L3-VE into BJ?

[luk3333]

I was thinking about selling my car to get something something more powerful, but i really like the Astina and i can't purchase a turbo for another 2 years. I was thinking conversions. An FP to FS conversion seems a bit pointless although it would be a straight swap. Other than capacity though there wouldn't be any point as mine is quite low kms. The obvious option is a FS-ZE but then it would have to be imported. So, i know the largest engine I can put in on my P's would be +%15 capacity the largest engine the car came with (2.0L) and i did a search for 2.3L mazda engines. The L3-VE is very common, being in first gen mazda 3's so no importing. But I'm guessing then that id need a complete front cut, ecu etc. So how hard would this conversion be if possible and what sort of costs would i be looking at for a front cut? Two major problems i imagine would be CV fitment to hubs and engine mounting.. Is this idea too crazy?

[luk3333]

And if id bothered to look i would've realised someone had asked pretty much the same thing for a BA :/ Sounds like it'd be a mission.

[phildough]

Its not that hard to import a FS-ZE engine.
I have just bought 3 of them for the guys in Queensland from NZ.
If you want to know any more PM me.

[Clean_Cookie]

It would be cheaper to install a turbo, drive it around for 2 years and when you get caught pay Mr plod the remaining cash.

[TheMAN]

it'll cost way more to put the L3-VE in than to put a turbo on the car... cheapest and best option is the FS-ZE

the L3-VE requires completely different motor mounts, the gearbox you have won't fit, and you'll need to convert to a cable shifter... the exhaust also faces the wrong way... driveshafts will have to be custom as with bolting the engine into the car.... that's just the physical part of it... the electrics is even more crazy!


the general rule of thumb with swaps is... if it's a very different engine and it didn't belong in the car, it's probably too hard and expensive to do!

[smurfy]

Y no turbo for 2years ? :s P's?

[rodhog]

Just Hold off and wait. Time is on your side.

You might find life will throw something else at you in that time and you might not want to turbo it.

Clean_Cookie, Breakign the LAws in NSW = your a criminal. Meaning you will pay for the rest of your life. The Rent state will get you now, on the side of the road Court costs - Solicitor Fees - Community service (if your a real bad ass). It's not worth it ANY TIME.

Which is why Take your time. IMO spend more time on going out enjoying life then trying to Go fast.
You can't GO FAST IN NSW anymore. You want fast and fast car Go to the track it's the only safe way now. unless you want no licence - travel with Leppers on the train. Have to take $50 taxi rides to get places in one direction.

I admit I never obeyed the law completely but in my time. IT was different, you could hide, now soon as they see the number plate of a car owned by anyone who has a suspened licecne they check whos' driving. Just to make sure.

I say save your money for 2 years drive around if you still have car happy and want to turbo or do what ever, Do it.

IMO a turbo is better then a sawp is better. A FS - swap is like saying I should have bought a SP20. Because once you swap you devalue the cars resale period. A Turbo conversion can be easier to insure. Can be brought back to stock for any reason you need too.
Of course legally the Turbo conversion is never trully legal in NSW till it's EPA tested and no one does that on cost. FS-ZE is not legal either by the same standards but it's so minor no one looks in comparisson.

FS-ZE Is the best Option overall. Provides more power - provides a legal way of getting it sooner. It also makes the car more reasonable. Turbo conversion of the FP will proberly lead you down a path of more costs.

[luk3333]

On my red P's I've got to go for my greens. Rodhog, you clearly have experience. I want to get into track driving, unfortunately its expensive but patience. I would like to look into FS-ZE just out of interest, modifying a FP just feels like a waste..

[Cosmo Dude]

I'd consider trading for a BK MAXX. You'd start with a 2 litre and a lot of newer parts. Once you've got into track driving and have your suspension sorted you can think about more cubes and turbos.
Club level track days are not too expensive and you don't need things like special track tyres as you're only racing your self.

[phildough]

If you make your way to Brisbane you are more than welcome to take my car for a drive to convince you that the FS-ZE is the way to g.
My car passed QLD through transport as a simple engine swap, so no mod plates were required.
Which makes my car now an awesome 'P' plate mobile.

[TheMAN]

I would stay away from the mazda3, except for maybe the MPS (which is bloody too expensive, and no go for a P plater)... it's a lot harder to modify them... too many electronics, too much emissions crap

the Protege/Astina were among the last Mazdas that are fairly easy to modify
parts are hard to get for you aussies because nobody really cares about these cars down under, but rest assured, with money, you can import many awesome parts for the car from USA or Japan!

