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Old 13-07-2004, 09:02 AM   #1
JynX
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ABOUT: BP->BPT Conversion Guide

Ok I want to make this thread and sticky it at the top so we can give our new members some form of reference for the common BP->BPT conversion.
(and stop the question being asked over and over again)

All those who have done the conversion can post up their dos/donts and we can all benefit from the collection.

For a simple BP-BPT conversion you will need the following minimum:

- Motor
For the standard conversion, I recommend buying a Halfcut from Japan. This will come with motor, ecu, wiring harness, intercooler and plumbing.
Any parts not used can be sold off.
Cost is generally around the $2500 mark

- Replacement Clutch
Recommend a single plate organic HD clutch for a basic conversion. Expect to pay around $350-400. Daiken is an excellent brand although there are others.

- Belts/Seals/Oils
You should always replace all belts, seals and lubricants in the motor.
Cost will be around 300/400 all up.

- Labour Charges
Any general mechanic can put do this conversion as it is as simple as remove and replace. Expect to pay anywhere upto $1000 for this. You will also need someone to wire the motor in using the standard harness. Your mechanic may be able to do it, if not any auto electrician can do it for you. This will cost upto $500 generally.

This will provide you with a basic turbo conversion.
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Old 13-07-2004, 10:16 AM   #2
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This is very, very useful. Thanks mate.
Anything you want to add about gearboxes? Maybe the difference between F Series and G Series and such?
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Old 13-07-2004, 11:01 AM   #3
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There are 2 gearboxes commonly found in Astinas.

G25M-R
=====
Commonly found in DOHC BG Astina SP and 94/95 BA Astinas.

Used with
BP-ZE (MY92-94) & BP-DE (MY95)
Type
5MT, FWD
1st gear
3.307:1
2nd gear
1.833:1
3rd gear
1.310:1
4th gear
1.030:1
5th gear
0.795:1
Final drive
4.105:1
Reverse
3.166:1
Differential
open
Shift mechanism
remote, rod actuation

F25M-R
=====
Commonly found in 95+ BA Astinas (possibly other models)

Used with
B8-ME (MY92- 94) | Z5-DE | ZM-DE & ZL-DE | FP-DE & (MY96+) BP-DE | ZL-VE
Type
ALL 5MT, FWD

1st gear
3.416:1 | 3.416:1 | 3.416:1 | 3.416:1 | 3.416:1
2nd gear
1.842:1 | 1.842:1 | 1.842:1 | 1.842:1 | 1.842:1
3rd gear
1.290:1 | 1.290:1 | 1.290:1 | 1.290:1 | 1.290:1
4th gear
0.918:1 | 0.972:1 | 0.972:1 | 1.028:1 | 0.918:1
5th gear
0.731:1 | 0.775:1 | 0.775:1 | 0.775:1 | 0.731:1
Final drive
3.619:1 | 4.105:1 | 3.850:1 | 4.105:1 | 4.388:1
Reverse
3.214:1 | 3.214:1 | 3.214:1 | 3.214:1 | 3.214:1
Differential
All open

Differences
=======
- Larger Driveshafts in the G25M-R
- Larger Clutchplate in the G25M-R
- Smaller Casing on the F25M-R (less webbing so less strength)

Notes
====
The GTX flywheel will fit in a G25M-R box but not a F25M-R box.


If anyone wants additions to this : please PM me.
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Old 17-07-2004, 03:05 PM   #4
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ok to start the ball rolling ... if i was to do a straight swap eg not change the turbo or ecu what kinda boost would i get ... assuming i put on a 3 inch exhaust to free everything up. would it be worth while upgrading the turbo?? im not after record power just something to have some fun with ... and keep mr insurance man happy!!
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Old 17-07-2004, 03:17 PM   #5
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Insurance wont care if its a peashooter turbo or a big T04B a turbo car gets
higher premiums full stop. If I undertsand what you meant by not change
turbo and ECU to mean using the GTX stuff then you can get 11psi and then
the ECU will cut the fuel. A 3" is too big if you dont plan to up the turbo you
wont be able to control/reduce boost so boost control is done by lifting up the
right foot which I can tell you is a bugger I always hit boost cut.
I was just saying to Jimbo driving back from the gong this arvo as I was
chucking it round corners and boosting in the straights that I still love my
car its a great mix of handling and nippyness.
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Old 17-07-2004, 03:52 PM   #6
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yeah thats basically what im looking for just a bit more poke on the straights ... well saying that what would a bigger turbo and ecu be worth ... would you have to do any other modifications to mount a larger turbo??
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Old 17-07-2004, 04:05 PM   #7
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Aftermarket ECU $2500 Fitted
Bigger Turbo and Manifold ranging from $600 up to $3500 for manifold, Turbo
and dump pipe.
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Old 17-07-2004, 04:07 PM   #8
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thanks mate ... that answers a few q's!!
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Old 17-07-2004, 05:57 PM   #9
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Do it in steps mate. Drop in the GTX get it working enjoy it until the need for
more comes along and then worry about going to the next level. Its taken
me 5 years to finally get around to adding a bigger turbo and aftermarket
ECU.
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Old 17-07-2004, 11:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Do it in steps mate. Drop in the GTX get it working enjoy it until the need for
more comes along and then worry about going to the next level
i agree with Mal here. i reckon u'll appreciate it a lot more if u do it in steps and can actually feel the difference that your money has made as u do future mods. jumping straight to the 'top' sounds like a waste to me as u have fewer options to take it to the next level without loads of cash thrown into the car. Most likely outcome is u'll get bored of it much quicker that way.

