Go Back   AstinaGT Forums > Performance & Technical > Forced Induction & Engine Conversions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29-04-2013, 10:01 PM   #1
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
Post '95 BA auto to manual conversion

Gday,

This is my first post on these forums, so I will introduce myself:

My name is Nikki, I am 23 and have a 95 ba 323.
It was my first car & I have had it for 4 years.
I love it to bits!

It has done 270,000k's (100,000 in my possession)

Recently the auto failed (I have been told its the 3-4 cultch by an auto repair specialist)
So I have decided to drop a 5spd in it.

I bought an entire 97 model (for $600) as my donor car. 220,000k's
Clutch was "replaced" a year ago so I was told. It feels good.
(hail damaged & engine blows smoke until hot)
Both cars have Bp engines

(spewing, the donor car has a working sunroof!)

So what I need to know is, before I start pulling off parts is, can someone give me a specific list of what will need to be swapped?

Maybe even if I am lucky, you can tell me what order it's best to do it in!!

My mechanics and others I have asked have said "probably need this, probably need that"
That isn't helpful! So I just need to know, definately what parts need to be swapped.

I.e pedal box, clutch cable, ecu? (I have been told I shouldn't need to swap the ecu)

I need this to be as quick / pain free, as a conversion can get.
(I am driving a Hz 1 tonne of which has just shat it's dizzy > so I need my Mazda going again!)

I miss it!
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 29-04-2013, 10:40 PM   #2
Noble323
E74A
 
Noble323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Car: SP20
Posts: 1,248
Hi Nikki,

Welcome to AstinaGT !

Im sure their will be a few that will message you soon regarding whats needed (I havnt done a conversion with this engine so no point in me guessing what you need haha)

If you feel confident and have the guts, do what Dan did with his car and a sunroof

here:
http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showt...t=13777&page=4

I probably would never attempt it haha.
Noble323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2013, 10:55 PM   #3
Alemenara
AstinaGT Regular
 
Alemenara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Car: 94 V6 BA Hatch
Posts: 264
Hi nikki,

The main problem is that you have a 95 (series I/II) BA and you're swapping in bits from a 97 (Series III). I may be wrong here but if you wanted a pain free swap the easiest way to do it would be to remove the motor and gearbox as 1 piece and drop it into your 95, the front harness and wiring loom changed in series 3, as did the injectors, cams and lifters, you could however try and trick the auto ecu into thinking its an auto, but since you have the whole car why not swap the whole lot?

You will need the crossmembers from your donor car, the master cylinder, pedal box, ecu (if you take this you need the engine and loom), gearbox & driveshafts, engine mounts, the gear knob asembly, the centre console and the cluster.

I'd recommend replacing the clutch whilst you have it all out and apart with an exedy or npc Heavy Duty clutch since it will be an easy job whilst its all apart (that way you know its not going to go on you ever again). Give the motor a full service whilst its out of the car (Timing belt, water pump, oils, oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs etc.).

Theres also a high possibility that you may need to drill into the firewall to make the necessary hole for the clutch pedal (however i may be wrong, i'd ask clean cookie as his project hatch used to be an auto).

If you don't want the engine out of the donor car then i'd suggest searching for a manual Series 1/2 ECU.
Alemenara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2013, 07:41 AM   #4
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
That was very thorough!
Thank you!

How did I know that even though everyone told me it would be identical, it wouldn't!

I would definately prefer NOT to use the donor engine, given the smoke it blows, that and I know my current engine's service history.

Oh i didnt mention they're 4 cyl, not 6.
So I'll chase down a manual ecu.

So using the 95 engine & the 97 box, what parts do I need to chase down to make it fit that I wont already have?

I haven't got much money so if the clutch looks okay, I'll leave it till it goes to change it, it felt quite good when I drove it (dropped a skiddy in 2nd on my driveway unintentionally!)
By the same token, not much money means I would rather trick the auto ecu, what does this require?