[Cosmo Dude]

Originally Posted by TheMAN

I would stay away from the mazda3, except for maybe the MPS (which is bloody too expensive, and no go for a P plater)... it's a lot harder to modify them... too many electronics, too much emissions crap

People used to say the same about EFI.

[rodhog]

If you want to do Track day work - everyones idea is great.

All have pros and CONs. But both FP or FS won't do much for you. a FS-ZE is good but unfortunatly your in NSW and unless you can get all the paper work and minor legalities right like Engineers slip, or someone to pass it just for Blue slip change engine numbers and then get it through that way. It could be a problem.

Many and any car can be put on a Track and Fun can be had. I was IMO amazed at how a somewhat well known Blue Mazda 2 DY went around Wakefeild park. Owning some what my own I too have learn how good when given some coil overs it can be even with a Autobox.

Depending on what track you go to. Power shoudl be the last thing you look at. My Mx- turbo in theroy should have gotten near the 1.10 like another Mx- 6. I had the power - I had suspension - (I do mean had shocks are near end life) BUt I never ever had the tyres. I used 6 year old hard rubber But IT WAS FUN. but it was slower by 10 -12 seconds a lap. And a simple moded Mazda 2 with good driver can do that time aroudn the same circuit because few circuits Reward huge amounts of power.

But I do think you should take it easy. Red -p's Put some coil-overs in GO to a track day. Spend your money on the fluids - Reasonable tyres you dont' need full semi slicks yet - But cheap tyres no a Good brand name mid to hi spec tyre - like a P7 upwars or a Potenza and you get longer wear and Great grip. Best money spent that way.

You spend on them get a taste see how it feels. Latter on you will decide on what area, to add to or like I said in few years you will say. I want a X car because it's RWD turbo or V8 etc.


EDIT - what I meant by FP or FS won't do much for you is They Won't light up your life. Same goes for a Maz3 with 2.0L and in some ways thew Sp models won't either. They improve driavability and feel more sport Yes but they ain't scare the crap out of you. But you have to start somewhere. We can't all be given VL turbos or SS V8s or have crazy parents who mod them for you. Plus trust me you don't want that.

[TheMAN]

Originally Posted by Cosmo Dude

People used to say the same about EFI.

yes, except the fact that it's clearly known now that the 3 has way more unnecessary electronics than a plain jane EFI car like the Protege/Astina had (which practically has just enough electronics to run the engine)... there's a CAN bus system, body computers, and other nonsense rubbish in that car... its ford engines aren't as robust as the mazda ones in the Protege/Astina either

[luk3333]

If i was i wasn't 12 hours away i would definitely take you up on that offer :P ill be up on the gold coast for schoolies for a week later in the year, maybe we could organise something then.

I checked the rta website and I'm sure an FS-ZE shouldn't require an engineers certificate. Have you done an engine swap in new before rodhog? Part of the reason for looking into an engine swap is because i really enjoy working on my car and learning how it goes, i would -hate- for my parent to build my car for me :P. An engine swap seems to me like a great milestone with worthwhile dollar for performance gains, but i can completely understand the balance of handling and power. So a set of coil overs before a new engine? more worth while?

Do you know of any suitable clubs to join, entry level and budget in mind? I'm under the impression rally has more regulations (for obvious reasons), but I'm going to check out the manning valley rally run by NNSW motorsport (i think thats right) on the 5th of May to see what its like. I think i like the idea of rally discipline more, the variable terrain and weather making it necessary to have versatile cars, tuning and driving.

Cosmo's point about EFI is valid i think, just a matter of time before someone tries it. Whether its worth it or not for the effort.. I saw in Fast Fours a Mazda 3 with a rotary and rwd conversion, so it can't be an impossible model to work with

[Clean_Cookie]

I would say rallying would be the most likely form of racing to require a tow truck home. (or drifting!) It can be cheap but I personally wouldn't be game without multiple cars... We went to the drags tonight. Cost $40 for 3 (or more if you wanted) runs. They had a ball. Highly recommended. Track day here was about $60 for half a day, maybe 45 minutes of track time in 15minute races. Also affordable and fun. More expensive than drags... Rallying I've got no idea but a day would be similar money as long as a tree doesn't kill you.


