4-2-1 exhaust manifold good idea? and question about gearbox oil

[Old Grey]

The first set of figure is the std engine. Peak HP 6800, Peak TQ 4700
The range says 4800 to 7300, which is pretty close to the peak TQ point and the 500rpm past peak HP shift point.

To improve mid range punch you need to lower the point where max TQ occurs. I would pick the 2nd or 3rd set, as they still have enough top end revs for overtaking.

You can't see it in the ebay picture but the collector is the straight bit of pipe after the last 2 pipes are joined. Use that much collector before you neck it down to the std pipe, or put a baffled box type muffler at that point. A sudden expansion of a pipe, like a box muffler, simulates an open ended pipe - where the exh wave reflects from - like the tail pipe exit .

The Total Exhaust System Lengths are the best points to put baffled box type mufflers, or if using straight through mufflers the length to the tail pipe end.

Those ebay pipes are smaller than I thought but the dia still suggests 8000rpm and the length 7000rpm

I'm more a fan of 4 into 1, or more importantly 4 into 1 stepped, but that is only due to more cars using them in Prostock.

F1 uses stepped, but totally insane ones

[Clean_Cookie]

I am appreciating the expertise. thanks Old grey!

[Old Grey]

Just for a matter of interest a 6500rpm(2nd on table) 4 into 1 straight pipe would be:-

between 1.314" - 1.439 and 26.4 - 29.1 long

but a 3 step pipe would be :-
1st step 1.314 for 8.8 - 9.7 long
2nd step 1.439 for 8.8 - 9.7 long
3rd step 1.564 for 8.8 - 9.7 long

and a straight collector would be
2.714 and 16.4 long
or a tapered collector
2.14 taper to 2.714 and 16.4 long

The first bend on a stepped header has to be a good smooth large radius, because the pipe is quite small, but a 4-2-1 can get away with a less than perfect first bend.

[tau9]

What do you think about this exhaust manifold?

http://pacesetterexhaust.com/91-96-f...t-headers.aspx

that ford escort uses the bp engine like the protege

[TheMAN]

out of production and crap
at that point, you might as well get the 94 only USDM exhaust manifold which is a tubular header design

[tau9]

okay then i'll ignore all ebay manifold. Better to get specific made to my car/needs exhaust manifold.

[HMT]

Originally Posted by TheMAN

at that point, you might as well get the 94 only USDM exhaust manifold which is a tubular header design

Have you got any more info on that?

[TheMAN]

http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/sho...haust-manifold

[HMT]

Huh, thanks! Looks interesting but really not like an improvement over the later oem design. Maybe except for the weight...

[TheMAN]

it's a big improvement over the cast iron manifold
IT IS OEM!!! it came on USDM 94 BGs only!

[HMT]

Yeah, i got that it's OEM, i just meant that the BA (and EU BG version as well) cast iron header seems to have similar lenght and diameter of "piping".
If you tell me that it's still an improvement, i'd be surprised but i'd have to take your word for it...
If I ever see one for sale, I'd like to give it a try and see what happens

[Old Grey]

Originally Posted by tau9

What do you think about this exhaust manifold?

http://pacesetterexhaust.com/91-96-f...t-headers.aspx

that ford escort uses the bp engine like the protege

You can see in the 4 - 1 dimensions I gave you, it looks half the length and a touch big in diameter.

Go to the exh shop and ask for a price made to something like in the pic with the dimensions 1.314" - 1.439" and 26.4 - 29.1 long, and a straight collector 2.714" and 16.4 long


If custom pipes are going to cost $1000, and you definitely want pipes, buy the ones off the shelf, just remember they will kill bottom end for top end power.

[Old Grey]

More crazy pipes

[tau9]

Originally Posted by Old Grey

You can see in the 4 - 1 dimensions I gave you, it looks half the length and a touch big in diameter.

Go to the exh shop and ask for a price made to something like in the pic with the dimensions 1.314" - 1.439" and 26.4 - 29.1 long, and a straight collector 2.714" and 16.4 long


If custom pipes are going to cost $1000, and you definitely want pipes, buy the ones off the shelf, just remember they will kill bottom end for top end power.

Yes, that pacesetter exhaust it's not what I'm looking for. I forget definitively about those exhausts...

I've been talking with some people and I've found someone that can make me the exhaust. they want around 800 EUR if THEY do the calculations, I have to ask them to make the pipes with the specs you told me.

If I change the intake camshaft you have to remade the calculations, correct?

I've been looking for this camshafts but I'm not sure if they will raise the peak power or just improve the power on mid-high range :/

http://www.camtechcams.com.au/maz_4cyl_1.8_dohc.html

Or better stay with stock intake cams?

