Coilover suspension vs. Replacement suspension parts - Page 4

project.r.racing · 19-05-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejayryry

Recently I installed a set of JIC SA-1s and found that the are far superior to the other springs. In all fairness I do have to say that the original shocks were still in and very well worn out.

sorry for quoting myself but as others have mentioned, i am comparing them to worn shocks... LOOK!!! I did mention that in the 1st thread

and yes they are far superior to ****ty kings/worn shocks, i have admitted that from the start.

andy - what lack off chassis strengthening and sway bar are you talking about? i'd get to speed on things before make statements like that again. and everyone knows they aren't mine, i posted that in the 1st thread also

/end rant

ryan

p.s. last you'll here from me on the matter

p.p.s. who is gonna flame you dan? i've been alot more race cars than you and i know how good springs and shocks work. sorry but you made it personal when you singled out me as "you."

LordWorm · 19-05-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejayryry

sorry for quoting myself but as others have mentioned, i am comparing them to worn shocks... LOOK!!! I did mention that in the 1st thread

and yes they are far superior to ****ty kings/worn shocks, i have admitted that from the start.

andy - what lack off chassis strengthening and sway bar are you talking about? i'd get to speed on things before make statements like that again. and everyone knows they aren't mine, i posted that in the 1st thread also

/end rant

ryan

p.s. last you'll here from me on the matter

p.p.s. who is gonna flame you dan? i've been alot more race cars than you and i know how good springs and shocks work. sorry but you made it personal when you singled out me as "you."

Before i start, I am no means trying to continue this argument..before I get accused of such.

Genuine, no bs question. Why are kings so ****ty? was it the kings or your shocks that were ****ty (i.e. are kings ****ty on even good unworn shocks?)

End of the day, *all* I am personally after is a lowered look, and improved handling at the given ride height...adjustability is of no concern to me, I can adjust the caster and camber as it is, as I already have....but adjustable shocks and adjustable ride height doesnt interest me one iota...(unless it should? Havn't yet seen a justification why it should bother me yet...).... so would you recommend I go with Kings and a decent set of matched shocks (baring in mind the kings are going to be virtually free), or should i give them a miss and shell out for coilovers? Sorry for the suspension n00b question..

chicaboo · 19-05-2006, 05:28 PM

My take on things:

Coilovers
- Adjustable Bump/Rebound (usually a combined setting)
- Height adjustable
- Lighter (claimed by manufacturers)
- Expensive (paying for lots of adjustability)
- Rebuildable
- Some modification to coilover may be required if not purpose built for car type

Matched springs/shocks
- Adjustable Bump/Rebound (combined setting on more expensive shocks)
- Not height adjustable
- Set and forget (purchase to suit requirements)
- Less expensive (dependant on requirements)
- Not rebuildable (generally unless higher spec like Koni Reds)
- Often spring seats need to be gutted from old shocks to complete new shocks

I myself have the best springs in the world for the driving I do. But I will need a comparable set of shocks to make the most out of them. Adjustable bump/rebound are not things I'm interested in playing with (Tokico Illumina), so I will just go the set and forget method with Tokico HP (Blues). Eibach+HPs are a tried and true formula in the US, and the price reasonably high at around $1100, but the guys who want the best shock/spring combo go with the Illuminas which will easily run $1500. So it's apparent if you want adjustability, for an extra couple hundred $ you are at coilovers. This would support Ryans arguement I believe. However for me, I don't intend on changing the characteristics of my car for each encounter. So it is the non-adjustable rout for me.

Gav.

project.r.racing · 19-05-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordWorm

Genuine, no bs question. Why are kings so ****ty? was it the kings or your shocks that were ****ty (i.e. are kings ****ty on even good unworn shocks?)

Sorry for the suspension n00b question..

Never apologise for asking questions, in my books, it's the only way you learn. Noob or non-noob.

