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Old 12-04-2011, 12:29 PM   #1
323shades
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Smile 323 BA Cooling issues

Sorry if this is a repeat but,,,,

I have a 323 shade 1996 with a ba1800 engine. The cooling fans only come on when the Air Con is on. This means that the fans, relay and wiring are all o.k. I have replaced the themistor ( 2 wire plug ) as it would not go any lower than 1K ohm. New thermistor goes as low as 200 ohms as it should. The cooling fan still will not come on. I have been told that there is another coolant temp sensor, but when i unplug it i notice that i loose the temp reading on the dash. So i have not replaced it.

The dash temp reading never goes above half way, but my fans never come on either. The engine smells " burnt" so i know drive around with the AC on so my engine doesn't smell anymore. The first photo is the new coolant sensor that i replaced which should have fixed the problem, the second photo shows the coolant sensor for the dash. Please help


P.S how do you put pictures up please


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Old 12-04-2011, 03:04 PM   #2
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Use [img ] photo link.jpg [ /img] without the spaces in the brackets.
Heat never rising above halfway is completely normal. I've only ever heard fans come on once, 40degree day, crawling traffic, heat soaked from no clean flow of air.
As you say they come on with the AC.

Burnt smell are you sure you're not burning coolant or oil?
The burning smell I had was a mixture of oil and coolant dripping onto the exhaust and flash burning. Horrid smell :/
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:03 PM   #3
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Thanks Mikey,

Its not oil on the flashing or coolant...smells of "heat" if that makes sense.......I had the engine steam cleaned and still smells.

Im concerned about the fans as my local mazda dealler said they should be turning off and on minimum once every ten minutes if the car is 1) stationary, 2) at normal operating temperture

Thanks mike for your input appreaciate all the help i can get.

Regards


Last edited by 323shades; 12-04-2011 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:17 PM   #4
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the sensor on the front of the thermostat house is solely for the dash signal. the back one is for the ecu/cooling controls. so your fan is controlled solely by the back sensor.

you say both fans come on when the a/c is on? i'm sure one is for the a/c and one is for a radiator. so both activating at same time might be odd? or correct.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:31 PM   #5
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Outside of my guess in my first post I'm not much assistance sorry.
But I will confirm both fans run with the AC switched on.
Someone with a bit more experience with the sensors may have to jump in here sorry.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:45 PM   #6
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Yep both fans come on for AC due to the requirement for the super cool air in cabin, the fan located on the driver side is the AC fan, the Fan on the passenger side is the radiator fan.

I have replaced the back sensor and the radiator fan does not come on. Can anyone please help me

thank you
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:03 PM   #7
70NYD
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Check the wiring to the radiator fan. Both come on with ac and only one comes on for normal. The ac fan isn't there to cool the radiator directly it's more to create air flow for the condenser
Seems to me like you are not getting the signal to the fan from the temp sensor. That or it isn't required. Try warming your car up to normal running temp then idle it for 5 minutes or so at most. I know the smell you are talking about. Did you degrease the engine by any chance? Degreaser can take a while to burn of.
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Old 13-04-2011, 06:26 PM   #8
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I did have the engine steam cleaned about 2 months ago, I would be expecting the cleaning agent to have burnt off by now. The wiring to the radiator fan is all good. I placed a 500 ohm variable resistor in the (2 wire plug ) of the cooling fan sensor, and lowered the resistant until the radiator fan came on. I then removed the 500 ohm variable resistor and checked the required resistance output of the variable resistor. It was 100 ohms. At 100 ohms the radiator fan came on. I find this rather disturbing for 1 VERY good reason. The Mazda cooling fan temp sensor only goes as Low as 200 ohms. That is the manufactures specifications of the part. If 200 ohms is the lowest output of the coolant temp sensor and the ECU / radiator fan needs 100 Ohms to activate the radiator fan. Then indeed my radiator fan will NEVER come on. Which is "supporting" Mikey_something very first post. I find it hard to accept that the engine has to get SMOKING HOT for the fans radiator fan to start.