just my 2c
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Old 18-07-2004, 07:48 PM   #11
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Will have to disagree with you on a few things there Mal.

Firstly, a 3" mandrel exhaust is perfect for the BPT engine in standard form. Being a turbo efi engine, it doesn't really care how big it is, and I've proved that there is a difference from just going from a 2.5" muffler up to a 3" which is the same size as the rest of my system. The difference was boost coming on alot quicker and also increasing power in top end. I'd never go back to a 2.5" system.

Boost cut on the GTX ECU is 14.7psi. With running a 3" system with a pod filter you will find that you'll run boost around 10-11psi @ 6000rpm. In the lower rev range when you plant it you boost will be the standard 7-8psi and then go up with rpm. Better known as boost creep or overboost. Porting the wastegate didn't solve the problem for me either...although I don't call that amount of creep a problem because it never goes over it. I've only know one other person who has had problems with running a 3" exhaust...he fixed his problem by changing the position of the wastegate pressure feed to before the intercooler instead of after it like the GTX setup is.

Nate, you've got to upgrade alot your engine and control system than just ECU for put on a larger turbo. As the guys have already said, go slow and you'll never regret doing the conversion. Every little mod that you do to this engine, it will show you a difference...that's what I have loved so much about doing the GTX conversion firstly on my laser and now continuing on my astina. Upgrade as you go, eg, Fuel pressure reg, boost increase, intercooler, fuel pump, and then go the turbo and ecu.

My 2c
ROB.
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BG Astina + GTR conversion + Microtech ECU + FMIC + 3" pipes and Exhaust x 21psi boost = 12.168 to the power of 326whp
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Old 19-07-2004, 12:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
just my 2c
Quote:
My 2c
woohoo im up to 4c ...

nah seriously this is exactly what we need ... to let us newbies :roll: to the car game have some kind of idea we are up for with an engine swap!!

thanks again guys
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I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities
I THINK I AM N2!
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Old 19-07-2004, 08:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB-80E
Firstly, a 3" mandrel exhaust is perfect for the BPT engine in standard form. Being a turbo efi engine, it doesn't really care how big it is, and I've proved that there is a difference from just going from a 2.5" muffler up to a 3" which is the same size as the rest of my system. The difference was boost coming on alot quicker and also increasing power in top end. I'd never go back to a 2.5" system.
This is due to backpressure generated by the 2.5" system. What Mal is trying to say I believe is that if you want a std conversion which is smooth in power delivery (ie no cuts) then go a 2.5" system. If you can handle the boost cut syndrome, go 3" and enjoy the things you outlined.

If you are planning to go big with your setup, definetely a 3" system is probably best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB-80E
Boost cut on the GTX ECU is 14.7psi. With running a 3" system with a pod filter you will find that you'll run boost around 10-11psi @ 6000rpm. In the lower rev range when you plant it you boost will be the standard 7-8psi and then go up with rpm. Better known as boost creep or overboost. Porting the wastegate didn't solve the problem for me either...although I don't call that amount of creep a problem because it never goes over it. I've only know one other person who has had problems with running a 3" exhaust...he fixed his problem by changing the position of the wastegate pressure feed to before the intercooler instead of after it like the GTX setup is.
The dual stage behaviour isnt boost creep. The factory system has a wastgeate solenoid plumbed in which will open the wastegate at 7.1psi upto 5300rpms and then close again for a bit of extra punch after you reach 5300rpms. If you dont have that solenoid plumbed in then you wont have that behaviour.

You cant really put a figure on the exact point the ECU cuts as it will differ based on environment. Based on mals setup we have observed a boost cut of around ~0.82bar and this has varied based on what pump fuel is used. Obviously the GTX doesnt havent a MAP sensor so I dare say that there is no "static" boost cut. It will depend on engine load, air flow, 02 reading, air temp etc etc etc.