I think for the gains you are looking for, Kings and some good matched shocks would be prefect for you.

The kings that i had were soft. others have noted the kings were extremely hard. maybe the spring rate on kings for the BA are soft? i dunno?

ryan

chicaboo · 19-05-2006, 08:09 PM

Actually, since Lordworm is trying to build the ultimate drag car he would be better off with adjustable shocks. This way he can harden the rears and soften the fronts for best launch. Personally I don't care about drags a great deal, I've only been dissappointed with my efforts on the strip, but my car likes twisties and the dyno...

LordWorm · 19-05-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicaboo

Actually, since Lordworm is trying to build the ultimate drag car he would be better off with adjustable shocks. This way he can harden the rears and soften the fronts for best launch. Personally I don't care about drags a great deal, I've only been dissappointed with my efforts on the strip, but my car likes twisties and the dyno...

dunno bout "ultimate" drag car, its still gotta be good for street

i'll be arresting the front suspension pretty severly with a chain (well not quite a chain but almost....) to stop it from rocking upwards, and traction bars to keep the power on the ground..both will be removable for street driving.

ryan: was only apologising so you didn't think i was being a smartass and jumping on the band wagon

edit:

gav - why would i want to harden the rears and not the fronts? would not harder wheels provide more downward force, better road contact.
THe whole reason for me overinflating the hell out of hte rears is to get less rubber in contact with the road and reduce drag on the car at launch... getting maximum traction at the front is key (for FWD)... so pushing it down harder is the way to go wouldn't you think?

project.r.racing · 19-05-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordWorm

gav - why would i want to harden the rears and not the fronts? would not harder wheels provide more downward force, better road contact.

cos when you power the car on take-off, the rear dump downwards and the front jumps upwards causing lose of traction. so by lifting the rear spring height and stiffening it so it does't move, you will be pushing the front wheels down onto the tarmac and you won't have the rear movement.

LordWorm · 20-05-2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejayryry

cos when you power the car on take-off, the rear dump downwards and the front jumps upwards causing lose of traction. so by lifting the rear spring height and stiffening it so it does't move, you will be pushing the front wheels down onto the tarmac and you won't have the rear movement.

yes but a soft setting at hte front would make them more prone to do there own thing right? i.e. move easilly with any force applied (and there is a fair whack of force applied!...traction bars alone drop 0.2secs of some honda car's 60 foot times because it gets the wheels pushed down more).

Not really up with the dynamics of how shocks etc work. i'm probably thinking about things totally backwards

chicaboo · 20-05-2006, 12:11 AM

There is a theory that a baggy front end (no strut brace even) yields better times. Most ppl CBF'd trying various setups, so it's not something we can say for sure. The oldschool RWD boys run a soft rear/firm front setup for instance, opposite to what you'd expect would work for us.

I think some ppl get too hung up on traction for our cars on the quarter. We really don't have heaps of power, and the higher revs from a bit of slippage puts you into a better powerband in any case. But each car is individual in it's application anyhow...

LordWorm · 20-05-2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicaboo

There is a theory that a baggy front end (no strut brace even) yields better times. Most ppl CBF'd trying various setups, so it's not something we can say for sure. The oldschool RWD boys run a soft rear/firm front setup for instance, opposite to what you'd expect would work for us.

I think some ppl get too hung up on traction for our cars on the quarter. We really don't have heaps of power, and the higher revs from a bit of slippage puts you into a better powerband in any case. But each car is individual in it's application anyhow...

I'd disagree with a bit of slippage putting you in a higher powerband... as soon as the tyres inevitably bite, the revs will fall somewhat while load is applied to the engine through the wheels.

