coilovers all the same?

[pat323]

awsome price for what they are. held up to me thrashing them around oran park.

[project.r.racing]

what model you got? V1?

[maztech]

How do they ride on the street

[pat323]

yeah only the v1's. they are pretty damn good on the street little bit stiff sometimes but i have them set that way. they can get alot softer than i have them set

[70NYD]

damn man that is a very good price esp considering how much i payed for myn.. lol oh well

[project.r.racing]

where are the pics pat?

[pat323]

just added the pics to my readers ride. i dont know how to add them to posts sorry.
i am pretty bad with computers

[project.r.racing]

poo, no front camber tops. back to the drawer board for me.

[Astro Boy]

Originally Posted by 02-KQ-LASR

this thread confused the crap outa me... in short is i worth buying some cheaper coilovers than more expensive ones? if they are the same, just with different logos?

Unless you're prepared to spend upwards of $3k on a decent coilover setup, you're getting a cheap and nasty damper insert in a fancy strut leg, and you'd be FAR better off getting something like a Bilstein/Eibach setup.

If you're paying roughly $1.5k, if means the value of the damper insert is roughly $400-500 (take away the springs, strut tops, threaded tubes etc). You may as well get some OEM or KYB for that sort of dollars. Very very few coilover setups under $2.5-$3k will have any sort of worthwhile damper in them, and a Koni or Bilstein will vastly out perform.

If you want $1.5k worth of dampers (that is, anything that's actually worth upgrading to) in a coilover setup, then you need to spend upwards of that $2.5-$3k range. Tarmac and gravel rally championships are won on DMS... They're certainly not won on street* Tein, or D2/G4/KCrap...

The number 1 thing that defines handling and comfort is the damper. $1000 worth of Bilstein is $1000 worth of damper. $1500 worth of anodized, height adjustable, strut top'd coilover kit claiming to have usefull damer adjustment, is about $500 worth of damper. Regardless of anything else, if you think $500 worth of [adjustable or not] damper shoved in a fancy sleeved strut body is going to out perform $1000 worth of Bilstein, or similar, you're having a laugh.

My experience is that no one lists that to that advice, because it doesn't fit with what they ideally want in their head, and they'll go and buy some cheap suspension, it will be hard, it will go low, and they'll think its the bee's knees, recommend it to everyone they know, the vicious cycle of cheapy suspension will keep on turning, and they'll never be wise to the fact of how bad their suspension really was because they never had something decent to compare it to.

The majority of cheap coilovers also run ridiculously high spring rates to compesnsate for their complete lack of high speed** bump suppression, where a softer spring (like an Eibach), and better shock (like a Bilstein) would yield both better comfort AND handling. I would always take a quality spring/shock combo, and use the change on miscellaneous products, like alignment or bracing.

The whole cheap coilover thing just annoys me, as it's just a band wagon everyone has gotten on. It's funny, because any shock that supports a spring is a 'coilover'. The new definition of coilover is height adjustability, and sometimes damper adjustability... both of which you can get without buying a 'coilover kit'. You can get height from threaded tubes, and damper from a Koni. Personally I'd still take a non-Adjustable Bilstein over an adjustable Koni.

At the end of the day, get what makes you happy. If you're less about any sort of performance, and more about getting the ride height and look you want, a sub $2k coilover kit may be more than enough for your. Conversely, if you're more about handling, then IMHO, I would always take a quality shock and spring combo. There may be exceptions, and the odd coilover kit that's up to the job, but in the VAST MAJORITY, like the D2's, G4's, K Sports, XYZ Racing's etc, this is simply not the case.

Tein would be the borderline, at least if you buy a set imported by Fulcrum you've got at least some sort of aftermarket service and warranty, and there is plenty of coilovers worth their dough. DMS is the one we've chosen to stock as it's made in Australia, and everything to do with it is done here, but there's also Reigers, Ohlins, Sachs etc. and a host of Japanese brands which will be available, alot of which will be decent.

All I'm saying is just have a bit of reality check with what you're spending your money on. I hope I've stressed the point that if a coilover kit is the same price as a known shock/spring combo, the damper inside will generally be of inferior quality/performance.

* I say 'street' Tein, because Tein actually manufacture one of the best quality suspension setups in the world, call Tein Gr.N:
http://www.tein.co.jp/products/Gr.n/index.htm
We actually looked at importing them, but each vehicle set is worth about $17k landed direct out of Tein, so we couldn't justify the capital outlay. It's such a specialised product that there's only a hand full of distributors for it in the world allowed to sell it (and Fulcrum is definitely NOT one of them!). It sounds expensive, but they're actually about half the price of equivalent Ohlins or Reigers, and it's just a pity that the rubbish coilovers that Fulcrum and Ebay sellers bring into Australia, give what is actually a world class motorsport suspension manufacturer, such a bad name...

** High speed, as in shaft acceleration. Not vehicle speed.

[project.r.racing]

Long way around to say cheap coilovers are crappy Nathan. haha

My next step in thing is to send my D2s down to DMS to have a set made up. Or go see Murray Coote (20min drive) and organise something.

[chicaboo]

What do you guys think of Bilstein/Koni inserts with Ground Control sleeves [maybe grind off perches?] and Eibach Racing Springs [4/3kg]?

Gav.

[project.r.racing]

I'd say thats a good package. Might wanna go 1kg heavier on the front if its a FWD track car. Or 0.5kg lower in the rear. But it all depends on the vechicle and suspension add-ons also.

[Cosmo Dude]

I'll be the first to admit that the Eibach springs on either Astina won't win me any 'street cred' down at Frankston Maccas but that's not why I bought them.
I really need to add swaybar/s and tune in the suspension a bit more on the hatch but the KYB 'NEW SRs' ATM feel a little jittery (too hard for the springs). I'm sure some of the things I have on the back burner will help ballance this out a little.

[Rupewrecht]

The Ground Control coilover sleeves and Koni Adjustables i had gave a better ride than the JICs i've got. But the Konis have to be regularly tightened top and bottom as they tended to come loose.

[70NYD]

hi dan is there a chance u could throw a photo up of your sleeves on shocks plz
iv allways been interested at how this looks/works but i never could find something on the net that looks decent
cheers

[Rupewrecht]

Nah, i never got any decent pics of them.

But they looked like this/were the same as this



Basically, you cut the top of your original shock off at the level of the spring rest, bolt the Koni in place at the base of the shock, and the GC sleeve fits tightly over the body of the Koni shock (which sticks up higher than the factory spring perch).

It means they're not really captive, but you'd have to get all four wheels significantly off the ground to ever have an issue with them.

The only reason i got rid of them was the lack of camber adjustment.

[70NYD]

oh i c that is very kewl
cheers for that bro

[chicaboo]

Originally Posted by Rupewrecht

The only reason i got rid of them was the lack of camber adjustment.

One way to get around that [on the KE and BF at least] is to add Cusco adjustable strut tops. Assuming they would mate up to the top of the sleeve... Basically you would end up with an expensive multi-coloured "coil-overs".

[Rupewrecht]

Originally Posted by chicaboo

One way to get around that [on the KE and BF at least] is to add Cusco adjustable strut tops. Assuming they would mate up to the top of the sleeve... Basically you would end up with an expensive multi-coloured "coil-overs".

Yeah, but they add 10mm to the height of a standard diameter shock unit.

[Ghoru]

wow getting new suspension sounds like a lot of work lol good thing its a fair way down my list