eclipse sw7124dvc-t4 (DVC, 4+4)
HU is running at HPF 80, as I was instructed to do by the installer

**edited to add: There seems to be a HP, LP and GAIN dial that require my attention**

Any info, specific or generic would be appreciated
Cheers

[70NYD]

u dont want HP for the sub chanel, turn (if you can) the sub chanel to LPF only, if you have a switch to do so for the rear (sub) chanel only or if not if you can controll the rear(sub) chanels both HPF and LPF turn the HPF as low as posible otherwise you will hear voices from the sub. play with the LP dial untill you are happy with it. gain is obvious, more gain = louder sub, but be carefull, if the sub overpowers the speakers it wil sound crap and ricey.. higher LP dial setting means that the sub will respond to low - low range frequencies, higher - low range frequensies as well as some of the low end midrange frequences (midrange is usualy handled by the speaker cones so be carefull as SOME voices come thru midrange as well) voice coming out of a sub just sounds STRANGE. so just play with it on a song with alot of bass untill your happy.

[phildough]

To tune an amp start with the gain on 0 and turn the head unit up to about 1/3 volume so you can hear the rears which are powered off the head unit.
Slowly turn up the gain until the fronts are about the same volume as the rears.
If your amp or head unit has a High Pass filter you should turn it on as it cuts the low frequency bass from the speakers.
Then do the same with the sub amp. It should bet set to Low Pass (LF.LP...) and the crossover frequency set at about 80-120 Hz depending on the sub and how the car sounds.

[comical_imbalance]

You guys rule.
Truth.