What bits will I NEED to buy?
And what do I change when keeping the same engine but changing the box?

(I was under the impression I would need to swap the pedal box as it doesn't look like there is much space for the clutch...)
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2013, 07:42 AM   #5
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble323 View Post
Hi Nikki,

Welcome to AstinaGT !

Im sure their will be a few that will message you soon regarding whats needed (I havnt done a conversion with this engine so no point in me guessing what you need haha)

If you feel confident and have the guts, do what Dan did with his car and a sunroof

here:
http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showt...t=13777&page=4

I probably would never attempt it haha.

Thanks!!
Much like you I don't think I will swap it, I'm not too keen in cutting holes in my car!!!
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2013, 07:50 AM   #6
project.r.racing
Senior Member
 
project.r.racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: n/a
Car: n/a
Posts: 10,929
if you have a donor car you have everything you need except brake fluid.

you need everything attached to the gearbox and the pedal box to make it work.

from doing this on a kf/kh laser, the only thing i can think of is running a wire for the reverse switch. or attempting to find it in the unused auto box wire loom.
project.r.racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #7
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post
if you have a donor car you have everything you need except brake fluid.

you need everything attached to the gearbox and the pedal box to make it work.

from doing this on a kf/kh laser, the only thing i can think of is running a wire for the reverse switch. or attempting to find it in the unused auto box wire loom.


So you believe I would need to change the loom?
Brake fluid & reverse wire are very good points!
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #8
project.r.racing
Senior Member
 
project.r.racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: n/a
Car: n/a
Posts: 10,929
i dont believe you need to change the loom. but then i'm not an expect on the wiring and the wiring is very different pre and post May 96.
project.r.racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:42 AM   #9
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
How can I trick my current ecu into thinking its still an auto when I put the manual in?

Sorry I really can't afford to buy extra parts.

I have a second car and it is also not on the road, iv so far poured nearly a grand into them combined

So if I trick the ecu, what parts will I need to just change the box?

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemenara View Post
Hi nikki,

The main problem is that you have a 95 (series I/II) BA and you're swapping in bits from a 97 (Series III). I may be wrong here but if you wanted a pain free swap the easiest way to do it would be to remove the motor and gearbox as 1 piece and drop it into your 95, the front harness and wiring loom changed in series 3, as did the injectors, cams and lifters, you could however try and trick the auto ecu into thinking its an auto, but since you have the whole car why not swap the whole lot?

You will need the crossmembers from your donor car, the master cylinder, pedal box, ecu (if you take this you need the engine and loom), gearbox & driveshafts, engine mounts, the gear knob asembly, the centre console and the cluster.

I'd recommend replacing the clutch whilst you have it all out and apart with an exedy or npc Heavy Duty clutch since it will be an easy job whilst its all apart (that way you know its not going to go on you ever again). Give the motor a full service whilst its out of the car (Timing belt, water pump, oils, oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs etc.).

Theres also a high possibility that you may need to drill into the firewall to make the necessary hole for the clutch pedal (however i may be wrong, i'd ask clean cookie as his project hatch used to be an auto).

If you don't want the engine out of the donor car then i'd suggest searching for a manual Series 1/2 ECU.
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 08:56 AM   #10
Mad Mat
HONEYWELL REPRESENT
 
Mad Mat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Salisbury - Inner City
Car: 1997 BA Hardtop - Had a 2003 BJii J48 Sport20, and 2x bg SOHC astina hatches
Posts: 5,011
Send a message via MSN to Mad Mat
Pm'd
__________________

1994 323 BG Hatch 2005-2007 Crashed into truck
1991 323 BG Hatch 2007-2008/9 SOLD
2003 BJ SP20 J48 Hatch 2008-2011 Regretfully SOLD
1997 BA I4 Sedan 2012-CURRENT
1985 BF 323 Hatch 2014-2015
SOLD
1989 MX5 2015-2015
Mad Mat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:20 AM   #11
Mad Mat
HONEYWELL REPRESENT
 
Mad Mat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Salisbury - Inner City
Car: 1997 BA Hardtop - Had a 2003 BJii J48 Sport20, and 2x bg SOHC astina hatches
Posts: 5,011
Send a message via MSN to Mad Mat
Sssoooo to do a full auto to manual conversion there is a lot that needs to be changed... ive done this before with a BG astina and its not to fun...