Also, even if it does put you in a higher powerband, you've just wasted 0.2secs or more over your 60foot time with wheel spin....which can translate to big time losses by the end of the run

chicaboo · 20-05-2006, 12:38 AM

Says this the person who made his best passes with lots of axle tramp, wheel spin and a worn clutch... Just saying, things are not always constant, what you gain or lose in one department can go inversely in another. Ultimately the best traction with lots of power is what we all want, but then Subarus tend to suffer poor quarter times because they can't dump or spin up, and they have to pull from near idle or face breaking a box, which doesn't help their times (lots of traction though...).

twilightprotege · 20-05-2006, 01:47 AM

maximum traction is gained from NOT spinning the tyres. maximum traction is just before the tyres lose traction (gav i have nfi where you got that badly informed information) - so that is why i ride the clutch. that's what keeps the engine revs up, not the tyres spinning.

oh and best setup for fwd drag car is insanely firm rear AND FRONT suspension. you want the hard rear so it doesnt squat, but you also want hard front so it doesnt lift.

(and for those wondering wtf i'm doing online when we're driving to sydney in a couple of hours - party next door. cant sleep. cops on the way

)

(well cops arent no their way now - they just came and it's quiet. pitty i've had a camn strong coffee - well on my 2nd now - and would need to wake up shortly anyway)

boostedbatman · 20-05-2006, 04:05 AM

Add to that from the Bode that you will want less psi in the front tyres to aid traction but you will want higher psi in the rears as you dont want added traction in the rear and more tyre contact to slow you down . You want to limit the 'energy' transferred to the tarmac by the rear tyres. Thats why a Pro FWD drag cars will use Front Runners on their rears

Astro Boy · 20-05-2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordWorm

gav - why would i want to harden the rears and not the fronts? would not harder wheels provide more downward force, better road contact.

Haha... i get it.. joke... right? Your seriously beleive that by making a shock harder your car all of a sudden gains more kilo's????

chicaboo · 20-05-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twilightprotege

maximum traction is gained from NOT spinning the tyres. maximum traction is just before the tyres lose traction (gav i have nfi where you got that badly informed information) - so that is why i ride the clutch. that's what keeps the engine revs up, not the tyres spinning.

OMFG... IN A LOW POWERED CAR YOU NEED REVS TO MAKE POWER. If you are trying to ride a clutch to the knifes edge of destruction meets the brink of traction loss, that may be great and all, but sometimes good old fashioned wheel spin while salvaging some clutch will launch some cars better. I am NOT talking searing tyre fire, I mean a healthy little slip to let you know the tyres are working for you. I swear you guys are so ****ing narrowminded and one tracked with YOUR information. I am just saying things don't always run by the book, a la Wormlets best time being a very untidy example of what you call a good launch...!

Quote:

Originally Posted by twilightprotege

oh and best setup for fwd drag car is insanely firm rear AND FRONT suspension. you want the hard rear so it doesnt squat, but you also want hard front so it doesnt lift.

And then the car will bounce like that orange Honda did at Jamboree last year, because it has no ability to soak up tyre shake and alxetramp (still happens even with lots of barwork and money spent to stop it)... I'm not the only person to think about trying a baggy front end. Ofcourse I can only go off hunches and running FWD, RWD and AWD RC cars with modded suspension and aero for 20 the last years...

I swear you guys think I'm some dumbt carnt who just crawled out of highschool... I might not be down on the 1:1 scale terminology and 4stroke workings all the time, but I am sick of a particular someone trying his best to make me look like a f/wit all the time.

Good day farkers. I hope this was most enlightening for the discussion of coilovers. I know where I stand now...
Gav.

project.r.racing · 20-05-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicaboo

I swear you guys think I'm some dumbt carnt who just crawled out of highschool... I might not be down on the 1:1 scale terminology and 4stroke workings all the time, but I am sick of a particular someone trying his best to make me look like a f/wit all the time.

