Pinging On V6 Astina ??? Help ???

[jgibson]

... well thats no good ... my car pings 24/7. yes its does sound like rocks inside your engine, or perhaps shaking rocks/coins in a tin can very rapidly.

[jgibson]

if i was to get new leads and plugs what brand should i get? how much and where from? thanks

[boostedbatman]

Before I start
Welcome back Vaughn, Par le vous Francais

As far as compression ratio is concerned, well theres not much we can do about that as we have a high compression piston in these engines around 9.5-10.0:1 for the KF
Leads can be bought pretty much any where if you want a slightly better lead without spending the Earth go to Stupidcheap and ask them to order you a set of Top Gun leads
Did you ever get around to checking the sparkplug for heat signs?

[skippy]

Hey dude, sorry have been on been back a litte while and been busy as,
looking for a better job, been hating this one since I first organised that trip.

Alot of people have Top Gun leads, I just liked all the pretty promises on the Splitfire adds, (can't say they have made a big performance difference but they sure as hell felt a lot better then the old ones),
Check out any car mag or supercheap.

Not sure what this would tell you exactly but if it stops pinging while your figureing out the porblem could be the idea to go fill up with a tank of optimax and see what happens,
FYI costs about 10c more than norm, dead empty tank takes 55l, $5.50 max per tank,
1.20 55l = $66.00
1.30 55l = $71.50
If it stops the pinging in the short term could be the best financial choice to use it.
You should get a bit further per tank as well.
A fair few people use it (or similar) religiously and I would receommend it if the car gets some abuse.

I tend to go that mid range stuff thats about 5c more.

I am told Pinging is pretty bad for youe enegine and from the sound it makes I am dam sure it would be, anything to stop it now would be priority one in my mind.

[skippy]

Don't ya hate when you remember things after you post,
Sorry you;ve tried that haven't you.

Um the leads I got where ordered for me thay make them up if they don't have them off the shelf,
Just put splitfire leads in google and youll find your way,
150-200 I think I paid,

[jgibson]

thanks heaps ... unfortunately i have to take the car in for a 'mazda' service tomorrow morning so i will talk to them about the problems. no doubt they will change the oil and then charge $1000.

[jgibson]

:O they say its about $600 for a 160k service .. RIP OFF! they are having a look at the pinging and leak but i doubt they will fix them :@

[jgibson]

ok i got the car back from mazda. they didnt service at all but instead investigated the pinging, apparently they had 4 very expereinced guys working on it for 6hrs but they still couldnt solve the prob, and hence i only paid $200 (instead of $100/hr which they normally charge). they ran numerous tests on it. compression is apparently very good, the leads need replacing but they tested a different pair and it didnt help, the engine was decarbonized last service so it shouldnt be carbon in the heads, fuel pressure was also tested and they gave it thumbs up. i listed everything you guys suggested but apparently they didnt find any problems (eg VRIS, IM gasket ...). im really at a loss now, if they cant fix it what chance do i have at doing it my self. im really going to start getting into the home servicing now. does anyone know of a service manual for the BA 323, and where to get it? thanks heaps for all your help its greatly appreciated.

[skippy]

huh not encouraging,

Do a search on "service manual" someone would of had one for sale recently in for sale section if not ebay would be the best bet.

[CRA23]

http://www.pitstop.net.au search for 323 BA there is a KF/KL overhall manual but this is just about rebuilding the engine not fixing it, boostedbatman get one a few weeks ago, these is 2 323 BA repair manuals the first ones does, engin, manual/auto boxs adn clutches, the second does chassis body and electrical

[jgibson]

nice ... which of the 5 manuals would u recommend getting ? i dont really want to spend $200 on both repair manuals, would there be anywhere else cheaper ?

