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Old 20-08-2009, 06:50 PM   #21
project.r.racing
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40W-70 FTW!!! lol

Indeed this is sus. If no burning and no leaking, weird for a 102,XXXkm engine.
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Old 20-08-2009, 10:13 PM   #22
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Wow, take your car to a mechanic, or something at least, don't prolong your suffering. and 10w30 isnt too thin. I run 10w40 on my BG! with 157 000 on the clock, i check my oil regularly and change it at 4000km intervals, and never needs topping up.
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Old 20-08-2009, 11:53 PM   #23
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Hey guys,

thanks for the responses... It's due in for it's 100k service anyway... We will see what they say...

Hope its not too $$$... But I've heard 100k services are expensive...
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Old 21-08-2009, 07:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavoAust View Post
LOL... if you think 20W is too thick ask ry what he was running. most BA's on here without rebuilt engines will be using 15W or 20W. 20W is fine for bottom end bearings, what will kill them is over revving. i think its the recommended oil for the BA/1.8 too

has the engine has its rings done yet? if not thats a likely cause, along with valve stem seals. 100,000km service includes rings i think
Davo, read ^^ chrisw & my thread on 0w!!!!!!!!

WTF WTF WTF???? 100,000 service needs rings? Well Davo, I would not be owning these things! Il'll REPEAT! The engine in my GT has done 175,000kms & I used 0w (not recommended but it ran it with very, very minimal blow-by!) Read again, Pettos said "10w is recommended oil FOR THE CAR!".
Maybe you didn't read that? Mobil 1 is 5w & has been proven to prolong engine life to 500,000 klms mate. I used to build race motors. The thinner the oil, the better protection. Engines suffer most wear @ start up! I think some of you guys need to research more!!!! Way too much foot-in-mouth-disease! We want to advise Pettos, not confuse the issue, huh?

You do not nead 20/25w oil unless your engine is a POS! I have used 5/10w oil in cars with over 150klms on them. No sweat! Btw, timing belts get replaced @ 90/100,000 clicks, not rings! Flucking Hell!
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Old 21-08-2009, 07:59 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by NaughtylilGT View Post
Davo, read ^^ chrisw & my thread on 0w!!!!!!!!

WTF WTF WTF???? 100,000 service needs rings? Well Davo, I would not be owning these things! Il'll REPEAT! The engine in my GT has done 175,oookms & I used 0w (not recommended but it ran it with very, very minmal blow-by!) Read again, Pettos said "10w is recommended oil FOR THE CAR!".
aybe you didn't read that? Mobil 1 is 5w & has been proven to prolong engine life to 500,000 klms mate. I used to build race motors. The thinner the oil, the better protection. Engines suffer most wear @ start up! I think some of you guys need to research more!!!! Way too much foot-in-mouth-disease! We want to advise Pettos, not confuse the issue, huh?

You do not nead 20/25w oil unless your engine is a POS! I have used 5/10w oil in cars with over 150klms on them. No sweat! Btw, timing belts get replaced @ 90/100,000 clicks, not rings! Flucking Hell!
from a tribology point of view there are three types of lubrication:
  1. fluid film
  2. mixed
  3. boundary

fluid film lubrication is the ideal type as the surfaces are completly seperated by the lubricating fluid, and wear is reduced. this is typical of rolling element bearings (easiest way to explain it is hydroplaining, roling element being the wheel..) this can be incorporated in to hydro static type systems where there is external pressure on bearings, but this is not what happens in a car. Elastohydrodynamic lubrication phenomenon occurs by which fluid is pressurised localy by a high point load and fluid film lubrication is formed and is what happens in rolling bearings

engine bearings (main) are sliding gournal bearings due to size restrictions, and that means that whn the engine is off there is a massive contact area between the surfaces, in which most of the lubricant is pushed out, as it cannot be absorbed. at start up oil travels through the journals and boundary lubrication is achived, but there is still friction, and with more time (miliseconds) fluid film seperation (boundary to film is mixed type) is achived. this is what happens in engine bearings, and naughty mate ur right for the part that the thinner the oil the better the lubrication (assuming you take engine oil in which all the grades can withstand the presure) but this is all idealistic, and 100k worth of unknown engine wear may and probably would produce accelerated wear
because of this a thicker oil should be used, if the gaps are greater within the bearings than factory specified, then the oil that is too thin will not provide ample lubrication.. new engine, new seals (rings are seals) new bearings, new pump (worn out pump will circulate the thicker oil more efficiently) yes use as thin oil as possible to provide ample lubrication and prolonge the life of all the elements, but when wear is already there, sticking oil in that is too thin will increase the wear..