Come up from schoolies sit in my then turboed car, sit in phils. Feel the difference, you'll more than likely choose the na version. how come? Because I bet his will be better in traffic than mine, have similar power but useability will be better with a fsze. Maybe I should have bought one........oh no, a turbo ze!

[TheMAN]

Originally Posted by luk3333

If i was i wasn't 12 hours away i would definitely take you up on that offer :P ill be up on the gold coast for schoolies for a week later in the year, maybe we could organise something then.

I checked the rta website and I'm sure an FS-ZE shouldn't require an engineers certificate. Have you done an engine swap in new before rodhog? Part of the reason for looking into an engine swap is because i really enjoy working on my car and learning how it goes, i would -hate- for my parent to build my car for me :P. An engine swap seems to me like a great milestone with worthwhile dollar for performance gains, but i can completely understand the balance of handling and power. So a set of coil overs before a new engine? more worth while?

Do you know of any suitable clubs to join, entry level and budget in mind? I'm under the impression rally has more regulations (for obvious reasons), but I'm going to check out the manning valley rally run by NNSW motorsport (i think thats right) on the 5th of May to see what its like. I think i like the idea of rally discipline more, the variable terrain and weather making it necessary to have versatile cars, tuning and driving.

Cosmo's point about EFI is valid i think, just a matter of time before someone tries it. Whether its worth it or not for the effort.. I saw in Fast Fours a Mazda 3 with a rotary and rwd conversion, so it can't be an impossible model to work with

it's been tried... the 3 is just much harder to modify
just because it hasn't really been done much in oz, doesn't mean it hasn't been messed with in the US... for the most part, it's not quite as easy to do anything to a 3 compared to a Protege

I'm not saying all these negative things about the 3 because I fear electronics or new things... I'm saying this because that's reality... these cars aren't hondas, and you're not going to find too much aftermarket support for them, MPS or not

[luk3333]

I would say rallying would be the most likely form of racing to require a tow truck home. (or drifting!) It can be cheap but I personally wouldn't be game without multiple cars... We went to the drags tonight. Cost $40 for 3 (or more if you wanted) runs. They had a ball. Highly recommended. Track day here was about $60 for half a day, maybe 45 minutes of track time in 15minute races. Also affordable and fun. More expensive than drags... Rallying I've got no idea but a day would be similar money as long as a tree doesn't kill you.


Come up from schoolies sit in my then turboed car, sit in phils. Feel the difference, you'll more than likely choose the na version. how come? Because I bet his will be better in traffic than mine, have similar power but useability will be better with a fsze. Maybe I should have bought one........oh no, a turbo ze!

Is that a track day Eastern Creek? I don't think $60 for a half day would be too bad in damages. Any CAMS requirements? Can you hire helmets? I'd run the drag strip but it would be a bit sad seeing exactly how slow the 1.8 is in a straight line lol.

I like the idea of turbo, but I think a ZE would be a more usable as you said, and less work to achieve, less to break. I can't imagine the FS internals would hold up against too much boost. Not that i'm turning down your offer, we'll have to organise it when i'm up there :P.

[phunkdust]

If you're stuck on your Ps, ditch the Astina and pick up a Fiesta XR4. Pretty much the most (stock) NA fun you can have on P plates, save for something like a NSX, cammed Hemi or some stonking great V8. They are not too expensive these days either in good nick. Cheap to run, sweet suspension and handling. It's like an overexcited little terrier with a mildly tuned 2.0L donk shoved up it's arse. They lend themselves to mild mods down the track too (Cosworth intake, anyone?)

[Clean_Cookie]

That was at lakeside, casual day, i.e. just racing against yourself. Need long pants shirt and shoes and your own helmet which I think must be adr approved? I got one for as little as $180 on special. Add a half a tank of fuel.and some serious wear on your tyres that's about it. Loads of fun! I saw yesterday when in derbs turbo, exactly why p platers aren't allowed turbos. Only boosted it twice for 30 seconds and I had the biggest grin on my face, but wow seriously, get more experience before you do it. (Btw I'm expecting double the power at the wheels once turboed)

IMHO, buy coilovers, LSD, braces, good tyres, new bushes, adjustable end links, rear swaybar, upgrade the brakes, THEN upgrade the power. Do it the other way and chances you won't get much out of the car or destroy yourself while trying.