Also I found I have two car mufflers in the exhaust line. If I remove those middle mufflers I can improve the gas flow and gain more horsepower (i know it won't be to much)?

[project.r.racing]

All those camshafts are crap. the top one has reduced lift and increased duration. i fail to see how it will deliver on its description.

Middle onw will scavage due to the larger exhasut camshaft. very high duration, and would be surprized if s pre 96 ecu could handle it.

bottom one is the only one i like looking at them. added duration and lift. but again right on the edge of working with post 96 ecus. so pre 96 ecus is a guessing game.

[tau9]

Originally Posted by project.r.racing

All those camshafts are crap. the top one has reduced lift and increased duration. i fail to see how it will deliver on its description.

Middle onw will scavage due to the larger exhasut camshaft. very high duration, and would be surprized if s pre 96 ecu could handle it.

bottom one is the only one i like looking at them. added duration and lift. but again right on the edge of working with post 96 ecus. so pre 96 ecus is a guessing game.

omg! I see all aftermarket stuff is pure crap!

Why they do stuff that is sold as high performance when it's worst than stock, I don't understand

Thank you for telling me to not spend money on camtech camshafts!

It's better to stick with stock parts! Is there any cam from mazda with more duration and lift (miata for example) or I just forget about replacing the cams?

My ecu must be very old because it doesn't have an oxygen sensor. If I learn how to do it I may think to get the megaskirt, one friend is installing a jaguar engine into a nissan silvia with a v6 jaguar engine and is using the megaskirt. I heard the map tables of megaskirt are not enough for most modern aplications but they will work fine on older cars with simple electronics or carbs, also MS will let me get rid of that crappy afm, go to sequential inyection and better ignition.

[Ice88]

Originally Posted by tau9

omg! I see all aftermarket stuff is pure crap!

Why they do stuff that is sold as high performance when it's worst than stock, I don't understand

Thank you for telling me to not spend money on camtech camshafts!

It's better to stick with stock parts! Is there any cam from mazda with more duration and lift (miata for example) or I just forget about replacing the cams?

My ecu must be very old because it doesn't have an oxygen sensor. If I learn how to do it I may think to get the megaskirt, one friend is installing a jaguar engine into a nissan silvia with a v6 jaguar engine and is using the megaskirt. I heard the map tables of megaskirt are not enough for most modern aplications but they will work fine on older cars with simple electronics or carbs, also MS will let me get rid of that crappy afm, go to sequential inyection and better ignition.

Its not that there crap. It's just that a stock ECU has a finite amount it compensates for and can deal with. Once the parameters go outside of its adjustment range it will either work (i do mean work in the sense in that it will run as opposed to run well) or not work.

The ECU was after all designed to work as is, with compensation for temperature etc etc. Not for people who start increasing compression, changing to ITBs, swapping cams etc.

There are a range of options ECU wise, ensure you do your research

[project.r.racing]

not all aftermarket is crap. maruha and toda are very good. the f-cams for example from maruha will work fine in a 323.

[TheMAN]

you probably don't want cams then because you have the better version of the BP... the non-catalyst/leaded fuel version has higher compression pistons and better cams... best cams from the factory until the NB MX-5 came out

mazdaspeed cams are also pretty good

[Old Grey]

Originally Posted by tau9

Yes, that pacesetter exhaust it's not what I'm looking for. I forget definitively about those exhausts...

I've been talking with some people and I've found someone that can make me the exhaust. they want around 800 EUR if THEY do the calculations, I have to ask them to make the pipes with the specs you told me.

If I change the intake camshaft you have to remade the calculations, correct?

I've been looking for this camshafts but I'm not sure if they will raise the peak power or just improve the power on mid-high range :/

http://www.camtechcams.com.au/maz_4cyl_1.8_dohc.html

Or better stay with stock intake cams?

Also I found I have two car mufflers in the exhaust line. If I remove those middle mufflers I can improve the gas flow and gain more horsepower (i know it won't be to much)?

Wow, 800 EUR, thank goodness I make my own. If their specs are the same as mine, it can't be that bad, if they are big like the shelf ones, don't bother or buy shelf ones. Maybe find someone else.

Pipes only change slightly with cam duration.

With camshafts you have to look at the history. In the old days every performance cam had near std lift with added duration. This was because the retainer would hit the top of the guide, and it was the safe way out. When we run a 0.500" lift on a 3SGE we cut 1mm off the top of the guide. Secondly more lift requires stiffer springs to control the valve, and with hyd lifters they bleed out with higher spring pressures. We convert them to solid lifters.

I know Malcom from Camtech, he's not too bad.
I'm no ECU expert, we always get them reprogrammed for big setup changes.

Pipes I made