i don't think your dumb... i think you're sexy... i like playing with your nipples

jkz

Savvyfx · 20-05-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicaboo

OMFG... IN A LOW POWERED CAR YOU NEED REVS TO MAKE POWER. If you are trying to ride a clutch to the knifes edge of destruction meets the brink of traction loss, that may be great and all, but sometimes good old fashioned wheel spin while salvaging some clutch will launch some cars better. I am NOT talking searing tyre fire, I mean a healthy little slip to let you know the tyres are working for you. I swear you guys are so ****ing narrowminded and one tracked with YOUR information. I am just saying things don't always run by the book, a la Wormlets best time being a very untidy example of what you call a good launch...!
And then the car will bounce like that orange Honda did at Jamboree last year, because it has no ability to soak up tyre shake and alxetramp (still happens even with lots of barwork and money spent to stop it)... I'm not the only person to think about trying a baggy front end. Ofcourse I can only go off hunches and running FWD, RWD and AWD RC cars with modded suspension and aero for 20 the last years...

I swear you guys think I'm some dumbt carnt who just crawled out of highschool... I might not be down on the 1:1 scale terminology and 4stroke workings all the time, but I am sick of a particular someone trying his best to make me look like a f/wit all the time.

Good day farkers. I hope this was most enlightening for the discussion of coilovers. I know where I stand now...
Gav.

Okay, I don't get it. Someone disagree's and you lost your stuff.
I would have thought a soft suspension would allow the front to lift, creating less traction.

Wheel spin is never good for a launch. Riding the clutch out will give you the most power while keeping no wheel spin.

I'm always happy to hear another opinion, but I dislike it when people can't stand an opposing one.

chicaboo · 20-05-2006, 04:07 PM

FMD... Sav, I am not saying my way is THE way or the ONLY way. Quite to the contrary, I am pointing out what twilightprotege said is NOT the only way (as you and him both suggest), as not all cars follow the same rulebook, hence a soft front may work in the right application (NOT ALL THE TIME FFS!), and I happen to think it's worth trying if you CBF'd...

Lets exagerate my theory, put 2 identical FWD vehicles (within sanity) on loose sand or dirt with a hard setup and a soft setup on the front. Which will accellerate faster in a straight line with the EXACT same footwork do you think??? Now I what works better from experience in RC, which is why I offered my opinion in the first place...

Quote:

Originally Posted by twilightprotege

(gav i have nfi where you got that badly informed information)

Quote:

Originally Posted by savvyfx

I'm always happy to hear another opinion, but I dislike it when people can't stand an opposing one.

You weren't happy to hear my opinion, and I WASN'T opposing twilight's opinion, I was hilighting the fact there was no room in both of your opinions for variation in setup of such a nature. Hmmmm?

Let me try and explain one last time my theory. A soft FWD setup on the front with reasonable bump with sloppy rebound will soak up tramp/vibration/tyre-shake/you name it. The rears are hard to stop it squating. Now if the front has some play it will allow scope for slip while building revs allowing the car to come onto band. A hard front setup pushing the tyres down as hard as it can is great when it works, but I am just offering another perspective.

I'm happy for Astro Greg to interject here as he has real world experience going around corners, dunno if this implies any straight line knowledge or not, but I would think so. However I flipped cos my opinion wasn't heard, not yours as you have put it.

Whatever, just keep ****ting on me like everyone else...
Gav.

Astro Boy · 20-05-2006, 06:24 PM

ok... FWD setup for corners, i'm not going to go into straight line soapboxes, cause frankly, i've got no experience nor interest... now number one principle is:

"CORNERING FLATTER DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN CORNERING FASTER!!!"

Maximum traction equals maximum grip. On that note i'm also with Chicaboo about the whole slip issue.. i still swear to this day that my stock G200 Charade when i first got it got to 100km/hr on dirt QUICKER than it did on bitumen, because initial wheel spin kept it in the powerband, and let the tyres do the catchup... this wasn't placebo... we timed it!