so the 10W is recomended for the car when new, not after 100K (remember that the design life of the engines comes down to the design of the weakest members, which require major service to change, which is ussualy bearings, most of which have a design life of a certain number of hours/revolutions but i cant recall which)

Tony

if anyone reads to this point sorry if i put you to sleep haha, this is revision for me so i kinda got into it
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:03 AM   #26
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racing engines use 5w oil ONLY! Peter Brock used to pride himself on the statement "IF YOU USE MOBIL 1 SYNTHETIC OIL, YOUR ENGINE WILL NOT WEAR OUT!" Thick oil does not get into the bearings well enough. If I was told I needed to replace my rings after 100,000klms, I would burn the flucking car or drop it from a great hieght! LOL!

I am trying to educate the learner, not argue with you guys. If I didn't know something & I asked a question to a forum, I would want accurate info or no replys. If I ask a Q on 323performance, for example, these guys know they're shat & will advise with quick answers. You say thanks & move on.

We all can have a say. That's Cool. Wrong, unreliable advise wil only get others pissed @ you! You guys are the friendliest bunch of forum dudes I've ever had the pleasure to meet! I mean that with all sincerity. Just ask Gav the times I've PM'd him for advice!

Building Engines & Engine wear was in the past, kinda my forte' if you like. I only have limited knowledge of Turbo Engines when it comes to detenation, but I'm learning so I can control boost & prevent detonation (2000 deg' heat putting a hole in a piston etc)

Fluck! I'm making a 2000 odd klm trip to meet some of you guys & put a name to a face. That's what it's all about in my opinion!
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:10 AM   #27
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did you read anything i said?? who said u need to replace the rings, all i said is that they are worn.. and no offence but brock said alot of things, do u knw why he lost the contract with holden? cus he said if you put a little box inside the bay and not conect it to anything it will make performance better, no offence but to me he has absolutly 0 credibility.. knowing how to race a car has nothing to do with knowing how to make one from scratch. i somehow dont think that if i gave him a slab of aluminium and asked him to make a engine block that he would be able to do it, or if you gave him a bucket of steel and some sand i dont think he could make a rod, or a crank, or a gear (i would LOVE to see anyone make a gear by hand that would last btw )
anyway this is geting stupid and i have assignments to do
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 70NYD View Post
did you read anything i said?? who said u need to replace the rings, all i said is that they are worn.. and no offence but brock said alot of things, do u knw why he lost the contract with holden? cus he said if you put a little box inside the bay and not conect it to anything it will make performance better, no offence but to me he has absolutly 0 credibility.. knowing how to race a car has nothing to do with knowing how to make one from scratch. i somehow dont think that if i gave him a slab of aluminium and asked him to make a engine block that he would be able to do it, or if you gave him a bucket of steel and some sand i dont think he could make a rod, or a crank, or a gear (i would LOVE to see anyone make a gear by hand that would last btw )
anyway this is geting stupid and i have assignments to do
no 70, I didn't say you! Davo stated this & it's simply not true!