[boostedbatman]

Yeah the one I got isn't quite what I was looking for so I think I will be getting them from http://www.drysdaleautobooks.com.au/products.asp . Type 323 then Car then Manuals into the search boxes, press search then go to page 2 and you will find...
.................................................. .................................................. ....
TITLE: Mazda 323 BA Repair Manual Volume 1 06-1994 Engine, Clutch, Transmission
Description: Factory workshop manual volume 1 covering Engine Clutch and Transmission.**Not a stock item please enquire**
Publisher: Bookworks
Author/Format: Factory
Binding: Soft Cover
Photos: B&W Illustrations
Publication Details:
Marque: Mazda
Other Models Covered: Astina
Item ID: 205498
PRICE: $99.95
.................................................. .................................................. .....
TITLE: Mazda 323 BA Repair Manual Volume 2 06-1994 Chassis, Body, Electrical
Description: Factory workshop manual covering Mazda 323 BA volume 2 which include Chassis, Body and Electrical. **Not a stock item please enquire**
Publisher: Bookworks
Author/Format: Factory
Binding: Soft Cover
Photos: B&W Illustrations
Publication Details:
Marque: Mazda
Other Models Covered: Astina
Item ID: 205491
PRICE: $99.95
.................................................. .................................................. ....
TITLE: Mazda 323 BA Wiring Diagram 06-1994
Description: Factory workshop manual for Mazda 323 BA wiring diagram. **Not a stock item please enquire**
Publisher: Bookworks
Author/Format: Factory
Binding: Soft Cover
Photos: B&W Illustrations
Publication Details:
Marque: Mazda
Other Models Covered: Astina
Item ID: 205492
PRICE: $49.95
.................................................. .................................................. .....

You will need to specify with them that its for the v6. I have been into the store in Bowen Hills before and enquired about the manuals and they are supposed to be what we're looking for. He showed me examples of other ones and they are pretty good.
The store owner isn't just a twat who has a bookstore he races his cars as well and really understands what we need

[John]

Just tuned into this forum
MISFIRING
My 95 BA11 2.0 v6 misfired badly to point of virtually zero power - progressively over 6mth period. Tried new plugs, cleaned leads, checked timing...no progress.
Culprit was breakdown of the hard plastic plug extension on OEM leads inside the cylinder head. Spark jumps through the side of the lead extension to the head, rather than across the plug gap. Telltale sign was a pinhole whith a small amount of white residue (plastic broken down by kV and ozone) where the spark exited the insulator. I found these "exit wounds" when I loosened a lead from the plug - low light, engine running - and looking down the plug hole in the head, saw the spark jump sideways.

Take a really close look (magnifying glass and good light) at the plug extensions on your leads. Look for the pinhole and residue.

I replaced the leads (~$200 from Mazda) and happy days - no more misfiring.

Hope this helps - a new set of leads are expensive to replace if you're not sure of the problem

[John]

BOOKWORKS

These guys publish the OEM workshop manuals for virtually all marques in Australia
Ford/Holden/Mazda/Toyota/Mitsubish etc

Worth a visit if you can get there...

56 Bonds Road
Punchbowl
NSW 2196
AUSTRALIA Phone Number
61 - 2 - 9740 6766
Facsimile
61 - 2 - 9759 0333
Toll Free
1800 242 116
bookworks.com.au

[jgibson]

yea i will replace the leads as soon as i get some money (mazda also said they should be replaced soon)

i found something that concerned me a bit ... have a look at the "Car Album" on the side bar http://spaces.msn.com/members/jgibson2k/

the top of the air box has a sensor of some sort (im guessing its O2 sensor) printed on top of this is "B6BF" which to my understanding is a 4cyl engine from the older model. there is also a loose part (P 1) next to the air box which seems to be a air duct of some sort that isnt connected to anything. i was trying to remember back 50k kms when the car was owned by my parents, i cant remember the air box being that small or the loose duct being visible. in sort i thought that perhaps the air box & filter were replaced at some stage with a 2nd hand part or something. everything just seems to fit together. when outside temp is low = no pinging, as car warms up pinging gets worse etc.

ive also posted some pics of the oil leak.

thanks heaps for your help.. i know i keep saying that but seriously its soooo good having a resource like this. thankyou

[boostedbatman]

B68F=MAF (Mass Air Flow Sensor) this is the correct one for your car so no worries there
P1 Plastic Ducting= the overflow for the battery tray in case of leak I believe from memory. I dont have mine anymore
P2 = Just another resonance chamber to keep the stock intake sound quiet.