Ok... the very first thing i do to setup a FWD properly for rallying* (i'll explain the differences later) is ditch the front sway bar (FSB)... they are evil! I never plan to use it, so much to the point where the sway bar mount bolts are now used permanately to hold the back end of the sump guard up... Front sway bars in FWD cars with no, or a lightly sprung lsd also tend to pick the inside wheel up during cornering, resultsing in loss of traction/drive/speed... Not cool... The lada has a torsion beam rear end, and the charade has just the factory standard rear bar, both enough to supress suficent body roll, and co-incidently the charade didn't come with a FSB, and anyone who's ever been in it can attest to its cornering ability...

Rear sway bars... now this is more personal preference as an increase in a rear sway bar wont' surpress body roll as much as an equavilent upgrade in a FSB. A rear sway bar in a FWD car determines its understeer/oversteer tendancies on the limit... My personal preference is quite stiff rear end. This surpresses body roll, increases response, helps turn in, whilst not overly comprimising front end grip... remember in a FWD car the front wheels pull the car in both lateral and longitudinal directions, the back just has to follow the way you want it too.. in that respect, the rear sway bar is more cruitial than the front one...

The problem with a stiff rear bar it is induces lots of oversteer... yep.. i can hear the "fully sik skid bro" now... I like this because i hate understeer, with the experience that i have, i'm now 110% confident of my ability to correct a car through a corner provided its in the corner, which is what oversteer helps with... what i'm NOT confident with yet is my braking markers under all circumstances, and that's why i hate understeer... what you want is neutral, as going sideways looses you time, even on dirt...

* My advice to most: for a road car leave the front sway bar, upgrade the rear, and learn how to drive; for a rally car if its got sway bars front and back, remove the front completely and leave the back standard, remember, the stiffer your sway bars are, the LESS independent your wheels are...

Allignments:

Toe... This is entirely dependent on the car, as some cars react differetly, due to stuff like roll centres etc. For examples, based on same personal preference, my Civic Rally wanted toe in on the front, whilst both the charade and lada want toe out, and i'd imagine the astina would be the same... Work with a neutral setting for FWD, generally 1 or 2mm toe out on the front, and roughly the same in on the back, go from there...

Camber... What ever you put on the front put about 0.25 degree MORE neg on the back, start with about 1 degree neg on the front, and go from there... The more neg camber you put in, the faster you'll corner, but at a BIG loss of braking... fine on a race or rally track, but on the road its dangerous, on a road car, dont EVER gor more than 2 degrees neg unless you don't particulary like your insurance rating, or the drivers infront...

Caster... As much positive caster as you can, this leans the strut back, meaning its more inline with the direction of bump... not a big problem in a road car, but in a rally car, when you're hitting potholes or rocks at 200km/hr, the natural tendancy is from the strut to pull back, and positive caster helps overcome this... Also the more caster you have, the more dynamic camber on steer you have... very usefull thing to have... means you can run less static camber (to help braking), yet have sufficent camber to turn on steer...

Ride heights... Front to rear weight balance, basically changes understeer/oversteer... more rear height, more oversteer and vise versa...

Thats all i can think of for now, any questions ask or PM... my experience is not perpetual, and i don't know everything so feel free to comment...

Basically what ever you may know for RWD, its the complete opposite for FWD, and AWD is for farkers with too much money!!!

Noble323 · 21-05-2006, 10:23 AM

WOW !

Never been in a site with so much messages that people are "Quote" from others, its like ever 2 message in this thread theres a "Quote" - lol

Ps: i hope no one quote's this reply.