When Mal had a leak in his system, we experienced cuts at different RPMs which demonstrates the stock ECUs ability to adjust based on different conditions and hence saving your motor.
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Old 19-07-2004, 08:32 AM   #14
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I will try running the vacuum reading from pre I/C when I bolt on the VF12 this
weekend I have been running it just before the throttle body like the TX3 Manual
says. I dont know why I only get 11psi boost cut. Have tried changing the afm
but never got around to changing the BP26 ECU. I love my 3 inch in every other
way but when you launch with 0boost, have 4psi by 2000, 10psi by 3000 and boost
cut at around 3200 it gets a little frustrating. Flooring it in 2nd from a rolling start
is even worse. I did think the TX3 was the ecu that ran 14psi cut and the GTX
11psi but the drop in power negated its use. Anyway if it can be got around then
yeah the 3" is awesome. Between the VF12 and the Link Ecu in my cupboard
I will get around it eventually.

Question for you Rob the fuel pressure solenoid mounted near the dizzy both
Jim(JynX) and another mate have them removed. What is it ?? Does it switch
on boost to increase the pressure like an electronic rising rate and if removed
what is the effect constant high or low pressure.

Ta

Mal
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Old 19-07-2004, 08:50 AM   #15
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Question for you Rob the fuel pressure solenoid mounted near the dizzy both
Jim(JynX) and another mate have them removed. What is it ??
i was going to ask the exact same question today after noticing yesterday that dan has his removed too.

mechanically i think the only thing it could do would be to lower fuel pressure, maybe to improve fuel economy. Unless perhaps it can close and hold the pressure between it and the fpr, effectively seperating it from the manifold pressure :? ... but why ?
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Old 19-07-2004, 08:57 AM   #16
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So basically richens the mixture on idle slightly.

AS to why we dont have one, using aftermarket mgmt you have full control over the injection phase width so you tune around that condition.
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Old 19-07-2004, 12:09 PM   #17
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It only does it for 3 mins after a hot restart. Not on every time you idle....so yeah that answers that question. :wink:

On the same thing though, because the pressure is consistently low, what I did on my laser was left it in operation and changed the earth switch to that of the wastegate solenoid so that when the boost went up, so did the fuel pressure....I did notice a differnce too. The same can be done with the boost light, when the boost light comes on, you can have the fuel solenoid switch so that you have more fuel pressure on boost. There is no side effects as long as you use a relay to direct current. The only thing you will get is an error code in your ecu. Obviously if your running an aftermarket regulator, you don't use the solenoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JynX
You cant really put a figure on the exact point the ECU cuts as it will differ based on environment. Based on mals setup we have observed a boost cut of around ~0.82bar and this has varied based on what pump fuel is used. Obviously the GTX doesnt havent a MAP sensor so I dare say that there is no "static" boost cut. It will depend on engine load, air flow, 02 reading, air temp etc etc etc.
The boost cut I'm refering to is a calculated cut. It's calculated from the AFM and the Dizzy. The EGO, air temp water temp or any other sensor is not involved in the overboost cutout. So there can be an exact figure assigned to it. Whether that is what your analogue guage is showing that, well yeah, that won't be static.

So Mal...your cut that you are getting isn't a "boost cut", you have another problem, as to what, I could only guess. Boost cut or the calculated 14.7psi cut only comes into effect at 5000rpm (or 5300rpm, one of the two). If your getting a cut before this, there is something else going on. There is no difference in the boost cut from the GTX to the TX3 ecu. I've run both my cars on 18psi with no probs until i get 5000rpm :lol: ops:
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Old 19-07-2004, 11:23 PM   #18
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Got me. Like jim said when I had a boost leak the "Cut" was lower as the boost
at the manifold was lower due to the leak. I used a digital Blitz boost guage in
my turbo timer which records peak boost and kept on resetting the peak to test
and retest. This leads me to think of a non engine condition as ego, air temp,
water temp would not increase with a richer mixture. That is Why I keep thinking
AFM but as I said I have replaced it so if there was any mods done to the first
with eg adjustment of the cogs the 2nd AFM should have fixed that. Anyway the
link should fix the problem anyway.
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Old 20-07-2004, 08:32 AM   #19
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I'm hitting cutout at 5g all the time now in my car due to the increased flow of my exhaust system (VF10 hybrid, 2.5" dump off turbo and 3" straight through). Mr Microtech is going to fix all of my probs! :lol:
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Old 20-07-2004, 10:15 AM   #20
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That cut has been there since day 1 also, not as if its somthing which had developed over time.
Certainly interesting. What ECU are you currently using out of interest Rob.
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