The Brock bit was an example only dude!
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:49 AM   #29
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Fact remains, Start-up is where the most engine wear occurs! Thin oil gets up the top quicker (less viscosity). Thin oil also stays longer on the bore. Think of WD40, thin, but lubricates for weeks after. It actually dries on but keeps retaining its lubrication property. See?
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:49 AM   #30
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wwow this thread is going to get locked soon lol. i dont know much but i do know one thing... dont expect your missus to check the oil before she leaves town in your car...mine came back 10 hours later with next to know oil (found a huge leak afterwards) and i dont want to even think about the damage that may have caused
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:51 AM   #31
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it won't get locked Ghoru, noones abusing anyone, it's just a discussion. That's how we learn I guess?
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:58 AM   #32
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i just hope no one is getting info from Wikipedia lol. any way my bg has 17x xxx kms and i think from memory i put 15w in it mostly because that was all that was available at the time on a sunday night
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Old 21-08-2009, 09:03 AM   #33
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gud NO! wiki is crappy crap
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Old 21-08-2009, 09:04 AM   #34
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its not ALLWAYS crap, but there are some funny things thre haha, till they get checked and deleted
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Old 21-08-2009, 09:08 AM   #35
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gives you a guide @ least I guess.
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Old 21-08-2009, 09:11 AM   #36
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any way best option get it looked at then go from there
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Old 21-08-2009, 09:59 AM   #37
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its all well and good to say race engines use 5W.. only lets come back to reality here.

this is a 6 year old mazda with 100,000km that doesn't get rebuilt after each drive. sure you can run 5W oil, but it will burn through it. thats reality. if its not running at least 10W he'll be losing oil from the fact that anything less is too thin for the worn motor. engines wear no matter what oil you use.

pettos, if you have a trusted mech take it to them and get a quote for the 100,000km service & if they can find the leak and fix it. ignore my 100,000 for rings, i wasnt thinking straight.

other option is drive the car and park it overnight on clean concrete to see if it leaks anywhere. i'd be thinking sump for the amount you're losing

oh, and anyone who believes in peter brock's endorsement of a product needs their head checked. bloody magnet power..
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Old 21-08-2009, 10:07 AM   #38
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OMG Habib!

Pete: There are lots of ways your engine could be using 800ml-1L of oil in a month. You're not going to find the answer on a forum, take it to a trusted mechanic and that's that.

FTR: Castrol recommend 15W40 for the BJII 1.8L, and it does work well, even taking away the rough nature of the engine. A 10W30 Edge oil isn't really needed for the FP since it doesn't rev high enough, and it will sip it slightly in a healthy engine. I found a 10W40 to be the best overall.

Also, there is no point comparing a 100k FP to a BP with 200k+++. They are a generation apart, and don't even share the same valve train, ie: solid vs hydraulic. I don't take issue with everyone jumping in to help, but comparing these two motors isn't going to help diagnose the problem.

Anyhow, you certainly do have an issue with the motor, so go get it looked at. Checking the coolant was a good suggestion, as it gives you an idea of how urgent the problem is.

Cheers, Gav.
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Old 21-08-2009, 01:35 PM   #39
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its all well and good to say race engines use 5W.. only lets come back to reality here.

this is a 6 year old mazda with 100,000km that doesn't get rebuilt after each drive. sure you can run 5W oil, but it will burn through it. thats reality. if its not running at least 10W he'll be losing oil from the fact that anything less is too thin for the worn motor. engines wear no matter what oil you use.

pettos, if you have a trusted mech take it to them and get a quote for the 100,000km service & if they can find the leak and fix it. ignore my 100,000 for rings, i wasnt thinking straight.

other option is drive the car and park it overnight on clean concrete to see if it leaks anywhere. i'd be thinking sump for the amount you're losing

oh, and anyone who believes in peter brock's endorsement of a product needs their head checked. bloody magnet power..
agreed totally on most of his later crap Davo, he was a jerk lol. The oil bit was genuine though. Performance breeds daily drivers in the end, not the other way around. Mazda was always into performance, too bad they went rotary & fagged out on the 323 projects

Food for thought. Wouldn't you mind burning a little oil in order to ensure maximum engine protection? Thinner oils were designed for better economy & protection in multi-valve engines!!!!

Alls good ey?
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Old 21-08-2009, 08:11 PM   #40
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Like everyone said....off to a mechanic..something isn't right, a car that age with only 100k on the clock shouldn't really be seeing oil usage like that at all. The 100k service is just the timing belt hence the bigger cost, rings shouldn't need doing in a looked after car until around 200k.

Our SE20 had 90k and never ever used oil at all....have NFI what grade went in it, but it was the Mazda fully synth from new. Our Skoda on the other hand eats it, but thats a VW turbo for you...has settled down now its hit 10k.
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