What u need to do first is remove BOTH motor from both cars. With their gearboxes attached. Once u have done this (it will take u a day or two to do that.) swap the manual box over to the good motor. Now because of the Ecu issue I would recommend that u put the intake manifold from the **** motor on the good motor as well (I will explain this later on)...

So now u have the good motor ready to go into Ur car with all the auto gear (shifter and what not) still in it... what u need to do is pull out Ur dash to get to the fire wall. There is a plate there that unbolts and allows u to add the manual clutch master cylinder to the fire wall. You’re going to have to put all of the manual shifter linkages, the manual brake booster, manual brake fluid divider (located just below the clutch master cylinder) clutch line, etc from the donor car into your car.
Once all this is done then grab Ur Ecu and engine loom from the donor car and plug it all into your car. Now there reason I said before to change the intake manifolds is because there is different manifolds between S1/2 and S3 engines. So now u have the right intake manifold you should be right...

OW and make sure (Ryan didn’t realize this ether) that u get the donor’s cars alternator as it has an internal voltage reg where on the S3 the Ecu controls the voltage reg...

If I have missed anything please guys let me know
__________________

1994 323 BG Hatch 2005-2007 Crashed into truck
1991 323 BG Hatch 2007-2008/9 SOLD
2003 BJ SP20 J48 Hatch 2008-2011 Regretfully SOLD
1997 BA I4 Sedan 2012-CURRENT
1985 BF 323 Hatch 2014-2015
SOLD
1989 MX5 2015-2015
Mad Mat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #12
Clean_Cookie
obsessed-incomplete-broke
 
Clean_Cookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Car: BA Hardtop/Hatch
Posts: 5,441
I couldn't figure out how to remove the auto shifter without breaking something. That may be my idiocy, but if anyone knows how it will help you.
__________________
Worklog
Clean_Cookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:04 PM   #13
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
Thank you,
So there will be a problem with putting the donor ECU & loom into my car as mentioned earlier because Of the engine update in the s3, is this not correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Mat View Post
Sssoooo to do a full auto to manual conversion there is a lot that needs to be changed... ive done this before with a BG astina and its not to fun...

What u need to do first is remove BOTH motor from both cars. With their gearboxes attached. Once u have done this (it will take u a day or two to do that.) swap the manual box over to the good motor. Now because of the Ecu issue I would recommend that u put the intake manifold from the **** motor on the good motor as well (I will explain this later on)...

So now u have the good motor ready to go into Ur car with all the auto gear (shifter and what not) still in it... what u need to do is pull out Ur dash to get to the fire wall. There is a plate there that unbolts and allows u to add the manual clutch master cylinder to the fire wall. Youíre going to have to put all of the manual shifter linkages, the manual brake booster, manual brake fluid divider (located just below the clutch master cylinder) clutch line, etc from the donor car into your car.
Once all this is done then grab Ur Ecu and engine loom from the donor car and plug it all into your car. Now there reason I said before to change the intake manifolds is because there is different manifolds between S1/2 and S3 engines. So now u have the right intake manifold you should be right...

OW and make sure (Ryan didnít realize this ether) that u get the donorís cars alternator as it has an internal voltage reg where on the S3 the Ecu controls the voltage reg...

