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Old 06-02-2013, 10:24 AM   #10061
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isn't the VF10 much larger than the VJ20 or VJ23?
yes, the BP26 head will help spool up a laggy turbo better

an extrude honed factory exhaust manifold and outlet pipe will also help too
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #10062
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Not really. Two of my fat fingers vs 2.5 fat fingers for a rough size. Stock hotside.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:52 AM   #10063
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as I suspected the VF10 is a little larger... I couldn't really find much vids but I saw one where boost pretty much kicked in at 3500rpm instead of 2500 like the VJ20... this is a laggier turbo no matter what the real boost point is

http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/sho...-VJ20-pictures
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:10 PM   #10064
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Vf10 or just a vf10 hybrid?
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:08 PM   #10065
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Quote:
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Vf10 or just a vf10 hybrid?
There one and the same ryan. U need to hybrid the vf10 to fit on a bpt. Yours is already hybrided
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:07 PM   #10066
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There's always an option for a different manifold, which is what I wondered. As that would increase the lagginess.
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:22 PM   #10067
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how would lag increase if exhaust flows better to spin the turbo easier/faster?
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:39 PM   #10068
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Actually, you might be right, once the initial weight/drag increase is overcome. Need to learn about this more. I will have to figure out if the larger turbo running cooler will be better than the smaller less laggy one running hotter will affect efficiency.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:10 PM   #10069
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smaller the better if chasing efficiency. you'd only go a VF10 is chasing high rpm kW figues.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:26 PM   #10070
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Actually, you might be right, once the initial weight/drag increase is overcome. Need to learn about this more. I will have to figure out if the larger turbo running cooler will be better than the smaller less laggy one running hotter will affect efficiency.
If you want better efficiency out of your turbo system... Don't run an intercooler.
You will have super short piping making for extremely sharp throttle response, and less lag.

To do this, you just have to run water meth injection between the turbo and throttle body.

Works absolutely superb.
There is a 300zx up in Dalby (queensland) that I have seen, drooled over and been in at the Armidale Z festival. Making 530hp ish? at the rear wheels with 28's.... No intercoolers
Just good old watermeth

EDIT: just found his forsale thread :O it's officially now a sad day :,(

http://www.aus300zx.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321665

I should also add... Intake temperatures can be made to your desired temperature (roughly) just my using more or less injection
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #10071
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the VF10 will flow better than the VJ20, no doubt about it... it's a more efficient/newer turbo design... but don't kid yourself... journal bearings and larger A/R is counter productive to a quick spool

since the VF10 is bigger/more efficient, you can maintain efficiency by running lower boost than the VJ20 and keep stock power levels... the high compression pistons used will also help spooling/off boost power
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:17 PM   #10072
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lots of different ways to improve efficiency. mainly just reducing the volume of air between the turbo and throttle body. smaller pipes, more direct pipe routing, smaller intercooler etc are the easy ones. 4 individual throttle bodies if you feeling adventurous.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:32 PM   #10073
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Aaron, seriously considering this option, but need to research more failsafes, I'd love no intercooler. Less piping, neater, less obvious turbo install ect. Apparently the place to put the meth is infront of the turbo, into the fins. Downside is damage to blades over time from water, (have to run higher meth % content to prevent it) but upside is a substantial increase in efficiency because more cooler air fits in smaller space allowing less pressure = less heat. Otoh no meth = foolproof, less prone to failure. Would I need to run a 10L tank in the boot? Need to look at flow etc. Ideally I'd like the ecu to check water level before allowing engine to start and a low warning/accompanying limp tune if empty. I don't like intercoolers I also don't like having to worry about 100 things to prevent destruction of motor. I'll talk to the tuner and get an idea on pricing/complexity of no intercooler and meth tuning. I'd imagine it'll take way more fine tuning.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:29 AM   #10074
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Aaron, seriously considering this option, but need to research more failsafes, I'd love no intercooler. Less piping, neater, less obvious turbo install ect. Apparently the place to put the meth is infront of the turbo, into the fins. Downside is damage to blades over time from water, (have to run higher meth % content to prevent it) but upside is a substantial increase in efficiency because more cooler air fits in smaller space allowing less pressure = less heat. Otoh no meth = foolproof, less prone to failure. Would I need to run a 10L tank in the boot? Need to look at flow etc. Ideally I'd like the ecu to check water level before allowing engine to start and a low warning/accompanying limp tune if empty. I don't like intercoolers I also don't like having to worry about 100 things to prevent destruction of motor. I'll talk to the tuner and get an idea on pricing/complexity of no intercooler and meth tuning. I'd imagine it'll take way more fine tuning.
Most kits you buy have fail safe's buil into them.
I will give you some links to some complete kits that are definitely some of the best on the market.
Mitsubishi ECU's are the bomb for water meth fail safe's.
As when the unit is empty (out of water or meth) it will switch the ECU over to its second map, which will have boost and timing cuts with increased fuel maps to keep the internals cooler.

Recently it has actually been found that putting the injection straight after the turbo or straight before the throttle body is actually less efficient that having the injection in between the two.

If you can be stuffed... Go click that link to aus300zx site... Then click on Carl's user and find his build thread...

He wrote up soooooo much information about watermeth and best fail safe's and best kits to buy... It's not funny.

We were doing an NA + TT conversion to one of our 300's... Our plan was to also to a meth injection set up.

It's definitely something that I knew you would be interested in.... And is something that is more than worth while for you!

Happy research! Lol
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:20 AM   #10075
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its also a good idea to get your intake mani and piping ceramic coated
it helps a HUGEEEEEEEEE amount!
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:53 AM   #10076
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Will be for sure! So much information and ways to spend my wage. Suddenly even $2k/week isnt enough haha
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:06 AM   #10077
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Will be for sure! So much information and ways to spend my wage. Suddenly even $2k/week isnt enough haha
Ahahah, I know the feeling dude

Also, turbo housings ceramic coated too.

May I ask.... Why use the VF turbo's??

If your looking for optimal efficiency... You might want to consider using alternative turbo's too
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:18 AM   #10078
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you could build the stock setup to be better. ie ceramic coated pipe, small K-car intercooler under passenger headlights. and still can use all the spray gismos you want. ie the above meth spray. water spray on intercooler. but those aren't everyday run around options. they are short term power gain options.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:44 AM   #10079
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Lol you kids are crazy... I’d just go with the bp26 head with ur bp05 series 3 internals in it with ur pistons and the vf10 with a nice sized FMIC that’s ceramic coated. See how that is then think about water meth or water spray on the cooler. BUT water spray on the cooler should be an option IF the cooler is the right size for the car/application.
Look at Anthony’s bg for instance.. It’s running all stock gear with the gtx Ecu and NA cr, NA head and with a FMIC and it drives quite nicely.
Id go with the “Keep it simple stupid” line and not even go water meth.. That’s just asking for trouble and extra $$$ for tuning with ur new ecu which will cost big $$$ for it and tuning.. (Around the 4k mark once completed, that’s ecu and some good tuning)
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #10080
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I'm a crazy push the limits sort of person. If I was normal I would have dropped in a klze and called it a day why do something old school when there's the technology to experiment? I'd love to meet you azz, I think our brains work in the same way a lot of the time!

Vf turbos to keep stock look. Cheap and readily available. Bolt on
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