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Old 06-08-2013, 05:17 PM   #1
fork
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SP20 N/A Performance Modification

I'm looking at squeezing a few more horses out of my newly purchased 03 SP20. I'm not really all that keen in going down the turbo path because of the insurance cost and the fact that i don't really want that much power at the front wheels for obvious reasons.

I haven't done any modifications to the engine and gearbox yet but i have a few things in mind:
Stock airbox with K&N filter and free up the intake snorkel
Headers (not sure what brand) + full exhaust (unsure what size)
Mazdaspeed LSD
Piggyback ECU for fuel management
Suspension + Sway bars ect
Short shifter

There are also a few things that I would like to do but am not sure whether they would work on my car..?

I'm just wondering if anyone has put one of these intake runners on their N/A motor?
http://www.protegegarage.com/260-product-260.html
Does this intake only work when the engine has forced induction and has anyone used it?

I'm also wondering if anyone has put the JDM camshafts in and how much they changed the performance over stock. It says on the site that they can add up to 18 hp..
http://www.protegegarage.com/1024-product-1024.html

I'm sure a lot of SP20 owners have done some of these mods to their own cars and i was wondering what sort of results you guys got as a guide to assist me in my build. Any sort of help with how effective these mods are would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys

Last edited by fork; 06-08-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:30 PM   #2
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you don't need either one of those from protege garage... you already have the "JDM" intake cam from the factory... that intake manifold is also rubbish... it only adds more low end torque... people say good things about it because their butt dyno feels the torque

even with those other mods you want, the car will still be slow... it takes a lot to make the car reasonably quick... even the FS-ZE engine doesn't make the car fast, it just makes it bearable

the only way to make this car quick is a turbo
at 200hp, my car is just right and is plenty of fun
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:56 PM   #3
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Oh, you have saved me a lot of wasted time and money then. Thanks a lot for your input and feed back. Would you recommend putting a turbo on a FS-DE or FS-ZE?

Looks like I'll have to go turbo after all.. I think it will be best for me to buy the engine and gearbox and rebuild both and then transplant them into my car.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:08 PM   #4
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FS-ZE has too high of compression... the aussie FS-DE has slightly higher compression than the US one, so you are limited in maximum boost.... half a bar is the highest I would go in a stock engine

a couple of people have already fitted turbos to their SP20s... it's no easy feat, but it's still cheaper than going N/A

I have the mazdaspeed LSD in my car... it works great... I had mine welded also to make it more durable... it is a little cheaper than the M-Factory LSD, but most people get the M-Factory these days because it is so much cheaper... when I bought mine, it was either the Mazdaspeed one or Quaife!
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:27 PM   #5
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Fork, if you do even contemplate boosting an SP20, there is a heap to consider. Guyz over @ MX6.com, particularly Jesse (Jesiotrot) has, or had a 626 wagon & I can't remember the donk he had but it handled the turbo with higher comp. It was one particular engine. Pretty sure it was a 2.0L, not sure on model though?

When you boost with anything over 9:1 comp, you have to consider firstly the EMS you will use. You can't simply use your stock management system. Then there is the legalities/engineer cert to consider.

Safest advice @ this stage, aside from working out the expense would be to consider a half-cut so you have the complete turbo system so to speak. The loom/engine/turbo etc. Then you have to wire it in so your instrumentationj works etc.

This is why I suggested looking @ previous threads &/or straight out asking the guyz on performance forums. State what $ you have & where your @ with car & what you want from it.

Lastly, you need to factor in add ons such as heavier clutch, brakes maybe? Suspension? At least look into it. All the best
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:37 PM   #6
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the only turbo half cut you can get is from north america... but they are hard to find... but even then, there are so many differences in the emissions and electrics, you will need the rear half of the car also to complete the job

easier to just import an entire turbo BJ from the US then convert it to RHD
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMAN View Post
the only turbo half cut you can get is from north america... but they are hard to find... but even then, there are so many differences in the emissions and electrics, you will need the rear half of the car also to complete the job

easier to just import an entire turbo BJ from the US then convert it to RHD
I wondered what there was in that instant. Didn't think there'd be much unfortunately This would be one horrifically expensive scenario then.

Huge ask for someone without proper experience or help. This is near impossible without a factory turbo donor driveline. That's the reason I suggested a half-cut.

The other thing is the engineer. Cost for that aside, especially horrid seeing as though you must prove the cars emissions are acceptable. Pretty sure this is in evedry stae now & if it isnt, rules can change any year TPTB want it to.

Your right about prolly need to import a donor but, the expense?
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:28 PM   #8
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the turbo BJ met all north american emissions requirements, it even met california's regulations... the strictest in the world

without doubt, the USDM BJs are cleaner than the aussie ones... full OBD2 compliance, a full evaporative emissions system (more crap in the back next to the fuel tank), etc

they also have a stiffer chassis and better rust proofing
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:33 PM   #9
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You will probably never get the emissions right from the factory turbo car - US vs AU standards, ODB-I vs OBD-II, RHD vs LHD, list goes on ....

You are probably better getting the turbo bits between the head and mid-pipe. Relatively easy to ship and not too expensive. Then get a piggyback ECU to add some extra fuel for the turbo boost.