With the resonance chambers removed and a Pod filter the sound of the intake on the v6 at WOT (wide open throttle) is amazing and highly addictive

Your evidence of oil leak is the same as I had with a rear valve cover gasket on the way out, you may also find more oil on the power steering pump at the back.

The reason your car pings more during warmer air temps is due to the fact that colder air is more dense. Where more oxygen molecules will burn more fuel molecules during combustion at a lower temp. Remember F.A.S.T.?(Fuel, Air, spark, Temperature)

As for picture 19 "are these the correct ports" I dont understand what your asking, Johns post mentioned the other end of the leads that enter the cylinder head.

[jgibson]

damn .. yea i knew as soon as i posted that there was no hope .. .. back to the drawing board i guess.

pic 19: when mazda took a look at the car they apparently changed the leads to see if it helped, anyway they put the old ones back on but it doesnt look like they are connect to the dist. cap the same way as they were before mazda took at look.

[skippy]

if ya wanna piccy of the correct (well working for me) lead lay out lemme know,

I am fairly sure you would be having some serious issues if incorrectly set up but hey dunno.

[jgibson]

Back to the pinging...

Ive been using Vortex 98 for the last 3 weeks. For the first fill up it was great, pinging was gone. But since the second the pinging has gradually got worse, now its almost as bad as when i use 91OC. It having the same probs as before (lack of power, stops above 4krpm etc) i cant work this one out. Its driving me insane, i as im in my car for about 4hrs a day and need a reliable car that can handle some stop-start driving. Would it have anything to do with the ECU tuning? I would have thought mazda checked it but u never know.

[nupes]

Yeah,
I have the exact same sounds around 4K. Usually starts at 3K

I did notice that there are two sounds. One is related to the VRIS and the second to pinging. Your car should not ping if the engine is cold or just started, so to distinguish the VRIS sound from the pinging sound, you should rev it to 4K in 2nd or 3rd gear first thing in the morning (after the engine has reached normal temp), that is the VRIS sound.

As for the pinging sound, test the car on a hill and a straight road. The pinging should not happen if the car is not under any load. So bring the car up to 3k on a hill and rev up to and past 4K, then do the same thing on a straight or downhill road and see if you get the same pinging sounds. Also try varying the speeds that you do to get to 3k (ie press lightly on the accelarator vs flooring the damn thing with a lead foot)

I did notice that the VRIS sound went away after I had the timing belt/water pump changed. Im not saying that these attribute directly to the VRIS but maybe there is some screw that attaches the timing belt cover to the intake manifold that works itself loose, so when air is redirected from the 1st VRIS it causes the screw to make a shudder sound that stops after 4K (when the air is redirected elsewhere)

I have tried octane boost and high RON fuel, but it only seems to make the pinging quieter. On really hot days or during a lot of stop start driving, I get pinging even past 4K.

I am still eliminating the cause of the pinging, I've used redex to clean up carbon deposits, fuel injector cleaner for dirty injectors, I have a K&N panel filter, change oil regularly with Shell Helix, changed plugs to Irridiums and Top Gun leads, had a throttle body clean. My next venture is to test air/fuel ratio on a dyno gas analyser.

The ECU should be able to pick up faulty O2 sensors, although I've heard that the O2 sensors dont just die but they run slower and slower response. When the sensor finally gives up it tells the ECU to run in closed mode and the ECU forces to dump more fuel than normal (to be safe). So if your O2 sensor has carked it, your car should be using more fuel than normal because its running a rich mixture. It should also log an error code, I think there is a link on here somewhere that shows you how to read error codes from your ECU.

I wonder if a faulty O2 sensor can attribute to pinging ? Anyone ?

Also, try checking for a cracked dizzy cap