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Old 29-12-2013, 12:18 PM   #1
TheMAN
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FS/FP intake manifold differences

This is just a photo thread showing the differences between the intake manifolds... they all function similarly but there are some subtle yet important differences

The FS-DE is infamous for the VICS butterfly screws falling out and damaging the engine. Why does this happen? Mazda officially blames incorrect tightening of the screws from the factory, but we all know it's bollocks after all these years as the cars get older and miles add up. The truth is, Mazda was frantically trying to sell as many of the BJ 323s pack with as many features as possible more than 10 years ago. They had to cut costs somewhere. The result of cost cutting is the VICS butterflies on the FS-DE. Mazda ASSumed that because they only made around 130hp, they could get away with the cheaper design.

Ok, so you're curious about what they cheaped out on. Let's show some pics...

Here is a broken FS-DE VICS intake manifold (courtesy of Mike Moss on toprotege.com)



There are dimples on the butterfly plates to keep them from sliding on the actuator rod. As you can see in the pics, the butterfly plates sits on TOP of the actuator rod, which isn't mechanically strong. Over time, air turbulence and harmonics cause the screws to either rattle loose or the butterfly plates rattle loose even if the screws themselves stay put. The holes in the butterfly screws become enlarged and eventually failure results.

A recall was issued worldwide in 2003 for the FS-DE and the European/Chinese ZM-DE. As I said, Mazda officially blames insufficient tightening, but I say it's just piss poor design. Mazda recalled all of the cars with these engines in the officially affected production range (we now know that there's cars outside of that range that had screws/butterflies fall out). The recall process involved removing the intake manifold and inspecting it for damage. If no damage was found, new screws were installed as a preventative measure.

photo courtesy of starscream at toprotege.com

For comparison, here is an FP-DE intake manifold taken with my cell phone years ago from work



You can see immediately that the vacuum tank is shaped differently and it is likely the runner sizes/lengths are different. But, what we care about is how the butterfly plates mount up. You can see that the butterfly plates fit through the actuator rod and are sandwiched by the rod. It is clamped down tightly by the screws. This is a strong design that can withstand years of abuse.

The FS-ZE also used the same butterfly design as the FP-DE, as was the FS-DE used in the MP3 (no mechanical differences except the intake manifold using this superior butterfly design).

The MSP also used this better butterfly design, but in addition, Mazda installed stopper plates on the outside around the actuator rod's rubber seals to prevent them from popping out under boost (over engineering as it takes more than 2 bar boost for that to happen)

The stopper plate is also there at the VTCS actuator rod (VTCS removed in the pic, stopper plate in pic to show where it would go)

The MSP also had clamps on every single vacuum hose to prevent them from popping out under boost (over engineering that's affective for people running more than a bar of boost)

pic courtesy of starscream at toprotege.com

as you can see, only the regular FS-DE had the cheap crap design and all the higher performing FS engines had better VICS butterflies, and the pics also show that the MSP had a special intake manifold designed for turbo boost... it also explains why despite the MSP being built during the affected production dates, it was not affected
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Last edited by TheMAN; 29-12-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 29-12-2013, 12:28 PM   #2
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thankyou, I was debating splitting the fs-ze manifold before install but this answers my questions.
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Old 29-12-2013, 12:28 PM   #3
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lastly, here's a pic of the specially priced intake manifold recall kit for the USDM FS-DE... there were unfound rumors in the past that the recall intake manifold used rivets to hold together the butterfly plates but it is untrue! They are still screwed on with the same cheap crap design and the only difference is the zinc plating type used on the steel parts... per EU directive 2005/673/EC, hexavalent chromium plating was banned on automobile parts due to environmental/health reasons, and Mazda chose to eliminate all hexavalent chromium from their parts to reduce inventory costs due to the globalized nature of the cars and parts they sell... the new plating is now the not as good trivalent chromium which is why the steel is now silver instead of yellowish (ref: Mazda worldwide TSB E006/07)





you can also see here only the USDM intake manifolds have VTCS, other countries do not have it due to lesser emission standards. There is no VTCS delete mod for the aussie FS-DE!


but does this mean everyone should eliminate VICS on their FS-DEs? No, because that hurts engine performance and fuel efficiency. What I recommend instead is using a good JIS screwdriver, remove the screws, put a good glob of loctite red on the screws and tighten them back up to 1Nm (per specs) and then if you want to be damned sure nothing falls out, tig weld around the screws to the plates and then tig weld the plates to the actuator rods.... that should last a lifetime
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Old 29-12-2013, 12:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM323 View Post
thankyou, I was debating splitting the fs-ze manifold before install but this answers my questions.
I have bad low res FS-ZE intake pics but I won't post them because what needed to be shown and said has been done... the FS-ZE manifold won't have VICS butterfly issues

anyone who have good ones or want to take good pics in the same manner of the pics I posted, please feel free to add to this thread
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Old 29-12-2013, 12:51 PM   #5
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is it possible to take out the fs-de rod and butterflies and swap it with the better design?
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Old 29-12-2013, 02:56 PM   #6
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maybe? I'm not aware anyone has tried it
just be very careful with the rubber seal when you pull the actuator rod out, the seal isn't easily replaceable and I wouldn't dare touch it, just leave it alone... the rod will just come right out once you take off the butterflies
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Old 29-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #7
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Some ZE manifold photos can be seen here:
http://astinagt.com/forums/showpost....9&postcount=71
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Old 29-12-2013, 04:41 PM   #8
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remember you should be using a japanese crosshead screwdriver with those screws, NOT your run of the mill philips screwdriver as they will destroy them!
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Old 29-12-2013, 06:50 PM   #9
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so does this mean fp-de intake manifold would be a good upgrade for fs-de owners?
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Old 29-12-2013, 07:02 PM   #10
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I don't know
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Old 29-12-2013, 07:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JDM323 View Post
so does this mean fp-de intake manifold would be a good upgrade for fs-de owners?
Don't know of anyone who's tried to determine.

The obvious potential difference would be chamber volume. Given the cam specs are very similar in the FP to the FS (at least in duration) doubt they'd have different runner lengths.

Not in the cost cutting world that these cars were developed in.
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Old 29-12-2013, 07:34 PM   #12
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the entire intake assembly on the FP is different from the FS, so they could have made it whatever size they want
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Old 29-12-2013, 10:14 PM   #13
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I can't remember how the Fe- DOHC holds it's ones in place but it would be interesting to compare- considering. It was the first to use it. Yet others claim using a F8 intake straight long runner gains. see if I have photo on file some where ?
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Old 30-12-2013, 12:18 AM   #14
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good read thanks
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Old 30-12-2013, 07:46 AM   #15
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the FE3's is similar to the B6 DOHC (in the Etude/323 BF) and the BP DOHC isn't it?
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Old 30-12-2013, 08:26 AM   #16
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Interesting, thanks for the info.
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Old 25-11-2015, 09:30 PM   #17
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A recent trip to the junkyard revealed the opposite to what the OP has posted. A 2002 Australian delivered Astina SP20 was there - and a guy was removing the head. I took the intake manifold and split it to have a look at the VICS butterflies. Found this........




As the photo reveals, the VICS butterflies are in fact mounted through the actuator rod. Not ON TOP as has been said. My question is, are all the Aussie spec FS-DE 2.0's the same as in the photo I posted? Has anyone in AU found that their VICS butterflies mounted on top?

Was there an official Mazda recall in Australia for this issue? According to the link below, there was no recall.
https://www.recalls.gov.au/content/i...mItemId/952855

Last edited by Jazzy; 25-11-2015 at 09:33 PM.
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