Can anyone suggest anything or has anyone measure the coolant temp sensor ( 2 wire plug one ) with an ohm meter on their own BA1800. I am VERY VERY interested to see what other astina owner have....!!!!
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Old 13-04-2011, 11:59 PM   #9
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mine will go on after 15 or so mintues after starting up/idling... i will measure mine if coolant doesnt fly out after i get home. tried changing the thermostat?
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Old 14-04-2011, 06:52 AM   #10
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You Must measure the sensor with it still in the engine for 2 reason.
1) Coolant will pour out of the engine if you don't,
2) The sensor will change its value very quickly once no coolant is flowing on it / passt it.

You have to measure it in the engine after you have driven it till normal operating temperature. I have put a photo up of the sensor and how you can measure the resistance by coming from the right handside. It it trick but it can be done. Ignore the writing on the photo. Used this photo to save time.

I look forward to your reply tc3 racer.

Thanks

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Old 14-04-2011, 05:42 PM   #11
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Why don't you measure the ohms on the plug at operating temp? If it's 200 (or whatever is needed to turn the fan on) then perhaps your fan is stuffed?
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Old 14-04-2011, 05:46 PM   #12
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I'd more say that the circuit that detects the temp and activates the fan is out of spec.

Wiring diagram time.
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Old 14-04-2011, 07:08 PM   #13
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkdust View Post
I'd more say that the circuit that detects the temp and activates the fan is out of spec.

Wiring diagram time.
Ny70 early in the post I mentioned that both the AC and Radiator fans are both working. Thank you for you thoughts though :0)

Does anyone have a wiring diagram of the ba1800 engine electrical circuit or Cooling system circuit ( electrical not mechanical diagram please )
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Old 14-04-2011, 07:16 PM   #14
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The simplest circuit that does this is a comparator I think. Transistor compares a variable voltage (caused by the thermistor) with a constant voltage (provided by a regular resistor) when one is above the other it triggers the output which triggers a relay which powers up the fan. The transistor or reference voltage can be out of whack. The relay is also questionable, not sure if the AC circuit triggers the same relay or if it has a separate relay that fires both fans on it's own.
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Old 14-04-2011, 08:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkdust View Post
The simplest circuit that does this is a comparator I think. Transistor compares a variable voltage (caused by the thermistor) with a constant voltage (provided by a regular resistor) when one is above the other it triggers the output which triggers a relay which powers up the fan. The transistor or reference voltage can be out of whack. The relay is also questionable, not sure if the AC circuit triggers the same relay or if it has a separate relay that fires both fans on it's own.
The cooling circuit and the AC are wired in parallel. As far as I am able to track back using an f-set all wiring leads to terminal connector then ecu. No resistance in plugs think ecu might be faulty.

Thermostat is fine as I have coolant flow in top radiator hose.
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Old 14-04-2011, 08:34 PM   #16
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I didn't mean stuffed not working I meant stuffed not working properly.. Do
Both fans have one plug or 2 plugs? I don't have the car here so I can't check iif they have 2 plugs, would they both work if you disconnect the plug on the Passangers side will they both work of only the plug on the drivers side is in and ac is on?
Like I said I can't check at the moment so that's why im asking this
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:10 PM   #17
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Each fan has there own plug, each plug has two wires.

If I unplugg the left fan the right fan runs when AC is on.
If I unplugg the right fan the left fan runs when AC is on

Hope this helps
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Old 16-04-2011, 07:27 PM   #18
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I would say the low speed or first speed on the cooling fans have failed try putting direct power to the fan to test both speeds . Is the car manual or auto . Other than that get the old wiring diagram out and start testing for a fault in a relay etc
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Old 17-04-2011, 01:12 AM   #19
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Well Considering your all over it.

Manaul - will have one sensor to activate a approx 94-96 degrees Centegrate

on a automatic you will have 2 - one for a 95 and one for a 103-105 degree 2nd speed
Both are always loacted on the outlet side of the thermostat housing.

Depending on desgin usually it's normally closed circuit on a mazda meaning if it opens or shorts it leaves the fans on permenit - but mazda did change this on many models.

On the auto's it's normally closed V normally open.

both should be single wire type earth to the car via body.

The thing is if your car does not overheat - you may no be gettign hot enough to need it to come one. another version of a failed thermostat
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Old 17-04-2011, 06:03 AM   #20
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well done lmfao another ff , see in all your threads you are a well rounded individual that thinks he knows everything or do you know everything
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