I can't think of a cheaper way, that is reasonably robust.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:27 PM   #10
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the aussie BJ followed Euro III emissions AFAIK... it's dirtier than the USDM TLEV emissions of 2003.... regular USDM BJs followed ULEV California emissions
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Last edited by TheMAN; 07-08-2013 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMAN View Post
the turbo BJ met all north american emissions requirements, it even met california's regulations.....
This is why I suggested using a factory turbo donor car.

The half-cut will have all this covered via intake/loom/ECU etc. So all the emmissions gear can be used. Doesn't matter if it isn't kosher. As far as engineers are concerned. If the swap comes from a factory turbo model, into a stock model of similar year/type. They don't require emissions test.

Of course there will be dramas with mismatching ECU/fuel mapping etc but, where engineer cert is concerned. They require emissions testing if you want to custom any engine without factory emissions MAF etc. This is the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
You will probably never get the emissions right from the factory turbo car - US vs AU standards, ODB-I vs OBD-II, RHD vs LHD, list goes on ....
As above concerning engineers requirements etc......
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:50 AM   #12
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well I am going to answer this one in a more sensible approach

1st off what state you in ? If your not in QLD - your wasting time thinking turbo.

You noted you don't want turbo for insurance cost. Only state that will legally cover it and insurance companys will obey is QLD. Victoria is not far behind better SA - WA Good as well. If in NSW - enjoy a stock car or very mildly modified.

Turbo is the only real - Performance difference. a FS-ZE is a noticeable increase. It makes it drive more like a VTI-R Honda civic. True it's nothing special but Every car and engine combination have there own traits.

On the street they all mean nothing - Simply you have speed limits and end of the day Man most money wins. (if you don't understand that - you will learn)

All your modifications listed are good - except for the piggyback leave it last.
Intake exhaust - all fine. then give it some handling upgrades and then leave it.
from then on, most upgrades are minor. Gains are not worth purchase price.

Stripping the car putting in lightweight buckets, will gain you more then an interceptor.

Everyone here can help. But you have to decide what YOU - want how much you willing to spend on a ten year old car. Are you ready to live with out it ETC ETC. List goes on.

Think about before you leap.

Some people on here have made smart choices doing minor and more asthetic upgrades till they can afford - car of dreams or something that suits them or old enough to buy and insure a turbo car.

It's not the end all be all either. I've had turbo car since I could drive. But now days I just want another Luxury Boat. Just one that massages my butt this time and eats HSV's.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:43 AM   #13
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This is why I suggested using a factory turbo donor car.

The half-cut will have all this covered via intake/loom/ECU etc. So all the emmissions gear can be used. Doesn't matter if it isn't kosher. As far as engineers are concerned. If the swap comes from a factory turbo model, into a stock model of similar year/type. They don't require emissions test.

Of course there will be dramas with mismatching ECU/fuel mapping etc but, where engineer cert is concerned. They require emissions testing if you want to custom any engine without factory emissions MAF etc. This is the problem.



As above concerning engineers requirements etc......
like I said... the half cut won't be a complete solution... there are so many differences in the rear half of the car that the ECU will still go mad when it can't see those things.... there are extra evaporative emissions equipment and that equipment is also monitored..... it's very hard to fool also.... only way around this is to either import an entire car and convert to RHD or import the half cut with all the fuel tank associated crap from the back
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:10 AM   #14
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I guess we were entertaining the OP's "hmmmm, how do I get a little more power outta dis ting" & @ the same time, trying to clarify the huge effort, cost & legalities it requires to do so.

I'm all for a custom build but, as Rod is wisely bringing it back into perspective. The ol' line is. If you want big power. Buy a turbo car. (already done, legal, reliable, cheap in the long run - period)

If however you simply, & cost effectively, as many here have done, just want improved performance. OP, pls listen to these guyz who have done the things THAT MATTER. Don't go balls & all in & do mods that aren't warranted ie: performance gains that aren't worth the cost & effort. This will piss you off later. I guess this is why you started the thread in the first place?

Bottom line, take advise for what it's worth though. If you wanna do something. Think it through properly first. Enjoy what you do & it will be a learning curve for sure. All good
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:31 PM   #15
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I won't argue that if you want alot of power that Turbo is the way to go.

But what I will argue is that you dont need a turbo to have a heap of fun. To be honest man, your never going to keep with evos or wrxs unless you get them on a tight enough road that they cant really get on boost.

I honestly don't really like going that fast, speed + sudden stopping = bad. For me its about the tight back to back turns

Message Rupe he has a set of Autoexe headers, get a 2.5" exhaust and a CAI. Car will pull alot harder and will only get better as you head towards red line (The sound of vics is pretty epic). This is what I have and its honestly pretty awesome

Combine it with some good suspension mods and the car will handle really well and have plenty of power.

Those three mods completely change the way the car revs. Its no longer asthmatic at high rpm.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:15 PM   #16
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that intake manifold is also rubbish...
And you don't get the little kick of the VICS opening up around 4000RPM
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:01 PM   #17
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:16 PM   #18
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^^ that's the ticket right there
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #19
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And $800+ spent on a set of tyres.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:49 AM   #20
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Any more mods than the usual intake/exhaust/suspension/wheels is just throwing money away. If you wanna start chasing bigger power, then go purchase the correct car for it.
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