If I have missed anything please guys let me know
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:48 PM   #14
Alemenara
AstinaGT Regular
 
Alemenara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Car: 94 V6 BA Hatch
Posts: 264
Well im not sure how well or if the car would run at all if you were to use a series 3 intake manifold and injectors but keep the S2 cams, would just be easier to track down a S1/2 Manual ECU and do the swap, you should be able to get one on ebay, at the wreckers or ask around in the for sale section (i wouldn't pay anymore than $50)

Also about tricking the ECU i'd talk to maztech as he's done it a few times before and knows all the details.
Alemenara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:26 PM   #15
Mad Mat
HONEYWELL REPRESENT
 
Mad Mat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Salisbury - Inner City
Car: 1997 BA Hardtop - Had a 2003 BJii J48 Sport20, and 2x bg SOHC astina hatches
Posts: 5,011
Send a message via MSN to Mad Mat
Dude ur over thinking it.. She will run fine with the s3 ecu and s1/2 cams.. All that changed was from a hydrolic lifter setup to a solid shim setup.. There wasn a massive change to the cam profile.. People run with massive cams on a stock ecu all the time..

Ur just over thinking it

But id sugest u use the manual ecu loom and ecu.. The auto loom has way to many extra wires and the pins arent the same..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemenara View Post
Well im not sure how well or if the car would run at all if you were to use a series 3 intake manifold and injectors but keep the S2 cams, would just be easier to track down a S1/2 Manual ECU and do the swap, you should be able to get one on ebay, at the wreckers or ask around in the for sale section (i wouldn't pay anymore than $50)

Also about tricking the ECU i'd talk to maztech as he's done it a few times before and knows all the details.
__________________

1994 323 BG Hatch 2005-2007 Crashed into truck
1991 323 BG Hatch 2007-2008/9 SOLD
2003 BJ SP20 J48 Hatch 2008-2011 Regretfully SOLD
1997 BA I4 Sedan 2012-CURRENT
1985 BF 323 Hatch 2014-2015
SOLD
1989 MX5 2015-2015
Mad Mat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:49 PM   #16
Clean_Cookie
obsessed-incomplete-broke
 
Clean_Cookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Car: BA Hardtop/Hatch
Posts: 5,441
ive run my bG motor on S3 ecu for 3 years and on an s1 for 6 months.
__________________
Worklog
Clean_Cookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:51 PM   #17
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Mat View Post
Dude ur over thinking it.. She will run fine with the s3 ecu and s1/2 cams.. All that changed was from a hydrolic lifter setup to a solid shim setup.. There wasn a massive change to the cam profile.. People run with massive cams on a stock ecu all the time..

Ur just over thinking it

But id sugest u use the manual ecu loom and ecu.. The auto loom has way to many extra wires and the pins arent the same..
Okay so I would be best off getting a s1/2 ecu & loom?
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:54 PM   #18
Clean_Cookie
obsessed-incomplete-broke
 
Clean_Cookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Car: BA Hardtop/Hatch
Posts: 5,441
keep whatever is in the car right now. use all accessories (power steering pump(leave on car), alternator, intake manifold, ac comp (leave on car), etc and jusst use the new motors bare block. that way all sensors will work properly.
__________________
Worklog
Clean_Cookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 08:00 PM   #19
Nix323
Junior Member
 
Nix323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Woodend, vic
Car: 1995 Mazda ba 323
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean_Cookie View Post
keep whatever is in the car right now. use all accessories (power steering pump(leave on car), alternator, intake manifold, ac comp (leave on car), etc and jusst use the new motors bare block. that way all sensors will work properly.
Mmmm kind of hoping to knock this over as quickly as possible, since both of my cars are off the road
Nix323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 08:20 PM   #20
Clean_Cookie
obsessed-incomplete-broke
 
Clean_Cookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Car: BA Hardtop/Hatch
Posts: 5,441
itll take an hour to swap over outside the car. its probably only about 15 nuts and 10 bolts.
__________________
Worklog
Clean_Cookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
automatic, ba gearbox, gearbox, manual conversion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 05:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2001- 2010 AstinaGT