20-05-2006, 04:05 AM	#73
boostedbatman Manpink Crusader Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stafford, Brisbane Car: 1990 GD mx6 F2T, and soon I might drive the batmoobile once again Posts: 2,280 View Photos By: boostedbatman	Add to that from the Bode that you will want less psi in the front tyres to aid traction but you will want higher psi in the rears as you dont want added traction in the rear and more tyre contact to slow you down . You want to limit the 'energy' transferred to the tarmac by the rear tyres. Thats why a Pro FWD drag cars will use Front Runners on their rears __________________ The Batmobile as she used to be and now she hangs from a chain in the garage

20-05-2006, 06:24 PM	#79
Astro Boy GSL RallySport Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brendale QLD!!! Car: Cross 6 Posts: 1,835	ok... FWD setup for corners, i'm not going to go into straight line soapboxes, cause frankly, i've got no experience nor interest... now number one principle is: "CORNERING FLATTER DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN CORNERING FASTER!!!" Maximum traction equals maximum grip. On that note i'm also with Chicaboo about the whole slip issue.. i still swear to this day that my stock G200 Charade when i first got it got to 100km/hr on dirt QUICKER than it did on bitumen, because initial wheel spin kept it in the powerband, and let the tyres do the catchup... this wasn't placebo... we timed it! Ok... the very first thing i do to setup a FWD properly for rallying* (i'll explain the differences later) is ditch the front sway bar (FSB)... they are evil! I never plan to use it, so much to the point where the sway bar mount bolts are now used permanately to hold the back end of the sump guard up... Front sway bars in FWD cars with no, or a lightly sprung lsd also tend to pick the inside wheel up during cornering, resultsing in loss of traction/drive/speed... Not cool... The lada has a torsion beam rear end, and the charade has just the factory standard rear bar, both enough to supress suficent body roll, and co-incidently the charade didn't come with a FSB, and anyone who's ever been in it can attest to its cornering ability... Rear sway bars... now this is more personal preference as an increase in a rear sway bar wont' surpress body roll as much as an equavilent upgrade in a FSB. A rear sway bar in a FWD car determines its understeer/oversteer tendancies on the limit... My personal preference is quite stiff rear end. This surpresses body roll, increases response, helps turn in, whilst not overly comprimising front end grip... remember in a FWD car the front wheels pull the car in both lateral and longitudinal directions, the back just has to follow the way you want it too.. in that respect, the rear sway bar is more cruitial than the front one... The problem with a stiff rear bar it is induces lots of oversteer... yep.. i can hear the "fully sik skid bro" now... I like this because i hate understeer, with the experience that i have, i'm now 110% confident of my ability to correct a car through a corner provided its in the corner, which is what oversteer helps with... what i'm NOT confident with yet is my braking markers under all circumstances, and that's why i hate understeer... what you want is neutral, as going sideways looses you time, even on dirt... * My advice to most: for a road car leave the front sway bar, upgrade the rear, and learn how to drive; for a rally car if its got sway bars front and back, remove the front completely and leave the back standard, remember, the stiffer your sway bars are, the LESS independent your wheels are... Allignments: Toe... This is entirely dependent on the car, as some cars react differetly, due to stuff like roll centres etc. For examples, based on same personal preference, my Civic Rally wanted toe in on the front, whilst both the charade and lada want toe out, and i'd imagine the astina would be the same... Work with a neutral setting for FWD, generally 1 or 2mm toe out on the front, and roughly the same in on the back, go from there... Camber... What ever you put on the front put about 0.25 degree MORE neg on the back, start with about 1 degree neg on the front, and go from there... The more neg camber you put in, the faster you'll corner, but at a BIG loss of braking... fine on a race or rally track, but on the road its dangerous, on a road car, dont EVER gor more than 2 degrees neg unless you don't particulary like your insurance rating, or the drivers infront... Caster... As much positive caster as you can, this leans the strut back, meaning its more inline with the direction of bump... not a big problem in a road car, but in a rally car, when you're hitting potholes or rocks at 200km/hr, the natural tendancy is from the strut to pull back, and positive caster helps overcome this... Also the more caster you have, the more dynamic camber on steer you have... very usefull thing to have... means you can run less static camber (to help braking), yet have sufficent camber to turn on steer... Ride heights... Front to rear weight balance, basically changes understeer/oversteer... more rear height, more oversteer and vise versa... Thats all i can think of for now, any questions ask or PM... my experience is not perpetual, and i don't know everything so feel free to comment... Basically what ever you may know for RWD, its the complete opposite for FWD, and AWD is for farkers with too much money!!! __________________ - GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 - Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers -

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19-05-2006, 05:28 PM	#63
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	My take on things: Coilovers - Adjustable Bump/Rebound (usually a combined setting) - Height adjustable - Lighter (claimed by manufacturers) - Expensive (paying for lots of adjustability) - Rebuildable - Some modification to coilover may be required if not purpose built for car type Matched springs/shocks - Adjustable Bump/Rebound (combined setting on more expensive shocks) - Not height adjustable - Set and forget (purchase to suit requirements) - Less expensive (dependant on requirements) - Not rebuildable (generally unless higher spec like Koni Reds) - Often spring seats need to be gutted from old shocks to complete new shocks I myself have the best springs in the world for the driving I do. But I will need a comparable set of shocks to make the most out of them. Adjustable bump/rebound are not things I'm interested in playing with (Tokico Illumina), so I will just go the set and forget method with Tokico HP (Blues). Eibach+HPs are a tried and true formula in the US, and the price reasonably high at around $1100, but the guys who want the best shock/spring combo go with the Illuminas which will easily run $1500. So it's apparent if you want adjustability, for an extra couple hundred $ you are at coilovers. This would support Ryans arguement I believe. However for me, I don't intend on changing the characteristics of my car for each encounter. So it is the non-adjustable rout for me. Gav.

19-05-2006, 08:09 PM	#65
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	Actually, since Lordworm is trying to build the ultimate drag car he would be better off with adjustable shocks. This way he can harden the rears and soften the fronts for best launch. Personally I don't care about drags a great deal, I've only been dissappointed with my efforts on the strip, but my car likes twisties and the dyno...

20-05-2006, 12:11 AM	#69
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	There is a theory that a baggy front end (no strut brace even) yields better times. Most ppl CBF'd trying various setups, so it's not something we can say for sure. The oldschool RWD boys run a soft rear/firm front setup for instance, opposite to what you'd expect would work for us. I think some ppl get too hung up on traction for our cars on the quarter. We really don't have heaps of power, and the higher revs from a bit of slippage puts you into a better powerband in any case. But each car is individual in it's application anyhow...

20-05-2006, 12:38 AM	#71
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	Says this the person who made his best passes with lots of axle tramp, wheel spin and a worn clutch... Just saying, things are not always constant, what you gain or lose in one department can go inversely in another. Ultimately the best traction with lots of power is what we all want, but then Subarus tend to suffer poor quarter times because they can't dump or spin up, and they have to pull from near idle or face breaking a box, which doesn't help their times (lots of traction though...).

20-05-2006, 01:47 AM	#72
twilightprotege Driving a faster car now! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Work, always at bloody work... Car: Lotus ....... . Posts: 5,217 View Photos By: twilightprotege	maximum traction is gained from NOT spinning the tyres. maximum traction is just before the tyres lose traction (gav i have nfi where you got that badly informed information) - so that is why i ride the clutch. that's what keeps the engine revs up, not the tyres spinning. oh and best setup for fwd drag car is insanely firm rear AND FRONT suspension. you want the hard rear so it doesnt squat, but you also want hard front so it doesnt lift. (and for those wondering wtf i'm doing online when we're driving to sydney in a couple of hours - party next door. cant sleep. cops on the way ) (well cops arent no their way now - they just came and it's quiet. pitty i've had a camn strong coffee - well on my 2nd now - and would need to wake up shortly anyway)

21-05-2006, 10:23 AM	#80
Noble323 E74A Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sydney Car: SP20 Posts: 1,248	WOW ! Never been in a site with so much messages that people are "Quote" from others, its like ever 2 message in this thread theres a "Quote" - lol Ps: i hope no one quote's this reply.